lordmarcovan Posted December 13, 2023 · Member Share Posted December 13, 2023 Just received this from Germany. The rim nick is accurately described in the auction, but I originally viewed it in the original German (which I don't speak), and overlooked it in the photos until too late. Too bad- the coin is otherwise decent, but the rim damage is pretty evident. I should have looked more carefully (and translated the description) before bidding. I have inquired about a return. If they don't accept returns, I suppose I will just have to sell it at a loss. Lesson learned. It's not a bad example, aside from the rim hit. https://auktion.rhenumis.de/en-us/auctions/lots/33459 10 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayAg47 Posted December 13, 2023 · Member Share Posted December 13, 2023 The first thing that attracted me is the spectacular portrait of Caligula, next the detailed reverse. The nick absolutely did not detract anything for me. But I get why you may feel frustrated given the price you paid for the coin! 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lordmarcovan Posted December 13, 2023 · Member Author Share Posted December 13, 2023 It's my own fault. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Conduitt Posted December 13, 2023 · Supporter Share Posted December 13, 2023 I've done that a few times. The spectacular portrait distracts you long enough that you don't analyse the coin until you have to pay for it. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lordmarcovan Posted December 13, 2023 · Member Author Share Posted December 13, 2023 4 minutes ago, John Conduitt said: I've done that a few times. The spectacular portrait distracts you long enough that you don't analyse the coin until you have to pay for it. Exactly what happened here. And I do think €360 would have been a good price, if not for the rim hit. My question is, is that "about right" for the coin as-is? The rim cut is just noticeable enough for it to be the kiss of death for my personal collection, but someone else might not mind it so much. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furryfrog02 Posted December 13, 2023 · Supporter Share Posted December 13, 2023 I'll buy it from you Rob... 1 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lordmarcovan Posted December 13, 2023 · Member Author Share Posted December 13, 2023 10 minutes ago, Furryfrog02 said: I'll buy it from you Rob... SOLD! If your dollar looks like this: 3 1 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Limes Posted December 13, 2023 · Supporter Share Posted December 13, 2023 55 minutes ago, lordmarcovan said: Just received this from Germany. The rim nick is accurately described in the auction, but I originally viewed it in the original German (which I don't speak), and overlooked it in the photos until too late. Too bad- the coin is otherwise decent, but the rim damage is pretty evident. I should have looked more carefully (and translated the description) before bidding. I have inquired about a return. If they don't accept returns, I suppose I will just have to sell it at a loss. Lesson learned. It's not a bad example, aside from the rim hit. https://auktion.rhenumis.de/en-us/auctions/lots/33459 Its a nice coin with a great portrait, I must say the rim issue doesnt look that horrible in the photo. I can see why you did not see the gravity of it. And in hand issues can be not that bad in comparison to a photo, or the other way around and even be worse. Too bad... Also on the reverse, there appears to be a small corrosion spot. Below the C, at the edge. Is it active? You might put that forward to the auctioneer too. But hey, on the positive side, you got the coin already! Mine are still stuck in German postal purgatory.... 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lordmarcovan Posted December 13, 2023 · Member Author Share Posted December 13, 2023 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lordmarcovan Posted December 13, 2023 · Member Author Share Posted December 13, 2023 At least the hit looks ancient. It's got patina in it. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marsyas Mike Posted December 13, 2023 · Member Share Posted December 13, 2023 Gee whiz! I like it! A nick like this doesn't bother me at all. But then I'm a coin-slob... Does it matter that it is mis-attributed? It was sold as RIC 38 (136 specimens in OCRE). But the legends on yours match RIC 54 (18 specimens) - meaning yours is rarer? There is also RIC 47 (8 specimens) that seems identical to RIC 54, but OCRE often baffles me this way. So, again, I think yours might be far scarcer than the as sold attribution? RIC 38: C CAESAR AVG GERMANICVS PON M TR POT RIC 54: C CAESAR DIVI AVG PRON AVG P M TR P IIII P P http://numismatics.org/ocre/results?q=deity_facet%3A"Vesta"+AND+portrait_facet%3A"Gaius%2FCaligula" 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Limes Posted December 13, 2023 · Supporter Share Posted December 13, 2023 3 hours ago, lordmarcovan said: This photo shows it better, and makes it worse indeed! Hopefully the seller replies to your request. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benefactor DonnaML Posted December 13, 2023 · Benefactor Benefactor Share Posted December 13, 2023 (edited) I think what you paid is actually a reasonable price even taking the rim nick into account, considering how nice your coin is apart from the nick (other than that, how was the play, Mrs. Lincoln?), the fact that I paid about $300 for my substantially more mediocre example a few years ago, and the prices that Caligula's Vesta bronzes are currently selling for at retail. See my post from a few minutes ago at https://www.numisforums.com/topic/5480-caligula-a-rare-denarius-with-germanicus-and-a-fantastic-provenance/#comment-71071 . Edited December 13, 2023 by DonnaML 5 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curtisimo Posted December 13, 2023 · Supporter Share Posted December 13, 2023 (edited) @lordmarcovan, I agree with Donna. IMO that is a great coin with an excellent provenance. I know you’re probably concerned about getting it graded, but with a nice coin from an old collection like this I would consider leaving it raw and keeping it. My new Caligula has its flaws as well but it is one of my favorite coins of the year. Edited December 13, 2023 by Curtisimo 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benefactor robinjojo Posted December 13, 2023 · Benefactor Benefactor Share Posted December 13, 2023 6 hours ago, lordmarcovan said: Just received this from Germany. The rim nick is accurately described in the auction, but I originally viewed it in the original German (which I don't speak), and overlooked it in the photos until too late. Too bad- the coin is otherwise decent, but the rim damage is pretty evident. I should have looked more carefully (and translated the description) before bidding. I have inquired about a return. If they don't accept returns, I suppose I will just have to sell it at a loss. Lesson learned. It's not a bad example, aside from the rim hit. https://auktion.rhenumis.de/en-us/auctions/lots/33459 That's a really nice example. I understand your disappointment with the edge nick, but for me that isn't a major factor. This coin is ancient, hammer struck, thousands of years old and not a modern coin, where nicks and bumps are much more of a factor. As mentioned the portrait is wonderful, the legends are full and the reverse is very nice. Ancient coins and hammered modern coins, such as cobs, have a nature about them that makes the results of circulation, including surface deposits, surface marks, edge nicks, etc. a secondary consideration, at best. I think you have a keeper! 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benefactor robinjojo Posted December 13, 2023 · Benefactor Benefactor Share Posted December 13, 2023 Given the shape of the nick, I wonder if it might actually be a flan flaw such as a bubble? Judging from the photos the inner surface of the depression seems very even, bubble-like in shape. I would expect to see more of a point-of-impact in the center, spreading outwards. Now it is possible that a blunt, round tool might have been used that would create this effect. This is just speculation on my part. A wonderful coin in my view. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Grant Posted December 13, 2023 · Member Share Posted December 13, 2023 That's a great coin,the nick does not detract.keep it in your Collection. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benefactor LONGINUS Posted December 13, 2023 · Benefactor Benefactor Share Posted December 13, 2023 7 hours ago, lordmarcovan said: At least the hit looks ancient. It's got patina in it. Great post @lordmarcovan! If it’s an ancient nick the coin could have historical significance. It may have saved someone’s life by deflecting a weapon 😉 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPK Posted December 13, 2023 · Supporter Share Posted December 13, 2023 That's a very nice coin and well worth the price, even with the nick. Personally it wouldn't bother me at all. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lordmarcovan Posted December 13, 2023 · Member Author Share Posted December 13, 2023 Thanks, all. It's not quite a keeper for me, but I'm glad to see it's getting some of the love it does deserve, for its better qualities. If I can't return it, then maybe I'll recoup most of my money on it. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lordmarcovan Posted December 13, 2023 · Member Author Share Posted December 13, 2023 3 hours ago, robinjojo said: Given the shape of the nick, I wonder if it might actually be a flan flaw such as a bubble? Judging from the photos the inner surface of the depression seems very even, bubble-like in shape. I would expect to see more of a point-of-impact in the center, spreading outwards. Now it is possible that a blunt, round tool might have been used that would create this effect. This is just speculation on my part. A wonderful coin in my view. No, it's definitely a cut-like heavy hit, I'm afraid. It doesn't affect the reverse rim, but you can see it in the obverse pic (and in my hasty cellphone closeup). If it were a lesser nick, I'd live with it, but it's heavy enough for me to (regretfully) decide that this particular coin isn't quite for me. Otherwise I'd have happily decided to keep it. I don't know as much as most of you when it comes to ancients- and the auction house's apparent misattribution was news to me (albeit interesting and possibly good news). I don't have the scholarly tendency and I'm not good at attributions, for example. But the one thing I do feel confident about with ancients is that I like to believe I've got a pretty good eye for quality, if nothing else. So I do try to be selective. Sure, with ancients, some things can be forgiven (my Justinian tremissis has a wrinkled flan, for instance), but I know something like this particular issue would continue to bug me. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amarmur Posted December 14, 2023 · Member Share Posted December 14, 2023 To console you. I didn't realize my Caligula had surface issues when buying it. It is still my favorite coin in my ancient coin collection because of the strong VF/XF details and portrait. A nice portrait of Caligula is hard to get so if the nick wasn't there on your coin it would be like a $600-$700 coin in that shape. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marsyas Mike Posted December 14, 2023 · Member Share Posted December 14, 2023 And in any case, you call that a nick? Now here's a nick for ya - I bought this on eBay because I really loved the overall appearance. The giant obverse gash appears to be ancient, as it is toned/patinated along with the rest of the coin. 5 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lordmarcovan Posted December 14, 2023 · Member Author Share Posted December 14, 2023 2 hours ago, Marsyas Mike said: And in any case, you call that a nick? Now here's a nick for ya - I bought this on eBay because I really loved the overall appearance. The giant obverse gash appears to be ancient, as it is toned/patinated along with the rest of the coin. Almost looks like a damnatio! 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marsyas Mike Posted December 14, 2023 · Member Share Posted December 14, 2023 13 minutes ago, lordmarcovan said: Almost looks like a damnatio! I know! But I thought everybody liked Marcus Aurelius? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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