Phil Anthos Posted December 10, 2023 · Member Share Posted December 10, 2023 (edited) I've had this Tarentine obol for awhile, and always had it listed as 'unpublished', as I bought it. The new D'Andrea books on the Tarentine series have finally given me a published reference, however the device in the right field, listed there as 'amphora (?)' is questionable. I have always listed it as a crown but that's never really satisfied me either. The only monarch during this period would be Pyrrhus, but he was never the king of Taras. And I'm pretty sure it's not a rutabaga. Or Sputnik. So I'm asking if anybody has any thoughts about this symbol which even D'Andrea is uncertain of. Thank you in advance. Taras, Calabria 276-272 BC AR Obol (11mm, 0.42g) O: Kantharos; Φ and two pellets around. R: Kantharos; two pellets around and crown (amphora?) to right. D'Andrea XLII, 1274 (amphora?); Vlasto ---; Cote---; McClean ---; McGill ---; HN Italy 1076; Sear 357v Rare ex Pop Numismatik ~ Peter Edited December 10, 2023 by Phil Anthos 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xeno Posted December 10, 2023 · Member Share Posted December 10, 2023 Crown is the closest thing I can think of although I doubt that's what it is. Hopefully somebody will find the answer for you! It can astound me sometimes how they can attribute these tiny designs that can be a little vague. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brennos Posted December 10, 2023 · Member Share Posted December 10, 2023 Maybe a trident head but without much conviction 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewomack Posted December 10, 2023 · Supporter Share Posted December 10, 2023 Nice obol. Diogenes of Sinope thought philosophers were worth three of these. Strangely, I woke up this morning thinking about that very SNL skit. And here it is. Very bizarre. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryro Posted December 10, 2023 · Supporter Share Posted December 10, 2023 My first thought would be an upside down tripod or the Hemhem crown: Kassander 305-298 BCE AE 20 Uncertain Macedonian mint. laureate head of Apollo right ΒΑΣΙΛΕΩΣ / ΚΑΣΣΑΝΔΡΟΥ, legend vertically downwards to right and left of tripod; to left, A (tipped ccw), to right, kerykion. SNG Alpha Bank 895-6; SNG München 1030. VF, dark green patina Trajan, Bronze dichalkon, Emmett 707, F, a bit rough, ragged flan, 1.660g, 14.3mm, 0o, Alexandria mint, 25 Jan 98 - 8/9 Aug 117 A.D.; obverse no legend, laureate head right; reverse no legend, Hemhem crown, date in lower field divided by ram horns; from the Ray Nouri Collection I'm sure neither are correct, but spit baling ideas 7 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roman Collector Posted December 10, 2023 · Patron Share Posted December 10, 2023 1 1 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Anthos Posted December 10, 2023 · Member Author Share Posted December 10, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, Ryro said: My first thought would be an upside down tripod or the Hemhem crown: I thought of an upside down tripod too, because it does kinda look like that. But then I thought 'why?'. A defeat over the Bruttians in an epic drinking game perhaps? 🙂 Edited December 10, 2023 by Phil Anthos 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deinomenid Posted December 10, 2023 · Supporter Share Posted December 10, 2023 I'm ~with trident too. Tridents appear on the same (albeit larger) coins as amphora on coins of Taras and given the more limited real estate... However, re hemhems there has been speculation about Ptolemaic interest in Italy and treaties with Rome exactly when that coin was minted. How that would involved Tarentum is difficult to see though as it's mostly written about as an appendage to how Rome first got hold of sufficient silver to coin which is outside my area of any knowledge. There are though theories that as Tarentum was clearly dying as a power when that coin was minted (it was still semi-independent though with a garrison from Epirus) Egypt was becoming concerned about who would fill the gap as Magna Graecia declined - her choices were Rome or Carthage and Carthage was right then the bad choice. Anyway, in 273BC there was an Alexandrine embassy to Rome and it's possible they went through Tarentum as the route through the straits was extremely dangerous then, given Mamertine control of much of that area. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romismatist Posted December 11, 2023 · Member Share Posted December 11, 2023 From my perspective it may be a pomegranate, which I has appeared on Leukippus staters of Metapontum and litrae of Taras (see Type 826, page 209 and pictures page 238 in D'Andrea's book, Volume II). Not exactly the same, but closer than a trident IMHO. Hard to really see the details on these small coins. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broucheion Posted December 11, 2023 · Member Share Posted December 11, 2023 (edited) 8 hours ago, Phil Anthos said: So I'm asking if anybody has any thoughts about this symbol which even D'Andrea is uncertain of. Thank you in advance. Hi @Phil Anthos, The symbol looks like an Egyptian crown of Isis. Here is one on a later coin of Roman Egypt. I also don’t know about an Alexandrine-Tarantine relationship but @Deinomenid‘s explanation now seems very interesting. Maybe a show of Ptolemaic support via a supply of silver? - Broucheion Edited December 11, 2023 by Broucheion 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursus Posted December 11, 2023 · Supporter Share Posted December 11, 2023 Maybe: naval ram pointing upwards? See the picture of the Athlit ram below for comparison. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panzerman Posted December 11, 2023 · Member Share Posted December 11, 2023 Nice coin/ a topic for "Unsolved Mysteries"! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Anthos Posted December 14, 2023 · Member Author Share Posted December 14, 2023 (edited) Okay, a lot to ponder. I'm not sure I buy into any of these suggestions but there are now more ideas to rattle around and thanks to you all. The Ptolemaic influence in the region is undeniable, especially in Syracuse and Bruttium, but if this influence reached Taras and manifested symbolically I'm not aware of it, although it could very possibly be true. I'm not going to change my attribution yet, but I'll certainly keep thinking about it. Thanks again for all the suggestions, ~ Peter Edited December 15, 2023 by Phil Anthos 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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