CNG e-sale wins! Share ‘em!

[SimonW]

Well, as I said, if you have a big auction (or a big project, if you want to put it that way) every two months, there isn't any "good time" to take a few days off as there is always a lot to do (getting consignments, cataloging, shipping, etc.).

And, frankly, I don't understand why you complain about their shipping costs as everything is clearly listed on their website and in their terms.

Anyway, you seem to be upset and I won't continue the discussion. I hope you still enjoy the coins and am looking forward to seeing them online.

Edited August 3, 2022 by SimonW

[Prieure de Sion]

1 minute ago, SimonW said:

And, frankly, I don't understand why you complain about their shipping costs as everything is clearly listed on their website and in their terms.

They listed on their website, that the 90 Euro Shipping and Insurance is not the full Shipping Cost - but FedEx will also charge a fee and then delivery and payment will cost another fee? Where does it say that? Can you show me on the website?

It's nice that you're taking the company's side - for whatever reason - even though deficiencies are obvious.

But if I write on my website - shipping costs to the USA 25 euros and my customers pay the 25 euros. And then they have to pay another 25 euros in shipping costs (I'm not talking about tax!) - then my customers would - rightly (!) - write to me to ask what that's all about! On my website it says 25 Euro shipping costs to the USA and now it has become a total of 50 Euro shipping costs. Of course my customers would complain. And yes, you are right - a discussion is pointless - because if you don't understand that. But then I hope that you will buy something from me. I'd like to see if something costs 50 euros and you end up paying 100 euros - whether you wouldn't complain.

[SimonW]

Quote

Taxes levied abroad, e.g. customs fees and taxes, as well as shipping costs and insurance premiums incurred due to shipment, shall be borne in full by the buyer.

From their terms. What Fedex charged you are customs clearance fees. The auction house has nothing to do with that. 

[Prieure de Sion]

1 hour ago, SimonW said:

From their terms. What Fedex charged you are customs clearance fees. The auction house has nothing to do with that. 

Custom Fees = Zollgebühren (in German) 

Read it correct!

The Text is - buyer must pay complete:
a) Shipping Costs
b) Insurance
c) Taxes and Custom Fees

a) i have paid 65 Euro to Leu
b) I have paid 26 Euro to Leu

c) yes I have paid more then 400 Euro to taxes and custom fees to the German Government. That is nothing LEU can do. And then I habe pay round about 100 Euro extra to FedEx - and this are not alone fees because the German tax - there are one position of FedEx Service fees ... and what's about the 20 Euro today - this are fees that the driver will take the money - nothing about taxes fees.

In Germany, this is often called "hidden costs".

But hey - you're a great customer. As I said - please order something from me - I'll write 50 euros on the bill. And if you have to pay 100 euros - you don't complain and think that's good. I can also write in the terms and conditions it costs so and so much plus costs that I can't tell you today.

That way, every shipment becomes a surprise package for my customers. Let's see what it will cost in the end today.

Sorry - we have two different ways of thinking. If I say it costs 20 euros to the USA - then my customers pay 20 euros for shipping (I'm not talking about tax). 

A customer from Australia ordered something. He paid 45 euros for shipping. I finished the shipping today. Unfortunately, the price was more expensive today - it cost me 57 euros. My bad luck. On my webpage it says 45 euros to Australia, the customer paid 45 euros. He won't pay any more. 

But that's a matter of opinion. You can write anything in the terms. It costs X .... and all the costs that we don't know and suspect and please pay everything - you can pass everything on to the customer. That may be 100% legally correct. Legally.

But I don't have to like it - do I?

 

You see it from the point of view of a businessman. Who perhaps likes everything that is legal. I see it more critically from both points of view - because I buy privately and also have a company. And that's the end of the discussion for me.

 

Edit 03.08 / 19:04
In all fairness, however, I must add something that should not go unmentioned! Companies like Leu have a certain responsibility - also towards their employees. In the end, a good profit has to be made - in order to pay the people who in turn feed their families with it. 

I am actually an artist (writer) and a "Privatier". My shop is actually a hobby. I don't have to earn anything from it, nor do I have employees. I can buy a coin for 100 euros and sell it for 100 euros and nothing happens. I don't have to worry about profit - I actually do it for the sheer joy of it - because this gives me a chance for many coins to pass through my hands. 

Of course, I can talk loosely - I don't have the constraints that a company with employees has. I have to admit that.

 

 

 

Edited August 3, 2022 by Prieure de Sion

[Etcherdude]

I won this owl at CNG today, I bought it for the Athena!

[Prieure de Sion]

29 minutes ago, Etcherdude said:

I won this owl at CNG today, I bought it for the Athena!

Good Idea - back to the topic.

Fine coin! I bit on an Gordianus Denarius ... will see I get this coin or not. Let me see.

 

Fine coin! 🙂 ... congratulation for your won!

Edited August 3, 2022 by Prieure de Sion

[Prieure de Sion]

Gordian III. AD 238-244. AR Denarius (21.5mm, 2.76 g, 12h). Rome mint, 4th officina. 7th emission, mid AD 240. Laureate, draped, and cuirassed bust right / Salus standing right, feeding snake held in arms. RIC IV 129A; RSC 325. In NGC encapsulation 5748879-011, graded Ch AU, Strike: 5/5, Surface: 4/5.

 

Yeah... I won my Gordianus too - today at CNG. I am curious. This is my first experience with CNG. I'll let myself be surprised.

[TheTrachyEnjoyer]

How about CNG esale losses? 🙈

I bid $400

[Restitutor]

Ended up not bidding in this one as I blew my budget on the Leu auction, but anyone notice the two Sevies that went for pretty extraordinary prices? Admittedly they are both quite beautiful and so can't fault someone for paying these prices, but was just surprised as I never knew Sevs to be so expensive! Hopefully not the start of a trend, always felt his coins flew a bit under the radar for the usual high quality they come in  🙇‍♂️

Don't have an example of the first, but do of the second:

Severus Alexander, 222-235. Denarius (Silver, 20 mm, 3.46 g, 6 h), Rome, 232. IMP ALEXANDER PIVS AVG Laureate head of Severus Alexander to right, with slight drapery on his left shoulder. Rev. PROVIDENTIA AVG Providentia standing front, head to left, holding grain ears over modius in her right hand and cornucopiae in her left. BMC 875. Cohen 501 var. (bust draped). RIC 250.

[Curtis JJ]

Re: @Restitutor, I'd say the broad flan (and centering) drove the price up (it's why I was watching it). That's what makes it really stand out from 1,000 other mint state Sev Alex denari. Coins with that quality ... sky's the limit!

[DonnaML]

On 8/2/2022 at 11:54 PM, SimonW said:

How dare they taking a few days off? 🙂

But seriously, do you think that there is ever a "good time" to take some days off if you're running multiple auctions a year? All this is complaining on a very high level. Give them a break!

Wow. You completely missed my point, and (I believe) @Prieure de Sion's. The customer service manager of Leu can take all the vacations she wants. But it would be completely unprofessional for the company itself, especially if (as in this case) its office remains open for business, to leave her email account unmonitored -- particularly during the period immediately after the lots have been sent out to buyers, given the near-certainty that issues like mine (an incorrectly-addressed package) would arise. As it turned out, someone else at Leu was actually monitoring her email -- even though her rather poorly-phrased vacation response made no mention of that fact, stating only that she would not be checking her email and people should call Leu's office to get in touch with anyone. Which I rightfully found annoying, for the reasons I stated above.

[SimonW]

@DonnaML the email wording was unfortunate and obviously wrong as in fact someone was monitoring her email.

Anyway, I wasn't refering to that but rather to your very sarcastic and other comments, complaining on how it's possible to take them up to 10 days to ship (it proved to be 5 days only in your case) and how does anybody dare going on vacation a week after their auction. When did the world become so unreasonably impatient? The coins have survived for centuries without you, they will make it another week or two, don't worry.

Edited August 4, 2022 by SimonW

[DonnaML]

1 hour ago, SimonW said:

@DonnaML the email wording was unfortunate and obviously wrong as in fact someone was monitoring her email.

Anyway, I wasn't refering to that but rather to your very sarcastic and other comments, complaining on how it's possible to take them up to 10 days to ship (it proved to be 5 days only in your case) and how does anybody dare going on vacation a week after their auction. When did the world become so unreasonably impatient? The coins have survived for centuries without you, they will make it another week or two, don't worry.

You are once again grossly misrepresenting what I said. I defy you to quote anything resembling your characterization. I'd like to think that you're not deliberately lying, but simply didn't bother looking at my actual words. You owe me a serious apology.

[SimonW]

1 hour ago, DonnaML said:

You are once again grossly misrepresenting what I said. I defy you to quote anything resembling your characterization.

How so? What I said didn't refer exclusively to your comment, but here's yours that I had in mind.

On 7/28/2022 at 10:06 PM, DonnaML said:

Other large auction houses seem to manage without taking 10 business days. It all depends on how many resources they devote to the process in terms of staffing, etc.  If it's just one little old lady sitting in Winterthur, writing out all the addresses by herself, wrapping the coins, licking all the stamps and envelopes, and then making multiple trips to the local post office using the basket on her walker, then it's understandable.

Wasn't that a sarcastic comment, complaining about how long it takes them to ship?

1 hour ago, DonnaML said:

I'd like to think that you're not deliberately lying, but simply didn't bother looking at my actual words.

I'll return that: I'd like to think that you're not deliberately lying, but simply didn't remember your actual words.

Edited August 4, 2022 by SimonW

[Restitutor]

11 hours ago, Curtis JJ said:

Re: @Restitutor, I'd say the broad flan (and centering) drove the price up (it's why I was watching it). That's what makes it really stand out from 1,000 other mint state Sev Alex denari. Coins with that quality ... sky's the limit!

Great point! It is funny how something so small makes such a huge difference. It’s only 0.5mm larger than mine but the more I stare at it the prettier it looks in comparison! Hopefully someone here snagged it up so we get to see more of it 🙏

[kirispupis]

7 hours ago, DonnaML said:

Wow. You completely missed my point, and (I believe) @Prieure de Sion's. The customer service manager of Leu can take all the vacations she wants. But it would be completely unprofessional for the company itself, especially if (as in this case) its office remains open for business, to leave her email account unmonitored -- particularly during the period immediately after the lots have been sent out to buyers, given the near-certainty that issues like mine (an incorrectly-addressed package) would arise. As it turned out, someone else at Leu was actually monitoring her email -- even though her rather poorly-phrased vacation response made no mention of that fact, stating only that she would not be checking her email and people should call Leu's office to get in touch with anyone. Which I rightfully found annoying, for the reasons I stated above.

FWIW, I have a love-hate relationship with Leu. They list a tremendous number of coins, and there's usually a few that I really want. Yes, they do take awhile to respond to emails (though they did respond quickly to an issue I had where their shipment said my coins were going to WA, Australia instead of WA, USA). They also take a long time to ship. Those things I can live with. I'm less pleased that their auction format invites sniping and am still bitter about a coin where I placed a bid for 750 CHF several days before and lost to a last minute 752 CHF bid. I chose not to participate in their last auction as a consequence.

That being said, if you do put up with those things, you can obtain some very nice coins. Some of my most intriguing coins come from them, and I'm sure I'll suck it in and participate in their future auctions. It's inevitable that they'll list something I really want someday.

[NewStyleKing]

No matter what I buy coin, antiquities etc I always add 1/3 rd at least! That way I have NEVER felt done!  Now that the lack of NewStyles have caused me to become a non-collector  i feel like if you aint got the money don't indulge, cos indulging is what coin collecting is!!  Its not vital, you can't eat it  and the only useful thing is to off load it on another, hopefully with a good profit !!  And I'm not an investor!

Without new NewStyles my research base has died!  Look how many NewStyles there are on the market, practically bugger all!  Old Styles- enough to build another Parthenon! at least!

 

NSK=John

[John Conduitt]

I wonder how much consideration auction houses put into their choice of shipper. Do they get a better deal from FedEx, who then push more cost onto the recipient?

I don't subscribe to the 'it's in the terms and conditions' view. Logically, it makes sense, but it's a well-used trick in many industries. You have to do quite a bit of preparation to keep on top of all the permutations - how much will shipping be if I win one coin, or ten? At what value? Will I pay additional fees? Will I still be able to pay by credit card if I place one more bid, given shipping is included in that threshold?

There's nothing stopping auction houses being completely transparent. Most costs can be calculated automatically with minimal data. Indeed, some give you a running total of what you've spent including fees during the auction, and the total of your upcoming bids. There's nothing stopping them adding shipping to that, just as they do on VCoins without manual intervention.

CNG ship all coins for UK customers to their UK office, so there is never any doubt about cost. They charge the total (including all taxes) up front, with no fear of shipper fees. How does it work if you're not in a country with a CNG office?

As for taking holiday after an auction - fine, if there's cover. But anyone who works in a finance role will be familiar with de facto holiday bans during month end and year end. I imagine many jobs have similar restrictions at peak times. It's also compulsory for me to take holiday for the whole Christmas week, whether I want to or not, because it's a quiet time.

[Restitutor]

Happily I can report that the USPS lady dropped off my Leu coins safe and sound today! I usually dislike group photos as each coin has their own peculiarities that demand unique lighting situations and the details aren't nearly as crisp, but this is the largest haul of coins I've ever bought at once (and I doubt that'll ever change) so wanted to take a group shot!

Y'all will have to forgive me though, the two Probus coins I flipped around when taking photos of the reverse and just really liked the lighting for the obverse ones and couldn't get it replicated again. 

Fingers crossed everyone starts getting their wins soon as well 🙂 Now the process of individual photography sessions begins... 

[Dwarf]

Those additional cost on top of shipping

13 minutes ago, John Conduitt said:

How does it work if you're not in a country with a CNG office?

The carrier charges you for getting your goods through customs and he collects taxes/customs.
German post charges around 10 Euro, Fedex around 40 Euro.
This is fair as it saves the customer from battling with customs papers. Providing taxes are correct, which unfortunately many times is not the case. And the difference between 7% and 19% import sales tax can be quite some money.

But this is neither the fault of the seller nor the carrier. The buyer may arrange to do all the paper work himself - in this case the carrier will deliver the goods to the nearest customs office.

As I knew those procedures some decades ago I am very happy with the current situation, pay the carrier, and refrain from seller-bashing

Regards
Klaus

who just got a shipment from Morton and Eden, done by Fedex - with NO ancient coins but a nice early Taler, minted in Joachimsthal, thus giving the denomination its name

[Mucius Scaevola]

Leu isn't responsible for money charged by FedEx. They list their shipping prices as they are (at least for me]. I agree that they could need more employees, but this would affect the buyers premium for sure, which is pretty low compared to other big names. They say 10 days because you never know what could happen. Their shipping time is pretty much the same as for every other auction house.

Edited August 4, 2022 by Mucius Scaevola

[Etcherdude]

That group of Roman denarii has some truly beautiful coins @Restitutor.

Congrats!

[robinjojo]

4 hours ago, Dwarf said:

Those additional cost on top of shipping

The carrier charges you for getting your goods through customs and he collects taxes/customs.
German post charges around 10 Euro, Fedex around 40 Euro.
This is fair as it saves the customer from battling with customs papers. Providing taxes are correct, which unfortunately many times is not the case. And the difference between 7% and 19% import sales tax can be quite some money.

But this is neither the fault of the seller nor the carrier. The buyer may arrange to do all the paper work himself - in this case the carrier will deliver the goods to the nearest customs office.

As I knew those procedures some decades ago I am very happy with the current situation, pay the carrier, and refrain from seller-bashing

Regards
Klaus

who just got a shipment from Morton and Eden, done by Fedex - with NO ancient coins but a nice early Taler, minted in Joachimsthal, thus giving the denomination its name

That's a beautiful Joachimsthal taler, a wonderful and historically important coin.

Here are my two examples.

Bohemia, Schlick, taler, Joachimsthal Mint, 1520-1525, D 8141.  Purchased from Karl Stephens.

28.6 grams

 

Bohemia, Schlick taler, Joachimsthal Mint, 1526, D 8146.  Purchased from World-wide Coins of California.

28.7 grams

Edited August 4, 2022 by robinjojo

[DonnaML]

10 hours ago, SimonW said:

How so? What I said didn't refer exclusively to your comment, but here's yours that I had in mind.

Wasn't that a sarcastic comment, complaining about how long it takes them to ship?

I'll return that: I'd like to think that you're not deliberately lying, but simply didn't remember your actual words.

@SimonW, the last thing I want is to get into some sort of prolonged argument with you or anyone else.  I actually hate arguing on the Internet, contrary to what some might assume from the fact that I practiced law for a long time!  Especially here, in a forum that was formed in large part to escape the contentiousness that recently typified the other place. So I apologize for the harshness of my response to your characterization of my comments.  Please try to understand that I find being inaccurately accused of something to be extremely upsetting. I think most people here would agree that I am not someone who constantly complains about sellers or anything else, and I hate the idea that anyone would think that's who I am.

In fact, the comment you quote wasn't a complaint, and certainly wasn't intended to be "sarcastic." I was trying to make the point, in the form of a hyperbolic joke about a little old lady in Winterthur -- a joke which some people, at least, thought was funny! -- that the reasonableness of a possible 10-day wait for shipping depends on how many employees Leu has devoting their time to the task of sending packages out. Please keep in mind that I made this comment on Wed. July 27,  before I learned on Friday July 29 that the package had been shipped out, and that their customer service employee had gone on vacation (which I learned from an automated response to my inquiry that day about the package having an incorrect address).  So the comment you quote had nothing whatsoever to do with the vacation issue. Please also keep in mind that my original comment was simply a question about whether Leu really does take 10 days to ship, since I had never made a purchase from Leu before. As it turned out, they shipped the package on July 29, only four days after notifying me on July 25 that it might take 10 days. So that inquiry became moot. 

Also, I never said anything remotely supporting the idea that I complained that "how does anybody dare going on vacation a week after their auction." I think it's terribly unfair for you to keep making that accusation. As I've explained three times now, my only complaint regarding the vacation, when I learned of it on July 29, concerned the customer service person's email account apparently (according to her response) being left unmonitored while she was away. I didn't say a single word complaining about the vacation itself. And I assure you that as an employee myself for more than 35 years before I retired, I fully support the concept of vacations!  But if I wasn't responding to emails myself during a vacation, I always made sure that someone else was available to cover for me if anything came up while I was away. It's the responsible thing to do for anyone who works in a firm with more than one employee, whether one's business is auctioning coins or practicing law.  In any event, as you know, her email was in fact being monitored, so that issue turned out to be moot as well.

In other words, both as to the time taken to ship, and as to monitoring emails to customer service during an employee vacation, what Leu actually did was far more customer-friendly than their cautionary words suggested.  In this case, the truism that "actions speak louder than words" certainly applies. But there was nothing untoward about my raising questions about those words, before the actions were actually taken.

I think I've said everything I have to say, and have no wish to continue any dispute with you.

 

Edited August 4, 2022 by DonnaML

[Romancollector]

Great pickups Restitutor, especially the Hadrian denarii and Probus temple ant!

Since we're sharing Leu pickups...here are two of mine.

BI Antoninianus of Carus

AE Reduced follis of Constantine I - rev SARMATIA DEVICTA