Gambles - Lucky Buys and Crushing Disappointment

[zadie]

Love this thread! My best unattributed/group lot find might be this one:

Five cruddy bronzes but I was only after one of them. The middle coin in the bottom row is a rare "fleet coin" issued by Mark Antony. They're usually not much to look at and this one is certainly not going to win any accolades. Probably why it flew under the radar and wound up in a group lot. Looking back at it I probably overspent trying to win it, fortunately The Titus sestertius and Augustus provincial helped offset the cost somewhat.

 

Fleet Coinage. Mark Antony and Octavia. Æ Dupondius. Uncertain mint in Achaea circa 38-37 BC. M. Oppius Capito, Propraetor and Praefectus Classis. Confronting busts of Antony and Octavia, [M · ANT · IMP · TER · COS · DES · ITER · ET · TER · III · VIR · R · P · C] / Two galleys below caps of the dioscuri, [M · OPPIVS · CAPITO · PRO · PR · PRAEF · CLASS · F · C] - B below. Amandry, Bronze II, 3C; RPC I, 1464.

[Victor_Clark]

44 minutes ago, Orange Julius said:

Thanks for sharing the photo! That was a cool snag. If I remember right, this one was minted after the defeat of Maxentius and likely along side of the coins commemorating the move of the Ostia mint to Arles… this is from memory, so if I’m wrong let me know!

 

Yes, it was issued shortly after the transfer of the mint. Here is a link to my page about this coin

https://www.constantinethegreatcoins.com/VICTORIA/

[Roman Collector]

38 minutes ago, zadie said:

Love this thread! My best unattributed/group lot find might be this one:

Five cruddy bronzes but I was only after one of them. The middle coin in the bottom row is a rare "fleet coin" issued by Mark Antony. They're usually not much to look at and this one is certainly not going to win any accolades. Probably why it flew under the radar and wound up in a group lot. Looking back at it I probably overspent trying to win it, fortunately The Titus sestertius and Augustus provincial helped offset the cost somewhat.

 

Fleet Coinage. Mark Antony and Octavia. Æ Dupondius. Uncertain mint in Achaea circa 38-37 BC. M. Oppius Capito, Propraetor and Praefectus Classis. Confronting busts of Antony and Octavia, [M · ANT · IMP · TER · COS · DES · ITER · ET · TER · III · VIR · R · P · C] / Two galleys below caps of the dioscuri, [M · OPPIVS · CAPITO · PRO · PR · PRAEF · CLASS · F · C] - B below. Amandry, Bronze II, 3C; RPC I, 1464.

That Crispina CONCORDIA seated MB isn't too shabby, either! Nice lot!

[Heliodromus]

I can't think of many gambles, but having been collecting a long time I've certainly had my share of dumb luck - being in the right place at the right time and getting rare coins very cheaply.

Here's an example from a few years ago.

"Lote De Monedas Romanas Antiguas Son 4 + Pedacería" for which I paid the fixed asking price of $849 ... except that's Mexican Pesos meaning $45 US.

The Constantine coin is rare and highly collectible due to the Chi-Rho on his helmet. The thing in the middle is small rock - not sure why it was included! 😃

The main luck element here wasn't just the price, but the fact I saw the coin at all, since it was listed on the Mexican e-commerce site "Mercado Libre", which I had never been to before, or since. I have zero recollection of how I ended up on that site on that day.

It wasn't exactly an easy purchase either since I had to navigate the site and communicate with the seller in Spanish, pay via Western Union, and then pray that Correos de Mexico wouldn't lose it, which sounded like a 50/50 proposition from what I'd read. It didn't help my confidence that the provided tracking number was invalid. I really didn't have much faith that I'd actually receive it, but sure enough it eventually did arrive, with a bunch of nice "day of the dead" stamps on it.

 

It's honestly puzzling to me how I ended up on that web site. I have no recollection.

 

Edited March 31 by Heliodromus

[seth77]

9 hours ago, Orange Julius said:

@Marsyas Mike Haha, hunters in the same forest. That Gordian is much nicer that it appears in the seller’s photos. That same seller has a really nice Galerius follis that I’ve considered buying… but although still a good deal, it’s priced a bit high to be a great deal.

@Herodotus That shield coin is a beauty with just the right level of toning. Those other coins were a great buy too. I’m a sucker for anything from Alexandria.

@seth77 I’m not as familiar with medieval coins. What is it and what makes it special (I’m sure it is, but interested in why)?

@Amarmur What a great buy! $25 for those 3 is a steal. I’ve dreamed at finding coins at a flea market or garage sale set in costume jewelry but have yet to have it happen. $20 for that historic type for LV is great too!

@Nerosmyfavorite68 I have yet to snag an Aemilian and have been hunting for a deal on one but… they’re scarce and even on eBay draw attention. I remember that Nero too, sad thing that it broke. I once bought an Egyptian Eye of Horus that arrived smashed. I got a refund but was super bummed out. I still have the pieces.

@ela126 Oooh is that a late Byzantine Alexandrian coin? Who is it? Love that. I find coins of regions that were slipping away or briefly recaptured during that time period very interesting. Coins of Carthage, Rome, Alexandria in the Byzantine era are very cool.

@Roman Collector Love that coin too, I remember reading your original write up on it. Consecratio coins are so cool. I’ve considered a side collection of just those. I think the last funeral pyre type was minted by Claudius II.

@Harry G Oh that Decentius is a gem! I actually thought about you when creating this post as you seem to have a love for rare 3rd and 4th century stuff. That Laelianus you have is a dream coin and you always seem to have interesting Claudius II and Aurelian coins as well. You’re likely my bidding competition that I loose out to for some of these coins haha!

For wins… I also have this Domitian bought on eBay for $9. I could see a bit of silver poking out and suspected it was a nice encrusted denarius… and it was. It’s still not full cleaned. I like it but these days, I kind of wish I’d left it encrusted as you done see many 1st century silver coins “as found.”

Oh and for anyone that didn’t catch the joke above with the eBay Sold screenshot… that’s a coin (1 of I think about 3 known) of Domitian II. Ugly but rare and something I could see poping up on eBay, although I’m sure it would not go unnoticed.

It's a denier of Bordeaux for Henry Plantagenet as King of England. Most Aquitanian coinage at this point is usually for Richard, Henry seems to be considerably scarcer.

[Orange Julius]

As an update… the OP coin also seems to be the Wildwinds coin for the type/mintmark. So that’s fun!

Wildwinds coin:

My Coin:

What’s interesting is that you can’t see many of the obverse mineral encrustations on the Wildwinds photo. Either you can’t see them because the lighting is much different and the definition is much lower, or they weren’t there at the time the image was taken. Perhaps the coin was stored improperly in a pvc flip? The encrustations look and feel stable, like round hard nodules of minerals on the surface, and not like BD at all. 

Anyway… an interesting find late last night as I was cataloging the coin. The listing gives a bit of the coin’s history, back to 2000, if you can call that history when taking about a ~1750 year old coin. “Barry and Darling, ebay, Jan 2000. Sold for $78.00” …which is 4.5X what I bought it for in 2024.

Edited March 31 by Orange Julius

[Nerosmyfavorite68]

During the 1990's glory days of cheap coins, I bought bulk lots of as-sized (Imperials were mostly 2nd c., provincials early 3rd), in about the quality of the above fleet coin ranging up to the Titus coin of the same lot, for $1.50 each. Very few had BD.  The imperials were mostly stripped, but one can't have everything.

[Romismatist]

23 hours ago, DonnaML said:

@Romismatist, the answer depends on nature of the symbol, but it must have been issued sometime between 1832 (when hallmarks or privy marks were first added to restrikes) and 1965 (after which the specific year of the restrike was added to the edge). See https://blog.cgb.fr/une-semaine-une-medaille--n-19-,9151.html :

"01/09/2017

The medal market is not yet very well developed, but it was in the past... it seems that this market has been neglected by most French professionals. And in the absence of material offered to collectors, collectors were interested in other things!

In any case, prices are often quite subjective, with few references available regarding the prices achieved. Period strikes are naturally more appreciated than later restrikes ... how can we recognize them? It would be relevant to recall the different hallmarks used in France. Adopted in 1832, this system of hallmarks has since been obligatory for medals. The edge must bear a hallmark which determines the period at which it was struck, as well as the nature of the metal; ZINC, COPPER, BRONZE, SILVER or GOLD for example.

Seven different hallmarks allow us to know the time of manufacture;

- the antique lamp is used between 1832 and 1841.

- the anchor (with a C) is used between 1841 and 1842.

- the ship's bow is used between 1842 and 1845.

- the hand is used between 1845 and 1860.

- the bee is used between 1860 and 1879.

- the pipe is used only in December 1879

- the cornucopia has been used since 1880.

Other geometric punches, in the shape of a square, diamond or triangle, are only brands of private manufacturers."

Wow, awesome information, very comprehensive as always @DonnaML! Many thanks! Unfortunately, it looks like my hallmark is probably a cornucopia, so the restrike is more modern than I would have liked. Oh well...

[DonnaML]

47 minutes ago, Romismatist said:

Wow, awesome information, very comprehensive as always @DonnaML! Many thanks! Unfortunately, it looks like my hallmark is probably a cornucopia, so the restrike is more modern than I would have liked. Oh well...

It's still a very nice example. And don't forget that all of these restrikes, whenever made, were struck by the Monnaie de Paris (the Paris Mint) with the original dies. They retain an essentially complete set of the original dies back at least as far as the 17th century. I don't know if it's still the case, but one used to be able to order a restrike of almost any medal (except from the more fragile dies) for the price stated in the catalogs they issued. The situation was very different in Great Britain, where the Royal Mint rarely if ever issued restrikes of commemorative medals, and the majority of medals were issued by private mints in the first place. 

Edited April 1 by DonnaML

[Finn235]

Like @Orange Julius said, this is how most of my collection was assembled, so I could drone on for pages about it.

Probably my biggest gamble that paid off the most was this lot from CNG

Properly laid out:

That's a Carausius, Macrianus, Quietus, Marius, and a Magnia Urbica for $240 after fees. I ended up keeping the Carausius, Tacitus, and Saloninus, and still profited almost $600 from selling the rest on eBay.

 

My worst lot:

Seems like a great big pile of good silver antoninianii in superb condition with 3 Macrianus antoninianii right on top, right?

Most of the lot was conveniently arranged to hide the fact that one side was extremely poorly struck. Here's the Valerian in the center right:

That was a "keeper" - many were significantly worse. All in, I think I kept 8 coins and fell $1,000 short of breaking even. Would have been substantially better off just buying individual coins.

[Heliodromus]

On 3/30/2024 at 11:29 PM, Heliodromus said:

It's honestly puzzling to me how I ended up on that web site. I have no recollection.

Thinking about this, my best guess is that I was Google searching for "monedas romanas" and so ended up on this specific listing (which didn't even mention Constantine). I have done this sort of thing before - trying to find new places to buy coins.

[Orange Julius]

22 hours ago, Finn235 said:

Like @Orange Julius said, this is how most of my collection was assembled, so I could drone on for pages about it.

Probably my biggest gamble that paid off the most was this lot from CNG

Properly laid out:

That's a Carausius, Macrianus, Quietus, Marius, and a Magnia Urbica for $240 after fees. I ended up keeping the Carausius, Tacitus, and Saloninus, and still profited almost $600 from selling the rest on eBay.

 

My worst lot:

Seems like a great big pile of good silver antoninianii in superb condition with 3 Macrianus antoninianii right on top, right?

Most of the lot was conveniently arranged to hide the fact that one side was extremely poorly struck. Here's the Valerian in the center right:

That was a "keeper" - many were significantly worse. All in, I think I kept 8 coins and fell $1,000 short of breaking even. Would have been substantially better off just buying individual coins.

Wow… that top lot is a “who’s who” of figures missing from my collection (Macrianus, Quietus, Marius, and a Magnia Urbica). I see a lower grade Florian in there too! 

That lower lot would have been a bummer… it looks so nice with all of that silver. To find the other sides of each coin were bad, would be a let down.

Early in my collecting, I saw a medallion of some late third century figure (Florian, Carus, Tacitus… can’t remember) on eBay with terrible photos. You could barely tell what it was through the blur and there was no info other than ‘ancient coin’ but I could see through the bad photography that it was pretty nice. I was (fairly) certain it was authentic and it drew little attention but I just couldn’t pull the trigger (initial bid was at $150 or so.) because the “too good to be true” factor was too high. I still regret not taking a chance on it.

I’ve been meaning to post some of my disappointments… but haven’t yet found the time. Those are harder to post than the wins, but I hope to see more of those in this thread too! 

[Furryfrog02]

That's a really cool one @Victor_Clark!
That particular seller has some pretty interesting pieces. Not so much lately though.

[Finn235]

Another favorite lot of mine came from Leu in 2018:

At something like $40 per coin it was pretty much guaranteed to be a fantastic deal. Some of my favorites:

This Kyme diobol was unique at the time and was sold by Roma for about £300 some six months before it somehow ended up in this lot. Since 2018 I think 3 or 4 more have surfaced, all in very rough shape. Given the current market conditions, this potentially could be my most valuable coin.

This Kebren hemitartemorion sold BIN on eBay for $350. It is a technical marvel that they were able to get a 3D effect portrait of Apollo on a 5mm, 0.07g coin!

This Cilicia satrapal portrait obol may still be the finest known, and sold on ebay for $360

This one sold for $250

This one sold for $200

I liked this one too much to attempt to sell it

It also had a few more keepers for my collection:

Lampsakos hemidrachm

Alexander-type drachm of Antigonus I

And lots more that I apparently don't have images of on my phone.

[Orange Julius]

On 3/30/2024 at 10:29 PM, Heliodromus said:

I can't think of many gambles, but having been collecting a long time I've certainly had my share of dumb luck - being in the right place at the right time and getting rare coins very cheaply.

Here's an example from a few years ago.

"Lote De Monedas Romanas Antiguas Son 4 + Pedacería" for which I paid the fixed asking price of $849 ... except that's Mexican Pesos meaning $45 US.

The Constantine coin is rare and highly collectible due to the Chi-Rho on his helmet. The thing in the middle is small rock - not sure why it was included! 😃

The main luck element here wasn't just the price, but the fact I saw the coin at all, since it was listed on the Mexican e-commerce site "Mercado Libre", which I had never been to before, or since. I have zero recollection of how I ended up on that site on that day.

It wasn't exactly an easy purchase either since I had to navigate the site and communicate with the seller in Spanish, pay via Western Union, and then pray that Correos de Mexico wouldn't lose it, which sounded like a 50/50 proposition from what I'd read. It didn't help my confidence that the provided tracking number was invalid. I really didn't have much faith that I'd actually receive it, but sure enough it eventually did arrive, with a bunch of nice "day of the dead" stamps on it.

 

It's honestly puzzling to me how I ended up on that web site. I have no recollection.

 

Haha, I love the coin… but I also love that the rock is featured in the center and came with the lot. Did you keep it?!

[Heliodromus]

55 minutes ago, Orange Julius said:

Haha, I love the coin… but I also love that the rock is featured in the center and came with the lot. Did you keep it?!

No - I threw the rock out!

Still have the three slugs though, in my desk drawer

A weird ensemble - how/why did a roman coin get bundled together with three (Mexican?) slugs and a rock ?!

 

[Humilau]

Got a deal of a lifetime just last week. The extremely rare E6 Horse Bust for my core collection of Probus from Siscia. Whenever one of these rarely hit the auction block, they command a high premium to them. I was very lucky to acquire this one recently and will stand as one of the top coins in my collection.

Antoninianus (22mm, 3.3g, 6h). Siscia, 278.

IMP C PROBVS PF AVG , Radiate, helmeted and armored bust to the left of Probus, holding a horse's head by the bridle in the right hand, shield on the left shoulder, spear on the right shoulder. (Bastien bust code: E6). Scene from "Virtus" adorning the shield.

SOLI INVICTO, Sol in a galloping quadriga to the left, right hand raised, holding a whip in the left hand.

-/-//XXIS
Emission: 6
Officina: 2
RIC 769 var.

 

[Marsyas Mike]

Here is one that I took a gamble on - seller listed it, for obvious reasons, as a fourree, but I thought that brown and green mess looked like surface adhesions that might be removable.  Top photo is seller's photos.  Bottom photo is after some distilled water soaking and scraping.  It weighs 3.16 grams - I think it's silver and official.  You can see where the crud was removed - my scraping skills (and eyesight) are not exactly top-notch, and I suspect the bronze disease caused some pitting, especially at 12 o'clock reverse.  But it does look overall less awful.  

Edited April 12 by Marsyas Mike