CNG e-sale wins! Share ‘em!

[velarfricative]

Since we're talking about Leu, I finally managed to get this nice Antimachos I elephant bronze. Ex-Triton and at a very reasonable price compared to the usual Leu hammers.

[Restitutor]

12 hours ago, Romancollector said:

Wow....that is thorough and indeed confirms what I suspected! 

You could very well be right about the desirability of the lots, but I don't think that is necessarily true for every piece. I suspect that the significant delay and auction fatigue (due to its length) could also have contributed. I won a denarius of Septimius, an antoninianus of Philip, an antoninianus of Carus, a follis of Constantine I and a follis of Crispus. Perhaps these are not considered as desirable as 1st or 2nd-century material, but they are still EF coins which usually carry a premium. I certainly paid less for each than other examples of the same grade at different venues. 

Here I was thinking that I was successful with 5 coins and you won 9 🤣

Can't wait to see them, those sound excellent! 😍 And yeah I wasn't planning on going for 9 but given the prices it was hard to pass up. Sadly it pretty much blew my entire budget for the rest of the year so this will probably be it, but think it was worth it! 

[Restitutor]

10 hours ago, DonnaML said:

I don't really believe that one can draw any particular conclusions from the lower average of prices realized vs. estimates in Auction 21 as compared to Auctions 19 and 20 a couple of days earlier. I suspect it's primarily a function of Auction 21 consisting mostly of Imperial coins, largely from the 3rd century and later. It's no surprise at all to me that they didn't sell for a high amount over the estimates. I saw a whole lot of Gallienus coins (for example) selling for 20 or 30 CHF apiece -- all except for the rarer types from the Zoo and Legionary Series.

Hey Donna - that's a great point, and TBH I just didn't have the time yesterday to incorporate the profile of coin categories (threw these together really quickly between work calls). My interest is extremely piqued by this so I'm going to see if there's any way to scrape the data to get that and create some new views. Could then compare like-for-like between the categories. 

[NewStyleKing]

All I know is that NEWSTYLES  aint as common as they used to be ( and were rarely common),no matter what dealer/auction house. E-bay....grossly over priced, I will not pay £1000  for a £300 coin! And these coins aint FRESH!  Dear Bulgarian /Turkish coin smugglers...I am waiting!!!!!

 

NSK=John

 

 

[DonnaML]

7 hours ago, Restitutor said:

Hey Donna - that's a great point, and TBH I just didn't have the time yesterday to incorporate the profile of coin categories (threw these together really quickly between work calls). My interest is extremely piqued by this so I'm going to see if there's any way to scrape the data to get that and create some new views. Could then compare like-for-like between the categories. 

Thank you. But instead of comparing prices of auctions only a couple of days apart, which I think is really too close together to establish any kind of meaningful recent trend, might it not be more productive to take the three recent Leu auctions as a single entity, and compare them to a Leu auction or auctions from several months ago?

[KenDorney]

21 hours ago, Restitutor said:

This chart compares total hammer price (in millions CHF) in the columns (dark blue is the starting price, light blue is the increase from start). The line chart shows the percent increase from start price to hammer price.

I know a lot of people love crunching numbers but it's difficult to really interpret much by these graphs (no offense intended) as they are too generalized. A lot can contribute to hammer prices and overall results, but perhaps what matters most is what exactly is being offered in any particular sale.  General and generic lower to mid grade coins sell for less, rarer and higher grade for more.  To get a real interpretation one would have to dig in deep to the data to see what types in what grades were offered and trend that.  That's way too much effort of course.

[DonnaML]

I received an email from Leu Numismatik on Monday acknowledging receipt of payment for the lots I won, and stating "Your order will be processed in short order. You will receive the tracking number of the shipment within the next 10 working days."  I've never bought anything from Leu before, and I'm wondering if I should really expect them to take that long before shipping out my coins, and if such a long delay between payment and shipping is normal for that auction house. In my experience with other houses, coins are usually shipped within a few days of payment.

[Prieure de Sion]

8 minutes ago, DonnaML said:

I received an email from Leu Numismatik on Monday acknowledging receipt of payment for the lots I won, and stating "Your order will be processed in short order. You will receive the tracking number of the shipment within the next 10 working days."  I've never bought anything from Leu before, and I'm wondering if I should really expect them to take that long before shipping out my coins, and if such a long delay between payment and shipping is normal for that auction house. In my experience with other houses, coins are usually shipped within a few days of payment.

Don't worry. You are not alone. My friend and I are also still waiting for a shipping confirmation. Funny - this is exactly what we were talking about today via email.

I transferred the money directly on the first day when I got the invoice. Since I transferred with WISE, Leu had the money on their account within a few seconds. Ok, they also confirmed the receipt of payment to me immediately with the words "we will inform you when the goods are shipped". Since then I have heard nothing more.

I have no fear. Leu is a very serious company!

But I find it "strange" when I get an email asking me to pay the bill very quickly within 10 days. Leu is in a hurry to pay. I have NOTHING against that! I understand that - the sellers want to have their money too. I am absolutely okay with it. But if you put this standard to the customers - please pay immediately and quickly! Then you should also apply this standard to yourself. And if the customer has paid quickly - also ship quickly itself (especially since Leu charges a princely surcharge for the shipping service).

This is my personal opinion.

 

[Romancollector]

Having purchased from them before, I can attest that they don't ship their coins right away. I paid for FedEx shipping, but I don't think this determines how quickly they ship your lots; it only determines how quickly you will receive them from the ship date. I also received a message confirming that my lots will be shipped in 10 business days..... 😒

[Curtis JJ]

Here's a group photo of my "Lindgren Exhibit," including 8 coins from the Henry Clay Lindgren Collection, at least 5 of them illustrated in his books. All but one coin came from recent CNG e-Auctions (and even the eighth coin -- the bright, coppery one at bottom -- came from a previous CNG e-Auction years before I bought it!).

The two volumes shown in the photo (Lindgren II [1989], Europe, and Lindgren III [1993], "more") were bought elsewhere, but I did just win a copy of Lindgren I (w/ Kovacs, 1985, Asia Minor, the hard one to find) from the last CNG e-Auction (along with a Konvolut of 15 other books!). They don't arrive until tomorrow, so I just showed my printout of the listing. It wasn't a bargain ($120 + fees is basically retail), but I got impatient. (Incidentally, my Lindgren III is a signed & inscribed copy to Mark Millman, San Francisco, 1996 -- all I know is Millman was a California ANA member in 1992 & 1995 -- anyone know him?)

Below is my favorite Lindgren, an AE Hemiassarion (18mm, 3.85 g, 12h) of Domitian from Cilicia, Anazarbus, dated CY 112 (AD 93/4). The reason it's my favorite is, in part, because it's the only coin I know to be illustrated in two Lindgren Vols (Lindgren & Kovacs [1985] 2192, corr. = Lindgren III [1993] 773, corr. again [!]) and, in fact, described four times (it's also in the Errata for each volume)! It appears Rupert Ziegler first figured out it was Domitian of Anazarbus, not Caligula from Caesarea or Irenopolis, and published it in his volume on Anazarbus (Ziegler [1993] 73.3, Vs1/Rs2). The same coin was also published in two (!) RPC volumes, plus two Supplements (and, of course, RPC Online), the original having been officially recanted in RPC Supplement 1 in 1998 (RPC I [1992] 5456 [Caligula, later deleted] = RPC II [1998] 1750 = cited in RPC Suppl. 1 [1998] & Consolidated Suppl. 1-3 [2015])! 

It may have been cited elsewhere (probably has been), but those are the major ones. Some of my favorite coins to collect are those involved in debate, with errors, corrections, and disagreements. (Hence I like certain Parthian and Cappadocian types -- I'll post some of those disputed types elsewhere!)

That's the photo from CNG EA 510 (23 Feb 2022), Lot 419. Also ex-MDA Collection (an interesting one with lots of great RPC from Cilicia). I was also glad that CNG didn't provide a lot of that provenance/publication detail, which left a lot more for me to research. (And, in order to limit my spending, I try to only bid on coins if I think I know something about the provenance that's not cataloged.)

Another nice thing: Under $100 including fees. (Most of the others were even cheaper, certainly much cheaper on average; I got 5 in one group for ~$20 each!).

Edited July 28, 2022 by Curtis JJ

[Restitutor]

On 7/27/2022 at 3:13 PM, Prieure de Sion said:

Don't worry. You are not alone. My friend and I are also still waiting for a shipping confirmation. Funny - this is exactly what we were talking about today via email.

I transferred the money directly on the first day when I got the invoice. Since I transferred with WISE, Leu had the money on their account within a few seconds. Ok, they also confirmed the receipt of payment to me immediately with the words "we will inform you when the goods are shipped". Since then I have heard nothing more.

I have no fear. Leu is a very serious company!

But I find it "strange" when I get an email asking me to pay the bill very quickly within 10 days. Leu is in a hurry to pay. I have NOTHING against that! I understand that - the sellers want to have their money too. I am absolutely okay with it. But if you put this standard to the customers - please pay immediately and quickly! Then you should also apply this standard to yourself. And if the customer has paid quickly - also ship quickly itself (especially since Leu charges a princely surcharge for the shipping service).

This is my personal opinion.

 

Paid for my coins on Friday, received confirmation of shipping this morning 8am EST! Now the daily tracker refresh begins, lol. Hopefully you and @DonnaML get your shipping confirmation soon! 

[Valentinian]

On 7/27/2022 at 11:58 AM, DonnaML said:

"Your order will be processed in short order. You will receive the tracking number of the shipment within the next 10 working days."  I've never bought anything from Leu before, and I'm wondering if I should really expect them to take that long before shipping out my coins,

I wonder how a coin firm can sell about 5000 lots to over 1000 bidders and assemble and mail the wins rapidly. How long would it take you to pack up 500 packages? (Savoca is amazingly rapid in that regard). I pay with Wise the same day and the last two times I won from Leu it took 27 days (over Christmas) and 18 days to get the coins to Oregon. (I keep track of the dates coins arrive.)

[DonnaML]

36 minutes ago, Valentinian said:

I wonder how a coin firm can sell about 5000 lots to over 1000 bidders and assemble and mail the wins rapidly. How long would it take you to pack up 500 packages? (Savoca is amazingly rapid in that regard). I pay with Wise the same day and the last two times I won from Leu it took 27 days (over Christmas) and 18 days to get the coins to Oregon. (I keep track of the dates coins arrive.)

Other large auction houses seem to manage without taking 10 business days. It all depends on how many resources they devote to the process in terms of staffing, etc.  If it's just one little old lady sitting in Winterthur, writing out all the addresses by herself, wrapping the coins, licking all the stamps and envelopes, and then making multiple trips to the local post office using the basket on her walker, then it's understandable. If they have 20 people doing the work and the process is largely computerized, it's a different story.  

Edited July 28, 2022 by DonnaML

[DonnaML]

I received an email this morning notifying me that my coins from Leu are being sent out via FedEx today. Apparently, the little old lady in Winterthur is ahead of schedule. Unfortunately, however, she got my address slightly wrong -- the apartment number is incorrect -- so I had to write to her to tell her to retrieve the package and do it over.

[DonnaML]

12 minutes ago, DonnaML said:

I received an email this morning notifying me that my coins from Leu are being sent out via FedEx today. Apparently, the little old lady in Winterthur is ahead of schedule. Unfortunately, however, she got my address slightly wrong -- the apartment number is incorrect -- so I had to write to her to tell her to retrieve the package and do it over.

Well, all kidding aside, this is annoying. I received the following response to my email notifying Leu that they gave FedEx the wrong apartment number (even though it's correctly listed in my "My Leu" profile):

Grüezi!

Vielen Dank für Ihre Nachricht. Ich bin bis und mit 15. August abwesend und werde meine E-Mails während dieser Zeit nicht lesen. Das Büro ist in dieser Zeit weiterhin geöffnet. Für Terminanfragen, Einlieferungen oder bei dringenden Fragen zu Ihren Bestellungen erreichen Sie uns telefonisch unter +41 52 214 11 10.

Herzliche Grüsse

* * *

Good day!

Thank you for your message. I will be out of office until 15th August and will not read my emails during this time. The office is still open. For appointment requests, consignments, or in urgent matters regarding your orders, please call us at +41 52 214 11 10.

Kind regards

***

So I have to make a long-distance phone call on Monday to let Leu know about its mistake, because there's literally nobody at Leu's office reachable by email between now and August 15? That seems remarkably unprofessional to me!

[Restitutor]

36 minutes ago, DonnaML said:

Well, all kidding aside, this is annoying. I received the following response to my email notifying Leu that they gave FedEx the wrong apartment number (even though it's correctly listed in my "My Leu" profile):

Grüezi!

Vielen Dank für Ihre Nachricht. Ich bin bis und mit 15. August abwesend und werde meine E-Mails während dieser Zeit nicht lesen. Das Büro ist in dieser Zeit weiterhin geöffnet. Für Terminanfragen, Einlieferungen oder bei dringenden Fragen zu Ihren Bestellungen erreichen Sie uns telefonisch unter +41 52 214 11 10.

Herzliche Grüsse

* * *

Good day!

Thank you for your message. I will be out of office until 15th August and will not read my emails during this time. The office is still open. For appointment requests, consignments, or in urgent matters regarding your orders, please call us at +41 52 214 11 10.

Kind regards

***

So I have to make a long-distance phone call on Monday to let Leu know about its mistake, because there's literally nobody at Leu's office reachable by email between now and August 15? That seems remarkably unprofessional to me!

The woes of the August European holiday season. Makes me wonder why they pushed the auction back as late as they did given this overlap… know they had technical issues but even pushing up by a week would have prevented a situation like this I imagine. Hopefully this gets resolved quickly and easily for you! 

[Prieure de Sion]

17 hours ago, DonnaML said:

So I have to make a long-distance phone call on Monday to let Leu know about its mistake, because there's literally nobody at Leu's office reachable by email between now and August 15? That seems remarkably unprofessional to me!

Let me summarise.

You're doing one of the biggest auctions with thousands of items over four days with customers worldwide. You know that you should send this mass of goods quickly after the auction. You know that with this amount, there are always questions and problems to be solved afterwards. 

But although this is actually logical, you go on holiday after the auction. A small team takes care of the shipping. It is not possible that someone answers your support emails as a holiday replacement? Customers from all over the world have to make expensive phone calls?

That is really "unfortunate" ...

[DonnaML]

It's clear that Fedex has my correct apartment number in their computer system, together with my usual delivery instructions. Since the package as sent out by Leu actually has the correct apartment building address on it, even though the specific apartment number itself is missing, I've decided to gamble that the package is going to be delivered to me, and not to try to telephone Leu in Switzerland.  It's just too annoying to have to pay for a long distance phone call to some unknown person who may or may not be fluent in English, and, at this point, would probably not be able to do very much anyway. (Have you ever tried to reach a live human being at Federal Express? Good luck!) I will report on the outcome. And will certainly register a complaint about how this was handled, after the customer service person at Leu returns from her vacation.

Edited August 1, 2022 by DonnaML

[robinjojo]

I had a package from the UK that was shipped once with the wrong zip code.  The package ended up bouncing back and forth between two post offices in Missouri, sort like a tennis match on the tracking.  I was able to get the email addresses of the two postmasters, sent them messages advising them of the problem and providing the correct zip code.  Fortunately a very nice postmaster made the correction and the package arrived shortly thereafter.  There are some very nice accommodating folks at the USPS.

[DonnaML]

On 8/1/2022 at 11:48 AM, DonnaML said:

It's clear that Fedex has my correct apartment number in their computer system, together with my usual delivery instructions. Since the package as sent out by Leu actually has the correct apartment building address on it, even though the specific apartment number itself is missing, I've decided to gamble that the package is going to be delivered to me, and not to try to telephone Leu in Switzerland.  It's just too annoying to have to pay for a long distance phone call to some unknown person who may or may not be fluent in English, and, at this point, would probably not be able to do very much anyway. (Have you ever tried to reach a live human being at Federal Express? Good luck!) I will report on the outcome. And will certainly register a complaint about how this was handled, after the customer service person at Leu returns from her vacation.

It seems that Leu had someone monitoring its customer service email inbox after all, because I received this message this morning:

Dear Ms. -----

I contacted Fedex and let them know about the mistake. They assured me that the address is now correct. Sorry for the inconvenience and I congratulate you again on you’re purchases!

Best wishes and kind regards from Winterthur

Konstantin Bosshard

***

I am relieved! Fedex tracking indicates that the package is currently in Memphis, TN, so perhaps I will receive it by the end of this week.

 

Edited August 2, 2022 by DonnaML

[SimonW]

On 7/30/2022 at 11:42 AM, Prieure de Sion said:

Let me summarise.

You're doing one of the biggest auctions with thousands of items over four days with customers worldwide. You know that you should send this mass of goods quickly after the auction. You know that with this amount, there are always questions and problems to be solved afterwards. 

But although this is actually logical, you go on holiday after the auction. A small team takes care of the shipping. It is not possible that someone answers your support emails as a holiday replacement? Customers from all over the world have to make expensive phone calls?

That is really "unfortunate" ...

How dare they taking a few days off? 🙂

But seriously, do you think that there is ever a "good time" to take some days off if you're running multiple auctions a year? All this is complaining on a very high level. Give them a break!

Edited August 3, 2022 by SimonW

[Prieure de Sion]

5 hours ago, SimonW said:

But seriously, do you think that there is ever a "good time" to take some days off if you're running multiple auctions a year? All this is complaining on a very high level. Give them a break!

Everyone deserves a break and a holiday from their work! Everyone is entitled to it. And I never want to question that. But they don't have a big auction every month. They don't even have an auction every month. They have an auction every two months. Month 1: auction, month 2: break, month 3: auction. So there is absolutely plenty of time between two auctions to take enough holidays. But from my point of view, you can't go on holiday directly after such a big 4-day auction.

And no, I am not satisfied with the exclusive service. I paid almost 100 EUR for shipping, insurance AND (!) the shipping service. And that from a place 150km away from me. I ship for 20 euros to New York at a distance of 6300km. And yes, for 100 EUR shipping service I expect 1a service - and also that they choose a good shipper. And what do I find now - that Leu has chosen a sender who charges me another 100 euros in fees (not customs!) as an extra service fee. So for 150km I paid 100 euros to Leu and 100 euros to FedEx in shipping charges. For 200 euros I send you a package 5x to Australia. 

And this parcel has been stuck at FedEx for 5 days now and is not making any progress. And that's for 200 euros in service fees. No, I am not chilled, I am not satisfied. And I stand by that. 

I have no problem with someone doing business exclusively. I have no problem buying from an exclusive company! I'm happy to pay for exclusive service! BUT then I also expect exclusive service! I also buy at Künker or Roma. They are not cheap either.

But with Roma London, I pay 1/2 the shipping service for a distance of 1000 km, I pay today and in 24 hours, 48 hours at the latest, the parcel with coins is with me. And with Roma I pay 32 British pounds for shipping - and I don't have to pay another fee for shipping like I do now with FedEx for another 100 euros with Leu - even though I had already paid Leu 100 euros.

Roma Shipping & Service (1000km from me) 24/48h Express
+ 32 British Pound (ca. 45 Euro) include Shipping Cost, Insurance, Service
+ German Custom Tax

Leu Shipping & Service (150km from me) waiting now from the 18.07. and its not here today
+ 91 Euro Leu include Shipping Cost, Insurance, Service Handling
+ German Custom Tax
+ 100 Euro FedEx Service Handling Fees

You see the different? And yes... I am not angry, but disappointed. Ask for a lot of exclusivity and a lot of money - no problem - but then do more.

 

If you want to be exclusive - you should also play exclusively.
That is my opinion as a private buyer.

Edited August 3, 2022 by Prieure de Sion

[Prieure de Sion]

Ha ha ha... this is soooo "funny" ... not!

In this minute the FedEx Driver comes and bring me my Leu parcel. And its comedies at is best.

I paid ca. 90 Euro to Leu for Shipping and Insurance with FedEx. Ok. Thats not cheap. But ok. 

Then I get an Email from FedEx - I must pay the German Custom Tax - thats normal - its round about 440 Euro for my parcel. But FedEx told me - when the driver comes - I must pay 540 Euro - because there is a FedEx Fee that they will bring me the parcel and make the tax documents for me. So I paid roundabout 190 Euro for the Shipment for 150km. Ok - that all I write you in the thread before. Nothing new.

So - because FedEx write me with Email - please have the money at home to give the driver this money - I deposit the 540 Euro at home.

Now - the driver was here - and say to me - I get 560 Euro!
Why 560 Euro? FedEx mailed me 540 Euro?!? Yes - its more - because its a fee to bring you the parcel and take the cash money ... 😂😂😂

Thats all a joke - or isn't it?

 

Now I'm sitting at home and have closed all the doors and windows. I'm afraid that the doorbell will ring and someone will want money from me again for this programme and it will never end...

[SimonW]

4 hours ago, Prieure de Sion said:

Month 1: auction, month 2: break, month 3: auction.

You think they can take a break every two months (after each auction), but are complaining because they (or one of their employees respectively) actually take a break after their last auction? I hope you see the flaw in your reasoning 🙂

As for shipping: given customs used the correct VAT rate of 7% (reduced), your invoice total was somewhere near 6'300 Euros. Insurance is usually about 1% and you said you paid approx. 90 Euros. So the effective shipping costs are roughly 27 Euros, which is pretty standard (and actually quite inexpensive for Switzerland).

Personally, I would drive there and pick the coins up if it's only 150 km (~93 miles).

Edited August 3, 2022 by SimonW

[Prieure de Sion]

1 hour ago, SimonW said:

You think they can take a break every two months (after each auction), but are complaining because they (or one of their employees respectively) actually take a break after their last auction? I hope you see the flaw in your reasoning 🙂

Sorry - but you don't go on holiday directly after such a big auction. Especially not if all the buyers (by mail order) are settled afterwards. If I start a big project with my company and close down immediately afterwards - and my customer contacts me and finds out that we are on holiday right in the hot phase - he will - understandably - have no understanding for this. You can try 100 times to make it sound better.

1 hour ago, SimonW said:

As for shipping: given customs used the correct VAT rate of 7% (reduced), your invoice total was somewhere near 6'300 Euros. Insurance is usually about 1% and you said you paid approx. 90 Euros. So the effective shipping costs are roughly 27 Euros, which is pretty standard (and actually quite inexpensive for Switzerland).

No, I paid 19%. Because FedEx didn't give me a chance - they cleared customs without asking. And they paid the wrong duty. With DHL Express I have the chance to intervene myself with the customs number - with FedEx I didn't have that and I ended up with 19%.

And I don't care what % it is of my total. In the end, I paid 91 euros for shipping including insurance - for 150km of shipping. I don't care what the percentage is. Roma makes it outside the EU at 1000 km for 45 euros including insurance - and within 24h, 48h at the latest.

And with Roma, the 45 euros are one-off!

You are forgetting that Leu has chosen a sender who also charges 2x again. Once for customs clearance and now another 20 euros for the driver to accept the fee. In total, I paid almost 200 euros for shipping. And I don't care if Leu charges 90 euros and Fedex another 100 euros - in the end, the total is almost 200 euros. And that's a lot! Then I'll choose a better shipping company as the sender.

Effective or not effective Roma 45 Euro + 12 Euro DHL fee for customs. Leu 90 Euro + 100 Euro FedEx fee for customs and delivery. In the end, it's the final total that counts. As the recipient, I don't care who collects which fees in the end. In the end, you have to know what you paid for the transport.

 

And as far as customs clearance is concerned - while we're on the subject - big time. Roma writes the German customs number and the customs text on the freight documents and declares the consignment correctly.

What did Leu write on the freight documents?
 

"Oh German customs - could you please do 7% tax? We don't know which number, we don't know which group, we don't know which classification - please see if the 7% doesn't work".

Sorry - what are these freight details? Of course German customs says - what are these details? That is not correct information! So we take 19% standard and NOT the 7%. And I have now paid 19% tax. But I will object to that. But it is work and time.

You can try to make this look good 100 times. I stick to my private opinion as a buyer. Other renowned auction houses can do it faster, better and cheaper. That is my opinion.