Jump to content

A cool 3/4 follis!


hotwheelsearl
 Share

Recommended Posts

I always thought the "odd" denominated follis fractions were neat - 12, 16, 30. They tend to be harder to find and more expensive than I want to spend.

I found this in a lot for like $7 per coin. This unfortunately suffers from a tons of bronze disease, mixed in with stable malachite deposits.

I could probably dunk this in sodium hydroxide and strip it down, but I kind of like malachite. Currently trying to perform some life-saving surgery with distilled water. Please pray for us!

IMG_E4763.JPG.bb7a3b020273579482f48792d55c5f72.JPG

  • Like 12
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I hope you're able to fix the BD.  Congrats on getting a thirty nummia.

I bought one of Phocas (unphotographed) from Allen Berman many years ago.  Is this one Tiberius II?

Heraclius was one which I never got around to getting (unless I bought a low-grade one and forgot about it).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Nerosmyfavorite68 said:

I hope you're able to fix the BD.  Congrats on getting a thirty nummia.

I bought one of Phocas (unphotographed) from Allen Berman many years ago.  Is this one Tiberius II?

Heraclius was one which I never got around to getting (unless I bought a low-grade one and forgot about it).

I do believe this is Tiberius II, Sear 432!

When I saw the picture in the lot, it was reverse side up so I saw the XXX and got excited. The obverse is going to end up pretty much obliterated, but hey, at least the interesting part of the coin is still intact.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Terrific catch, @hotwheelsearl  I've been hankering for a XXX for some time now, but they are hard to find.  

Don't despair about the bronze disease - over the past few months I've been trying to clean up some BD in my collection and it is going okay.  My technique is nothing fancy:  soaking in distilled water, some picking with a sharp metal tool, more soaking.  I've been surprised how much I've been able to get off...

My worst case has been this big Antioch AE, which was covered in white BD.  After a lot of soaking and picking, I seem to have most of it, but unfortunately, the BD had gone so deep I poked right through to the other side.  And yet I'm glad to get that junk out of there - it wasn't metal, just powdery crud. 

In my very limited experience, I find the green BD to be much easier to remove.  The white stuff tends to spread into tiny pits and in general seems more corrosive.  I'm sure others with far more experience can weigh in on this topic. 

In the meantime - holy moley!  (Photos from a couple weeks ago - more soaking and scraping have reduced the white areas by quite a bit):  

1648784168_Antioch-ElagabalusTycheseatedBDJan2020(0).jpg.6e4970065d3f9134b1c7fa6db4fc96fe.jpg

 

1820949150_Antioch-ElagabalusTycheseatedBDJan2020(5).JPG.b4a610e084cd80ecb0826d0aade726c9.JPG

  

 

 

  • Like 4
  • Shock 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Congrats on your 3/4 follis! I hope you are able to save it from the BD.  I also got my first 3/4 follis the other day albeit not a "XXX". Instead, it is a Λ of Heraclius and Heraclius Constantine overstruck on a Heraclius follis (Sear 808)

870837152_HeracliusandHeracliusConstantineThree-quarterfollisConstantinople.png.bd7b28a86260a3becc701cda31b361a6.png

 

I had my eye on a Phocas XXX on Warren Esty's page. It was a bit pricey for me but eventually I was ready to pull the trigger...and of course it was sold...story of my life!

  • Like 12
Link to comment
Share on other sites

minted at Constantinople during the reign of Phocus between 23 Nov. 602 – 5 Oct. 610. Obv. FOCAS.PERP.AVG.: Crowned bust facing, wearing consular robes and holding mappa and cross. Rev. Large XXXX; above, A/N/N/O, usually to r., numerals representing regnal year, in ex., CON. BCVS #640.

 

93 PHOCAS OBV.jpg

93 PHOCAS REV.jpg

  • Like 11
  • Heart Eyes 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 7/24/2022 at 12:18 AM, hotwheelsearl said:

I do believe this is Tiberius II, Sear 432!

When I saw the picture in the lot, it was reverse side up so I saw the XXX and got excited. The obverse is going to end up pretty much obliterated, but hey, at least the interesting part of the coin is still intact.

You are right, but I would also do this: " could probably dunk this in sodium hydroxide and strip it down, but I kind of like malachite."

30 nummi of Tiberius with CONA mintmark are the most common, and I would dare to say these were common on the market this year. I lost so many that I overbid on the one below. If you ever want a 30 nummi, target a CONA or CONB of Tiberius - are big, not overstruck, generally in decent condition and not very expensive (a nice one should be betwen 50-100 EUR).   

image.jpeg.e44975a1774a00a20e62baf6c4a7446b.jpeg

 

@Furryfrog02 Heraclius 30 nummi are next on the availability list. These are generally overstruck and can rarely be fully identified with officina and year. If one looks for availability, you'll not find much data, because these are small and ugly, and rarely fully and correctly identified, hence the search engines will not return much data. They are still available, and can be picked for modest prices, below 20 EUR.  Here's my CON Gamma year XX.

image.png.15bb29613ffd58d8e8f7f5d3d9d186d1.png

There are rare mints and years for these. Phocas too has 30 nummi coins, and these are all rare. If you ever find one or have one and want to part ways with it, let me know.

Below a Phocas, 30 nummi, CONB, year 6.

 image.jpeg.175be36b245a20cc9d9faf595648d7ea.jpeg

  • Like 15
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Benefactor
Posted (edited)
On 7/23/2022 at 2:59 PM, hotwheelsearl said:

I always thought the "odd" denominated follis fractions were neat - 12, 16, 30. They tend to be harder to find and more expensive than I want to spend.

I found this in a lot for like $7 per coin. This unfortunately suffers from a tons of bronze disease, mixed in with stable malachite deposits.

I could probably dunk this in sodium hydroxide and strip it down, but I kind of like malachite. Currently trying to perform some life-saving surgery with distilled water. Please pray for us!

IMG_E4763.JPG.bb7a3b020273579482f48792d55c5f72.JPG

Nice catch at a great price!  

Does the coin have powdery deposits?  That's the sign of active bronze disease.  The hard patches are probably inert and they're usually hard as concrete.

You're probably familiar with the following process to remove BD, but if not, here it is:

I've used sodium sesquicarbonate powder mixed with heated distilled water (not tap water) to create a bath for bronzes with BD.  If the BD is thick, the coin may need to remain in the bath for a week or two.  The water changes to a green color, indicating that the bronze disease is being neutralized, and it may be necessary to change the water with more sodium sesquicarbonate.  BD can be very persistent.  I've had coins that I thought were successfully treated, only to see the BD return, so back into a new bath goes the coin.  I forgot to mention to thoroughly rinse the coin with distilled water between treatments, and make sure all moisture is removed.  Some collectors put the coin in an oven at a very low temperature - 200 should be the top end.  I live in a climate with usually very low humidity, except during the rainy season (but the rains have essentially stopped) so coins dry out pretty quickly without the aid of the oven.

Now you need to be very sure that the coin has BD.  I say this because the treatment, especially is extended, will remove almost all of the coin's patina, in addition to the BD, so you could end up with a rough looking coin with bare surfaces, which will darken with time, but the smoothness of the patina will be basically gone.

You could leave the coin out and observe it to see if it develops powdery deposits.  If it does, then proceed with the treatment.  Sodium sesquicarbonate (alkali washing soda) can be purchased online, or your local hardware might stock it.

Good luck.

Here's my Tiberius II Constantine 30 nummi, Cyzicus.  This coin came from CNG back in the late 1980s.

Tiberius II Constantine, Cyzicus, Officina B, 30 nummi, 578-582 AD.  CNA XIX.

12.1 grams

1817706192_D-CameraTiberiusIICyzicus30nummi578-582ADCNAXIX12.1g11-16-20.jpg.9d533e6aaed8e66c6e80132144b9095e.jpg

 

 

 

Edited by robinjojo
  • Like 9
Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 hours ago, robinjojo said:

Nice catch at a great price!  

Does the coin have powdery deposits?  That's the sign of active bronze disease.  The hard patches are probably inert and they're usually hard as concrete.

You're probably familiar with the following process to remove BD, but if not, here it is:

I've used sodium sesquicarbonate powder mixed with heated distilled water (not tap water) to create a bath for bronzes with BD.  If the BD is thick, the coin may need to remain in the bath for a week or two.  The water changes to a green color, indicating that the bronze disease is being neutralized, and it may be necessary to change the water with more sodium sesquicarbonate.  BD can be very persistent.  I've had coins that I thought were successfully treated, only to see the BD return, so back into a new bath goes the coin.  I forgot to mention to thoroughly rinse the coin with distilled water between treatments, and make sure all moisture is removed.  Some collectors put the coin in an oven at a very low temperature - 200 should be the top end.  I live in a climate with usually very low humidity, except during the rainy season (but the rains have essentially stopped) so coins dry out pretty quickly without the aid of the oven.

Now you need to be very sure that the coin has BD.  I say this because the treatment, especially is extended, will remove almost all of the coin's patina, in addition to the BD, so you could end up with a rough looking coin with bare surfaces, which will darken with time, but the smoothness of the patina will be basically gone.

You could leave the coin out and observe it to see if it develops powdery deposits.  If it does, then proceed with the treatment.  Sodium sesquicarbonate (alkali washing soda) can be purchased online, or your local hardware might stock it.

Good luck.

Here's my Tiberius II Constantine 30 nummi, Cyzicus.  This coin came from CNG back in the late 1980s.

Tiberius II Constantine, Cyzicus, Officina B, 30 nummi, 578-582 AD.  CNA XIX.

12.1 grams

1817706192_D-CameraTiberiusIICyzicus30nummi578-582ADCNAXIX12.1g11-16-20.jpg.9d533e6aaed8e66c6e80132144b9095e.jpg

 

 

 

Thanks, it definitely has active BD with powdery green that comes right off with a fingernail. The darker green appears to be inert malachite. In the past I've been able to have quick results with some concentrated NaOH, but I like the malachite! I'm just sticking with some distilled for now, and see how it works out.

Maybe I should just sacrifice this to the sodium sesquicarbonate gods...

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

22 minutes ago, hotwheelsearl said:

Thanks, it definitely has active BD with powdery green that comes right off with a fingernail. The darker green appears to be inert malachite. In the past I've been able to have quick results with some concentrated NaOH, but I like the malachite! I'm just sticking with some distilled for now, and see how it works out.

Maybe I should just sacrifice this to the sodium sesquicarbonate gods...

It'll be interesting to see if distilled water does the job. It looks like a tough ask but you never know. Good luck!

Edited by John Conduitt
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Benefactor
Posted (edited)
On 7/26/2022 at 4:02 PM, hotwheelsearl said:

Thanks, it definitely has active BD with powdery green that comes right off with a fingernail. The darker green appears to be inert malachite. In the past I've been able to have quick results with some concentrated NaOH, but I like the malachite! I'm just sticking with some distilled for now, and see how it works out.

Maybe I should just sacrifice this to the sodium sesquicarbonate gods...

I'd sick with the distilled water for a while.  It will neutralize the BD, but it might take days or even weeks, unless the BD is deep within the coin, then it becomes a different ball game.

I think of sodium sesquicarbonate as the nuclear option, only to be used when all else fails.  

Edited by robinjojo
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hey I've got a Focas. He was the first emperor to popularize beards, a tradition that lasted for the rest of the empire's life. (See the coin below)

Also, Focas was the last emperor to erect a monument in the Roman forum


The inscription on the statue reads as follows:

“To the best, most clement and pious ruler, our lord Phokas the perpetual emperor, crowned by God, the forever august triumphator, did Smaragdus, former praepositus sacri palatii and patricius and Exarch of Italy, devoted to His Clemency for the innumerable benefactions of His Piousness and for the peace acquired for Italy and its freedom preserved, this statue of His Majesty, sparkling from the splendor of gold here on this tallest column for his eternal glory erect and dedicate, on the first day of the month of August, in the eleventh indiction in the fifth year after the consulate of His Piousness.”

focas1.jpg

focas2.jpg

focas_column.png

  • Like 7
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 7/23/2022 at 5:47 PM, Furryfrog02 said:

Congrats on your 3/4 follis! I hope you are able to save it from the BD.  I also got my first 3/4 follis the other day albeit not a "XXX". Instead, it is a Λ of Heraclius and Heraclius Constantine overstruck on a Heraclius follis (Sear 808)

870837152_HeracliusandHeracliusConstantineThree-quarterfollisConstantinople.png.bd7b28a86260a3becc701cda31b361a6.png

 

I had my eye on a Phocas XXX on Warren Esty's page. It was a bit pricey for me but eventually I was ready to pull the trigger...and of course it was sold...story of my life!

Esty is one of the better places to buy from for coins from this era. Usually prices are below market average 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, TheTrachyEnjoyer said:

Esty is one of the better places to buy from for coins from this era. Usually prices are below market average 

I totally agree. Warren has great stuff. It was just too expensive for my budget collection haha. It was still very reasonable. I regret not pulling the trigger.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...