🐍A Cistophoric tetradrachm with a double die match🐍

[JayAg47]

I've been looking for these cistophoric tetradrachms for a long time, but non 'spoke' to me, or they were too expensive to justify the purchase. As part of my recent splurge, I finally bought it, even though I had this coin on my watchlist for nearly a year (probably the longest I've ever pondered over buying a coin, and luckily no one else bought it in the meantime, for a good reason).

MYSIA, Pergamon AR Cistophoric Tetradrachm. 
12.28g, 28.9mm, circa 180/167-133 BC
REF: BMC 90, Kleiner-Noe series 11a, Pinder 84a.
OBV: Cista mystica within ivy wreath. REV: Two serpents entwined around bow and bowcase; ΠΕPΓ civic monogram to left, race torch to right. 

I got it form @zumbly's store Minotaur coins. This is what it looked like, with patches of horn silver. Upon receiving the coin, I treated with sodium thiosulphate to remove the encrustations. 

I then looked to see if there are any die matches. I'm sure the later issues of these coins are so numerous that finding a die match is almost impossible. However, since this is an early type with specific elements like the torch and high details on the bow case and the snakes, I managed to find a double die match after examining hundreds of images on acsearch. I believe the coin below, sold by Heritage is a double die match. https://coins.ha.com/itm/ancients/greek/ancients-mysia-pergamum-ca-180-167-133-bc-ar-cistophorus-30mm-11h-ngc-xf/a/232144-61100.s?ic16=ViewItem-Auction-Archive-JumpLot-081514#

Please share you cistophoric themed coins! 

[Roman Collector]

That's a nice coin, @JayAg47 It has lovely toning. Here's my only cistophorus.

Antony and Octavia.
AR cistophorus, 25.6 mm, 11.71 gm.
Ephesus, 39 BCE.
Obv: M ANTONINVS IMP COS DESIG ITER ET TERT, Jugate heads of Marcus Antonius and Octavia to right; he wears ivy wreath.
Rev: III VIR RPC, Cista mystica surmounted by figure of Bacchus, standing to left, holding cantharus and leaning on thyrsus; on either side, coiled serpent.
Refs: SNG Cop. 408; SNG von Aulock 6555; Franke KZR 472; RSC 3; Sydenham 1198; RPC 2202; Sear 1513; BMCRR East 135-137.

[Kali]

Pergamon, Mysia (133 - 67 B.C)

AR Cistophoric Tetradrachm
O:  Cista mystica with half-open lid, from which a snake emerges, all within wreath of ivy with berries.
R: Two serpents entwined around bow and bowcase; above, ME, prytaneis monogram, and A (controls), (Pergamon monogram) to left, serpent-entwined thyrsos to right.
11.36g
26mm
Kleiner, Hoard 40; SNG BN 1744

Ex. Glenn Schinke, March 1995

[MrMonkeySwag96]

49 minutes ago, JayAg47 said:

I've been looking for these cistophoric tetradrachms for a long time, but non 'spoke' to me, or they were too expensive to justify the purchase. As part of my recent splurge, I finally bought it, even though I had this coin on my watchlist for nearly a year (probably the longest I've ever pondered over buying a coin, and luckily no one else bought it in the meantime, for a good reason).

MYSIA, Pergamon AR Cistophoric Tetradrachm. 
12.28g, 28.9mm, circa 180/167-133 BC
REF: BMC 90, Kleiner-Noe series 11a, Pinder 84a.
OBV: Cista mystica within ivy wreath. REV: Two serpents entwined around bow and bowcase; ΠΕPΓ civic monogram to left, race torch to right. 

I got it form @zumbly's store Minotaur coins. This is what it looked like, with patches of horn silver. Upon receiving the coin, I treated with sodium thiosulphate to remove the encrustations. 

I then looked to see if there are any die matches. I'm sure the later issues of these coins are so numerous that finding a die match is almost impossible. However, since this is an early type with specific elements like the torch and high details on the bow case and the snakes, I managed to find a double die match after examining hundreds of images on acsearch. I believe the coin below, sold by Heritage is a double die match. https://coins.ha.com/itm/ancients/greek/ancients-mysia-pergamum-ca-180-167-133-bc-ar-cistophorus-30mm-11h-ngc-xf/a/232144-61100.s?ic16=ViewItem-Auction-Archive-JumpLot-081514#

Please share you cistophoric themed coins! 

I almost bought your tetradrachm when I first saw it on Minotaur Coins. It’s a nice coin for the price, as it’s more sharply struck than most examples I’ve seen on Vcoins. The cistophoric tetradrachms are known for being weakly struck & poorly centered. 

I ended up purchasing my cistophorus from Lodge Antiquities instead:

 

MYSIA, Pergamon. Circa 166-67 BC. AR Tetradrachm (26mm, 12.44 g). Cistophoric type. Struck circa 88-85 BC. Cista mystica within ivy wreath / Two serpents entwined around bow and bowcase; BA and prytaneis monogram above, civic monogram to left, serpent-entwined thyrsos to right. Kleiner, Hoard 30; SNG BN 1730-1.

Edited May 21 by MrMonkeySwag96

[Kaleun96]

1 hour ago, JayAg47 said:

I've been looking for these cistophoric tetradrachms for a long time, but non 'spoke' to me, or they were too expensive to justify the purchase. As part of my recent splurge, I finally bought it, even though I had this coin on my watchlist for nearly a year (probably the longest I've ever pondered over buying a coin, and luckily no one else bought it in the meantime, for a good reason).

MYSIA, Pergamon AR Cistophoric Tetradrachm. 
12.28g, 28.9mm, circa 180/167-133 BC
REF: BMC 90, Kleiner-Noe series 11a, Pinder 84a.
OBV: Cista mystica within ivy wreath. REV: Two serpents entwined around bow and bowcase; ΠΕPΓ civic monogram to left, race torch to right. 

Congrats on the purchase! One note on the thiosulfate treatment is that it appears to have left its trademark dull yellow toning on the coin. I see this quite often when treating coins with thiosulfate. IMO it's not very pleasant toning and would be considered artificial so is best removed but the only method I've found that works is friction, e.g. you may notice it start to come off the edges when you handle the coin enough. I've found that lightly rubbing it with an eraser works as well, you don't need to apply much pressure and you also want to be sure the surfaces are free of debris. It shouldn't cause any scratches when done correctly but of course at a microscopic level it would theoretically be polishing the surfaces ever so slightly (though only to a similar degree that handling the coin polishes the surfaces).

Then again, if you don't mind the toning and don't plan on selling the coin, you can also leave it as-is!

[Marsyas Mike]

Nice find, good research, and excellent cleaning job @JayAg47  I too was wanting one of these for a long time - last year two came my way that were affordable; digging around, I also found die-matches.  These were a lot of fun to research because of the circumstances of their minting, who minted them, etc.  One of mine was issued by an usurper and the other one has a Mithridatic War connection, apparently.  The ones with the red background on top are mine:

Apollonis, Lydia Eumenes III (Aristonikos) Cistophoric Tetradrachm Year 3 (131-130 B.C.) Cista mystica with serpent within ivy wreath / Bow case with serpents, thunderbolt above, laureate & bearded head (Zeus?) left, laureate & beardless head (Dionysos?) right, BA-EY within coils of serpents, Γ on bow case, AΠ-OΛ across lower field. SNG von Aulock 2897; Kleiner & Noe Series 2; DCA 349.  (12.28 grams / 26 x 25 mm) eBay August 2023 

Die-Match Obverse: 

London Ancient Coins (Vcoins) SKU: LG2941 Sold £ 200.00 / $254.68

"When the Pergamene king Attalos II died in 134 BC, he bequeathed his kingdom to the Romans. Because the Romans were slow in securing their claim, Aristonikos...(claimed) the throne, taking the dynastic name Eumenes. Although unable to capture Pergamon, his revolt lasted 4 years, until he was defeated...by the Romans under consul M. Perperna. After his surrender, he was paraded through Rome and executed."  CNG

 

Tralles, Lydia  Cistophoric Tetradrachm Magistrate Atta - (c. 89-85 B.C.) See notes. Cista mystica with serpent, ivy wreath with fruits around / [T]PAΛ | ATTA, two serpents around bow case, Dionysos standing right holding thyrsos and grapes, panther at feet. (12.49 grams / 24 x 23 mm) eBay April 2023

Attribution and Notes:  SNG Copenhagen 655; Imhoof LS 13; GRPC Lydia S505.

"Given the already mentioned connection between Dionysus and Mithridates, the introduction of Dionysus as a control mark in the issues of ATTA and ΘEOΔ suggests a dating in the course of the First Mithridatic War." Lucia Francesca Carbone

Provenance: Noonans Auction 269; Lot 61; 8 March 2023 Price realized: 80 GBP  (Approx. 95 USD / 90 EUR)

Die-Match Reverse: Roma Numismatics Ltd. E-Sale 86; Lot 546; 08.07.2021

 

 

 

 

[JayAg47]

15 minutes ago, Kaleun96 said:

Congrats on the purchase! One note on the thiosulfate treatment is that it appears to have left its trademark dull yellow toning on the coin. I see this quite often when treating coins with thiosulfate. IMO it's not very pleasant toning and would be considered artificial so is best removed but the only method I've found that works is friction, e.g. you may notice it start to come off the edges when you handle the coin enough. I've found that lightly rubbing it with an eraser works as well, you don't need to apply much pressure and you also want to be sure the surfaces are free of debris. It shouldn't cause any scratches when done correctly but of course at a microscopic level it would theoretically be polishing the surfaces ever so slightly (though only to a similar degree that handling the coin polishes the surfaces).

Then again, if you don't mind the toning and don't plan on selling the coin, you can also leave it as-is!

I usually clean the coin with bicarb soda to get rid of the dullness after treatment with thiosulphate, but with this coin, I actually like the toning which gives it certain contrast rather than being blast white. This image was taken right under direct sunlight, so the yellowness could've been exaggerated. Now that I've handled the coin quite a bit in the past couple of weeks, the high points have started to show silver while the surface is still dark, which actually makes the coin to pop up more. 

[NewStyleKing]

The start date of the cistaphorus is still very uncertain and maybe the various mints started at different times  The dated cistaphorus of Ephesus was last queried by Jorge Muller, Muller, Jorge W., “The chronology of Ephesos revisited”. Schweizer Munzblatter Band 77   1998 . 

A re-dating of the dated coins of Ephesos on grounds that the Romans only actually controlled  and minted coins in Ephesos five years later than assumed from the bequest of Attalos III. My ideas on the significance of the “Headdress of Isis” symbol in the Rome-Pontic times benefit hugely from his scheme. Opposed by DeCallatay in “More than it would seem….” 2011 .

[Anaximander]

I really like die matches. I got a bunch of Sylloge Nummorum Graecorum (ANS, Copenhagen, France, Turkey...) so that I can get as many attributions and dies matches as possible. I also clip catalogs if I find a die match. Here's my quartet of cistaphoric tetradrachms. One is of Attalos II in Ephesos. That's my highest grade coin.  The other three are from Pergamon.

The obverse die of the coin on the top right has got to be from the same hand as yours, @JayAg47. It's almost a die match. 

[Kaleun96]

On 5/21/2024 at 4:05 PM, JayAg47 said:

I usually clean the coin with bicarb soda to get rid of the dullness after treatment with thiosulphate, but with this coin, I actually like the toning which gives it certain contrast rather than being blast white. This image was taken right under direct sunlight, so the yellowness could've been exaggerated. Now that I've handled the coin quite a bit in the past couple of weeks, the high points have started to show silver while the surface is still dark, which actually makes the coin to pop up more. 

I'd be a little concerned about sodium bicarbonate scratching/polishing the silver since its Mohs hardness is similar to that of silver and I've seen people recommending it not be used for that reason but I've never tested it myself since I don't have a modern silver coin to sacrifice.

[Alegandron]

Time when Sulla raising hell with Mithradates of Pontos.

Mysia Pergamon Tetradrachm 12.4g 26mm Cisto mystica with serpents - snakes KP 85-76 BCE

[Sebastian]

Mysia, Pergamon
Q. Caecilius Metellus Pius Scipio, imperator, 49/8 BC.
AR Cistophoric Tetradrachm (28 mm, 11,82 g.).
Obv: Cista mystica with half-open lid from which a serpent issues to the left; around, ivy wreath with fruits.
Rev: Q · METELLVS · PIVS · / SCIPIO IMPER Between facing serpents, legionary eagle on pole; in left field, monogram of Pergamon.
LRC 4.2, Series XVII 207 (O14/R107). Pinder 192. Stumpf 68

 

 

Edited May 24 by Sebastian

[Anaximander]

Good one, @Sebastian.  So rich in Roman names and symbols, like that legionary eagle standard. 

It's SNG France 5 #1763-1765. 

[HipShot Photography]

I like this type of coin.  There are some excellent examples here. This one came into my studio a while ago and I finally got to shoot it yesterday.  I'd love to have it in my collection. 

[Phil Anthos]

These types don't usually speak to me, but that coin is stunning!

~ Peter 

Edited May 26 by Phil Anthos

[robinjojo]

Wonderful examples posted!

Here's my only example, quite crude and worn.

Mysia, Pergamon, cisophoric tetradrachm, circa 76-67 BC.

Pinder 109

12.1 grams

[Ancient Coin Hunter]

Great coins all. I have yet to get the type.