Gambles - Lucky Buys and Crushing Disappointment

[Orange Julius]

As a guy on a budget, I look for deals and sometimes take chances in the swamp that is eBay on coins with bad seller photos.

Sometimes those gambles pay off, and sometimes they don’t and I may have well just burnt my money in the front yard. I’ve won and lost, bought gems and fakes.

Anyway, this was a low-stakes gamble at just $16.95 all in. The seller’s photos were distant, the coin was dark and looked like it may have bronze disease but… I could see there was some good detail and I was pleasantly surprised with the coin when it arrived. Luckily it’s a really nice coin and the speckled green is just mineralization as I suspected.

Anyway, I thought it would be fun to start a thread of your “take a chance” coins, misattributions, gambles, group lot finds, fails and successes! Let’s see them. Post the seller photo if you have it, why you took the gamble and if it paid off.

Seller’s Photos:

My own not great pics of the coin:

Probus. AD 276-282. Antoninianus
Cyzicus mint, 3rd officina. 3rd emission, AD 280. Radiate and mantled bust left, holding eagle-tipped scepter / Sol, head left, raising hand and holding whip, in spread quadriga facing; CM//XXIΓ.
RIC V 911; Pink VI/1, p. 44.

Edited March 30 by Orange Julius

[JAZ Numismatics]

Wow! Impressive score!

[ela126]

Gambling/hunting for diamonds in the rough is almost my favorite part of the ancient coin hobby. Maybe 66% is attribution accuracy and 33% is cleaning opportunities/bad pictures… 1% is dumb luck magic.

nice pickup 

[Romismatist]

@Orange Julius, I'm exactly like you in that I don't have a lot of money to spend on coins so for the most part, I'm actively hunting on EBay for bargains and have been doing so for probably several decades now. Sometimes, like you mention, it's coins that are badly photographed or misattributed. Other times, it's coins that require significant cleaning... the gamble here is whether I have the skill to revitalize the lost glory of the coin.

An example in the latter category was this antoninianus of Volusian, which I've posted here previously. It was part of a hoard of coins which was found somewhere in Brittany a year or two ago.. something like 30 or so coins were all posted at the same time, all from the same period and with similar surface deposits. Here are the before and after photos... I was really pleased at how this one turned out... the portrait of Volusian is one of the nicest I have seen, and this was an emperor that I was chasing for some time, without success (apologies for my bad "after" bad photos).

 

 

In earlier times, I would be more zealous in going after badly photographed coins, and remember scoring a nice drachm of Taras for $50 that way which turned out to be quite genuine many years ago. On the misattributed side, my niche specialization of collecting Messapian mints from Magna Grecia sometimes yields surprises, like this Ae of Graxa which would normally hammer at auction for 2-3X the price I paid: 

 

 

Sometimes, it's just items that are posted in the wrong places, like this medallion of Napoleon from 1806, which was in with the true ancients that no one seemed to want. I bought it for $38 all in, which seems low, given that these can go for $150-200 at auctions. Not my area of collecting, but it seemed too good to pass up. Again, the piece appears to be genuine, based on others I have seen...

That being said, I have also occasionally been stung by a few fakes (which I now always report and get a refund). Most of the time, I wind up paying at or above the going market rate for most of my purchases as there are always others bidding up the coin (you only need one other person who wants it to snipe it at the very end). Still, given the crazy auction prices these days, combined with rich shipping and hammer fees, I keep coming back to look for those diamonds in the rough on EBay, despite the plethora of fakes and wading through much of the same crappy coins that never seem to find a buyer. It's definitely a marathon rather than a sprint!

[Orange Julius]

@JAZ Numismatics Thank you!

@ela126 thanks, I agree. It’s fun to sniff out something others missed… although sometimes you find you’re not the only one to notice!

@Romismatist Great score! That Volusian is a beauty! How’d you clean it? That obverse is great and I love how it retains the toning/patina after removing the crud. Nice job. I’ve been stung by a few fakes… although with most, I know it’s a likelihood beforehand and take the chance anyway sometimes, then get the refund. Other times, it works out and what looks dodgy is a great coin in bad lighting or scanned by a scanner.

Later I’ll post some disappointments.

For now… I’m ever looking for this situation:

Edited March 30 by Orange Julius

[Marsyas Mike]

Great snag, @Orange Julius.   I too seek out the iffy photos, nice coins - from the same seller, apparently, here's my Gordian III sestertius ($32.95):

Seller photo:

My photo:

Here's another one that was a pleasant surprise - Trebonianus Gallus Temple antoninianus:

Seller's photo:

My photo: 

[Herodotus]

A few years back, I was the winning bidder of this coin in an eBay auction(Hammer: $173.51 +$10 shipping).

After receiving the coin (and pleased with the transaction), the seller messaged me a few days later. He mentioned that he had a few more coins that his late cousin had left him, and asked if I would be interested in purchasing them together as a lot outside of eBay. He claimed that he didn't want to take the time to list them individually, and that he would take a reasonable offer.

Of course, my scam-sensor started pinging. Yet, the guy seemed legit. He maintained a solid seller feedback history, and he also had a brick & mortar (watch-repair)business (associated with his name) on a card that came with the above coin.

So, I said I would take a look, and he sent me the below photos. Still fairly new to collecting at the time, I wasn't really too sure what I was looking at. So, I figured $20 per coin for the larger coins was a safe bet, and $25 for the rest.  He accepted my $125 offer, and the coins arrived a few days later. I notified the seller that I received them, and I thanked him. He also thanked me for making it convenient for him to take them off his hands.

He had used the proceeds to go out for a nice Sushi dinner with his wife.

 

Includes: Severus Alexander, Hadrian, Antoninus Pius and Nero Claudius Drusus Sestertii; a Galba Alexandrian Bi Tet; Macrinus; a couple Byzantines, and a cool-looking Medieval weight(?)

I think I scored pretty 'lucky' on this transaction; the Boeotian Stater too, for that matter.

 

Edited March 30 by Herodotus

[seth77]

The pic was rather blurry but it wasn't cheap. Still a good buy.

 

[Amarmur]

3 flea market buys I paid $25 for 3 coins the Carthage horse is especially stunning. The Cimmerian Bosporus coin is pretty neat and the Syracuse bronze is common but is in around Fine shape I seen a lot worse. 
 

My best eBay find was this Lucius Verus Sestertius for $20. It was unidentified. It is an Armenia Capta coin!

[Harry G]

This is probably the worst case of "bad seller photos, nice coin" that I've experienced:

eBay seller's pics:

Auction pics from when I sold it:

Edited March 30 by Harry G

[ela126]

Just yesterday I snagged this off eBay for 16 dollars shipped, bought it probably Within 10 minutes of posting… some massive reseller.. even comes with an old Littleton tag. Also hoping the obverse picture is taken poorly.

what makes it a deal is that N on the reverse between the I B. A rather special SB 854 with a total of 5 examples on acsearch. CNG has some better sold examples for 150-250 15 years ago. For 16 dollars, I’m thrilled.

[Nerosmyfavorite68]

I struggled to think of a first example, although there have been such coins.  I suppose this Aemilian would fit the bill for worked out.  Not only was it fairly cheap, 195 Euros, in-hand it looks basically like a regular Ant with deposits.  Much less bad than the photo.  It's not so much a 'bad' photo; it's just difficult to photograph.  The spots aren't as obvious in person.

Aemilian
AR Antoninianus, Rome, 253.
21 x 22 mm - 3.41 g

IMP AEMILIANVS PIVS FEL AVG
Radiate, draped and cuirassed bust of Aemilian to right
R/ PACI AVG
Pax standing left, leaning on column with her legs crossed, holding branch in her right hand and transverse scepter in her left.
 

Cohen 26. RIC 8

 

The crushing disappointment is easy.  It wasn't so much the cost, which was 80-something dollars, it was the opportunity cost.  I now would have to spend a lot more to get another Nero as Caesar denarius. Furthermore, I never did receive satisfaction - over a cheap coih.  Although to be fair, I had recently picked up some delightful coins from that dealer. My orders were way cut back, for two reasons; that, and I was afraid of getting anything fragile or small, because of the el cheapo, floppy mailer.  I had to go DHL Express for anything decent, doubling the cost of shipping.

It was bad luck; I ordered it during the Christmas rush and the packing was sub-par.  But hey, the droopy mailer is environmentally-friendly!

Here's the coin before being snapped in half.  If the Philip Dacia provincial had been damaged I wouldn't have cared as much.

To paraphrase Aaron Berk from one of his podcasts, a buying relationship can be going along dreamily with a dealer...until it's not (i.e. the first problem pops up).

Nero (Caesar, 50-54). AR Denarius (19mm, 3.23g, 12h). Rome, AD 51. Bareheaded and draped young bust l. R/ Simpulum above tripod; on r., lituus above patera. RIC I 77 (Claudius); RSC 312.

 

[Roman Collector]

My cherry picks have all been due to misattribution on the part of the dealer. This one, for example, was misattributed as a sestertius, but I recognized it for the dupondius it is because the reverse die matched the specimen illustrated by Strack (see image, below).  There are four other examples known:

1. Paris specimen cited by Cohen and Strack.
2. Naples specimen cited by Strack.
3. Yale University Art Gallery 2009.110.36 = Münzhandlung Basel (Auction 1), June 28, 1934, pl. 29, 1171, 4., cited by Strack.
4. Specimen owned by collector captnCoin at Coin Talk. Here's a link to his post on my four-year-old thread about the coin.

Mine is a fifth known example. It was overlooked by the condition cranks at auction and hammered for 35 GBP. Including shipping and all fees, it was less than $75.

Here is my specimen, ex-Bertolami.

 

Faustina Senior, AD 138-141.
Roman orichalcum dupondius, 16.19 g, 26.1 mm, 10 h.
Rome, AD 140-141.
Obv: DIVA AVGVSTA FAVSTINA, bare-headed and draped bust, right.
Rev: CONSECRATIO S C, Funerary ustrinum in three stories, set on base, ornamented and garlanded, surmounted by Faustina in biga right.
Refs: RIC 1189; BMCRE p. 236 *; Cohen 187; RCV --; Strack 1238.
Notes: Bertolami E-Auction 61, lot 550, 9 September 2018.

Here is the Paris specimen, Cohen 187.

 

The Yale University specimen. It has quite a provenance: Evans, Lawrence, von Koblitz, and Dr. Hans Steger, to 1933; Cahn, Frankfurt, Feburary 27, 1933, cat. 80, lot 740; Erzherzog Friedrich; Munzhandlung Basel, Basel, June 27, 1934, cat. 1, lot 1171; Walter Niggeler, to 1967; Bank Leu–Munzen and Medaillen (?), and ultimately to Yale University, 2009.

 

Here is the same specimen, as illustrated in Strack, citing the Münzhandlung Basel coin.

Here is captnCoin's specimen he posted at Coin Talk.

Unsurprisingly, all these examples were struck with the same reverse die. I have been unable to find an image of the Naples coin cited by Strack.

Edited March 30 by Roman Collector

[DonnaML]

16 hours ago, Romismatist said:

Sometimes, it's just items that are posted in the wrong places, like this medallion of Napoleon from 1806, which was in with the true ancients that no one seemed to want. I bought it for $38 all in, which seems low, given that these can go for $150-200 at auctions. Not my area of collecting, but it seemed too good to pass up. Again, the piece appears to be genuine, based on others I have seen...

 

I have no doubt that this is a genuine example of the 1805 Surrender of Ulm & Memmingen medal (some catalog numbers are Bramsen 433, Zeitz 56, Sammlung Julius 1414, Trésor Numismatique Vol. 18, No. 8.16, etc.). My only question would be whether it's an original or a restrike. If it has a hallmark-type symbol of some kind on the edge, then it's a restrike (the approximate year can be determined by the symbol); if the edge is blank then it's probably an original.

[seth77]

2 hours ago, Nerosmyfavorite68 said:

I struggled to think of a first example, although there have been such coins.  I suppose this Aemilian would fit the bill for worked out.  Not only was it fairly cheap, 195 Euros, in-hand it looks basically like a regular Ant with deposits.  Much less bad than the photo.  It's not so much a 'bad' photo; it's just difficult to photograph.  The spots aren't as obvious in person.

Aemilian
AR Antoninianus, Rome, 253.
21 x 22 mm - 3.41 g

IMP AEMILIANVS PIVS FEL AVG
Radiate, draped and cuirassed bust of Aemilian to right
R/ PACI AVG
Pax standing left, leaning on column with her legs crossed, holding branch in her right hand and transverse scepter in her left.
 

Cohen 26. RIC 8

 

The crushing disappointment is easy.  It wasn't so much the cost, which was 80-something dollars, it was the opportunity cost.  I now would have to spend a lot more to get another Nero as Caesar denarius. Furthermore, I never did receive satisfaction - over a cheap coih.  Although to be fair, I had recently picked up some delightful coins from that dealer. My orders were way cut back, for two reasons; that, and I was afraid of getting anything fragile or small, because of the el cheapo, floppy mailer.  I had to go DHL Express for anything decent, doubling the cost of shipping.

It was bad luck; I ordered it during the Christmas rush and the packing was sub-par.  But hey, the droopy mailer is environmentally-friendly!

Here's the coin before being snapped in half.  If the Philip Dacia provincial had been damaged I wouldn't have cared as much.

To paraphrase Aaron Berk from one of his podcasts, a buying relationship can be going along dreamily with a dealer...until it's not (i.e. the first problem pops up).

Nero (Caesar, 50-54). AR Denarius (19mm, 3.23g, 12h). Rome, AD 51. Bareheaded and draped young bust l. R/ Simpulum above tripod; on r., lituus above patera. RIC I 77 (Claudius); RSC 312.

 

Oh man I remember that horrible delivery fiasco. And what an interesting coin that was, even worn as it was, it looked great.

[Nerosmyfavorite68]

What's worse, I never got a refund/store credit.

The Constantine IV large follis would have been much more of a crushing disappointment, but that was the fault of the post office, not the dealer.  Luckily, the Constantine IV was a phantom listing and not in stock.

[Sulla80]

This one had a pretty decent photo from the seller:

although color in hand is more like my photo - the original a bit overexposed:

Italy- Sicily.  AE Hexas, 20mm, 8.63g, of Akragas (Agrigentum), circa 425-406BCE, obverse; eagle standing right, wings spread, a dead hare in its talons, reverse; a crab, beneath which two tunny fishes right, two pellets in field, to left and to right, S-1024

[Orange Julius]

19 hours ago, Marsyas Mike said:

Great snag, @Orange Julius.   I too seek out the iffy photos, nice coins - from the same seller, apparently, here's my Gordian III sestertius ($32.95):

Seller photo:

My photo:

Here's another one that was a pleasant surprise - Trebonianus Gallus Temple antoninianus:

Seller's photo:

My photo: 

@Marsyas Mike Haha, hunters in the same forest. That Gordian is much nicer that it appears in the seller’s photos. That same seller has a really nice Galerius follis that I’ve considered buying… but although still a good deal, it’s priced a bit high to be a great deal.

@Herodotus That shield coin is a beauty with just the right level of toning. Those other coins were a great buy too. I’m a sucker for anything from Alexandria.

@seth77 I’m not as familiar with medieval coins. What is it and what makes it special (I’m sure it is, but interested in why)?

@Amarmur What a great buy! $25 for those 3 is a steal. I’ve dreamed at finding coins at a flea market or garage sale set in costume jewelry but have yet to have it happen. $20 for that historic type for LV is great too!

@Nerosmyfavorite68 I have yet to snag an Aemilian and have been hunting for a deal on one but… they’re scarce and even on eBay draw attention. I remember that Nero too, sad thing that it broke. I once bought an Egyptian Eye of Horus that arrived smashed. I got a refund but was super bummed out. I still have the pieces.

@ela126 Oooh is that a late Byzantine Alexandrian coin? Who is it? Love that. I find coins of regions that were slipping away or briefly recaptured during that time period very interesting. Coins of Carthage, Rome, Alexandria in the Byzantine era are very cool.

@Roman Collector Love that coin too, I remember reading your original write up on it. Consecratio coins are so cool. I’ve considered a side collection of just those. I think the last funeral pyre type was minted by Claudius II.

@Harry G Oh that Decentius is a gem! I actually thought about you when creating this post as you seem to have a love for rare 3rd and 4th century stuff. That Laelianus you have is a dream coin and you always seem to have interesting Claudius II and Aurelian coins as well. You’re likely my bidding competition that I loose out to for some of these coins haha!

For wins… I also have this Domitian bought on eBay for $9. I could see a bit of silver poking out and suspected it was a nice encrusted denarius… and it was. It’s still not full cleaned. I like it but these days, I kind of wish I’d left it encrusted as you done see many 1st century silver coins “as found.”

Oh and for anyone that didn’t catch the joke above with the eBay Sold screenshot… that’s a coin (1 of I think about 3 known) of Domitian II. Ugly but rare and something I could see poping up on eBay, although I’m sure it would not go unnoticed.

Edited March 30 by Orange Julius

[Victor_Clark]

 

I bought the coin below in 2013 from a seller in France for less than $5...the shipping was more expensive than the coin.

 

seller's photo

 

[ela126]

59 minutes ago, Orange Julius said:

@ela126 Oooh is that a late Byzantine Alexandrian coin? Who is it? Love that. I find coins of regions that were slipping away or briefly recaptured during that time period very interesting. Coins of Carthage, Rome, Alexandria in the Byzantine era are very cool.

It’s a Heraclius from Alexandria, yes. From some brief research it’s prior to the Sassanid occupation in 618-628. The N, from an article I just found about Heraclian Alexandria pieces is due to Carthage die cutters coming to Alexandria and making this coin. The N simply signifies Nummi.

i have seen a number of the heavily encrusted silver pieces which do seem to go for good deals, what was your cleaning process on that coin? I only collect Byzantine but I’ve debated purchasing a few heavily encrusted silver pieces to test out that process.

[Orange Julius]

@Victor_Clark That shield Chi-Rho is a much sought after coin, that’s a great find. There are some finds to be had out there if you’re persistent. I remember when you found that otherwise unknown Constantine reverse on eBay. I was watching that one and bid (what I thought was) high but was blown out of the water! A cool coin and very cool that you helped it find a place in the city where it was minted.

@ela126 That’s an interesting note on your coin, matching it to a very specific moment in history. Congrats. As for my coin, I just used toothpicks and fingernails… so no scratches. However there’s still some black staining from the crud that someday I need to clean as it’s distracting and makes the coin look a bit crappier than it is.

@Sulla80 That’s a great crab (I need one!) and much nicer than it looks in the seller’s photos. Coins are hard to photograph, so seeing past those bad photographs is a skill that can have its rewards.

Edited March 30 by Orange Julius

[Romismatist]

7 hours ago, DonnaML said:

I have no doubt that this is a genuine example of the 1805 Surrender of Ulm & Memmingen medal (some catalog numbers are Bramsen 433, Zeitz 56, Sammlung Julius 1414, Trésor Numismatique Vol. 18, No. 8.16, etc.). My only question would be whether it's an original or a restrike. If it has a hallmark-type symbol of some kind on the edge, then it's a restrike (the approximate year can be determined by the symbol); if the edge is blank then it's probably an original.

Thanks, @DonnaML! I had no idea of this distinction. When I look on the edge, there is indeed a hallmark-type symbol and the word "BRONZE", so I guess it's a restrike. Would these still have been struck around this period, or much more recently? Still a nice medal, in any event...

[Victor_Clark]

2 hours ago, Orange Julius said:

I remember when you found that otherwise unknown Constantine reverse on eBay. I was watching that one and bid (what I thought was) high but was blown out of the water! A cool coin and very cool that you helped it find a place in the city where it was minted.

 

Here are the original auction pics for the previously unknown type...center top coin

 

 

 

 

Constantine I
Circa A.D. 313
21mm    3.7gm
IMP C CONSTANTINVS P F AVG; laureate and cuirassed bust right.
VICTORIA [AETERNA AVGG NN]; Emperor on right, in military dress, holding spear, receiving palm branch from Victory; kneeling figure between them [holding offering].
In exergue SARL

 

 

[DonnaML]

44 minutes ago, Romismatist said:

Thanks, @DonnaML! I had no idea of this distinction. When I look on the edge, there is indeed a hallmark-type symbol and the word "BRONZE", so I guess it's a restrike. Would these still have been struck around this period, or much more recently? Still a nice medal, in any event...

@Romismatist, the answer depends on nature of the symbol, but it must have been issued sometime between 1832 (when hallmarks or privy marks were first added to restrikes) and 1965 (after which the specific year of the restrike was added to the edge). See https://blog.cgb.fr/une-semaine-une-medaille--n-19-,9151.html :

"01/09/2017

The medal market is not yet very well developed, but it was in the past... it seems that this market has been neglected by most French professionals. And in the absence of material offered to collectors, collectors were interested in other things!

In any case, prices are often quite subjective, with few references available regarding the prices achieved. Period strikes are naturally more appreciated than later restrikes ... how can we recognize them? It would be relevant to recall the different hallmarks used in France. Adopted in 1832, this system of hallmarks has since been obligatory for medals. The edge must bear a hallmark which determines the period at which it was struck, as well as the nature of the metal; ZINC, COPPER, BRONZE, SILVER or GOLD for example.

Seven different hallmarks allow us to know the time of manufacture;

- the antique lamp is used between 1832 and 1841.

- the anchor (with a C) is used between 1841 and 1842.

- the ship's bow is used between 1842 and 1845.

- the hand is used between 1845 and 1860.

- the bee is used between 1860 and 1879.

- the pipe is used only in December 1879

- the cornucopia has been used since 1880.

Other geometric punches, in the shape of a square, diamond or triangle, are only brands of private manufacturers."

Edited March 31 by DonnaML

[Orange Julius]

35 minutes ago, Victor_Clark said:

 

Here are the original auction pics for the previously unknown type...center top coin

 

 

 

 

Constantine I
Circa A.D. 313
21mm    3.7gm
IMP C CONSTANTINVS P F AVG; laureate and cuirassed bust right.
VICTORIA [AETERNA AVGG NN]; Emperor on right, in military dress, holding spear, receiving palm branch from Victory; kneeling figure between them [holding offering].
In exergue SARL

 

 

Thanks for sharing the photo! That was a cool snag. If I remember right, this one was minted after the defeat of Maxentius and likely along side of the coins commemorating the move of the Ostia mint to Arles… this is from memory, so if I’m wrong let me know!

This find reminds me of @Finn235, who I know hunts lots for interesting tidbits. I’m sure he has some good find stories.