Finally picked up a Starr Group II owl

[robinjojo]

I have examples of owls for groups III to V, but finding a decent and "affordable" example of a Group II owl is much more of challenge.  I do not see any additional acquisitions for this particular group on my part.

This owl was produced in the years following the second Greek - Persian war.  Athens was still recovering from the occupation by the Persian army under Xerxes I, an occupation that resulted in the destruction of much of Athens.  This was a time of reconstruction of the city and experimentation in the design of the owls issued by the mint.  

The extremely rare Starr Group I owls are truly a bridge between the older archaic owls and what would become the standardized classical owls that were produced in very large quantities from around 440 to 404 BC.  These coins exhibit much of the same elements of the archaic owls, with the addition of three laurel leaves running across the edge of Athena's helmet on the obverse, and the inclusion of a crescent moon to the left of the owl on the reverse.

The Group II owls, including the decadrachms, tetradrachms, didrachrms and drachms retained these modifications.  They also include design styles for the obverse and reverse that provide the basis for subsequent iterations of the classical owl design.  The obverse relief is generally very high, harkening back to some of the archaic owls.  The facial features are more refined, including the archaic "smile".  On the reverse, the owl is in somewhat lower relief compared to many of the archaic examples, but the engraving is done with more care.  While the stance of the owl is quite stiff, this same design is vastly improved in the Starr Group IV to V owls, which include some of the most beautiful reverse owls in the classical series. 

Additionally, it appears that the reverse dies for the Group II owls wore more rapidly than the obverse dies, as can be seen with this example.  It could be that the available reverse dies were more limited in number and therefore used beyond their life expectancy - just a guess on my part.  

The Group II owls vary in strike and flan quality.  It seems that the mint, recovering from the effects of the war, along with the issuance of the two new denominations, the decadrachm and didrachm, might have experienced a shortage of skilled workers to produce this outpouring of coinage - again a speculation on my part.  Suffice to say that some Group II owls were struck off center, and on crudely made flans. That makes finding a decently centered example on a well-shaped flan quite a challenge.
 

Athens, tetradrachm, circa 475-470 BC.

Starr Group II C

17.10 grams

So, please post your owls or anything else you wish!

Thanks

 

[AETHER]

Very nice, I see the archaic style in Athena, these are cool. congrats, beautiful coin.

[robinjojo]

Thanks!

The obverse style for the Starr Group II C tetrdrachms are very similar to the style of the decadrachms, possibly the same engraver.

This example is from CNG, Triton XIV, Lot: 124., which hammered for $375,000.  While that is a stratospheric hammer price, the coin is outstanding and one of the best examples around.

Here's a link:

https://www.cngcoins.com/Coin.aspx?CoinID=175228

 

[Di Nomos]

I look at all the owls you post, but this is without doubt my favourite. I love the coins from the decadrachm series, (the first ancient coin I saw in a magazine as a child was an Athenian decadrachm in the Bunker Hunt  collection, it got me hooked on ancient coins), and your new coin is a great example. Well done. 

[Deinomenid]

This was sold as a Starr Group 2. I'm fairly sure it is, though the feet worry me re fakery.

Agree with Di Nomos, I look at your owls with  interest.

 

[filolif]

Magnificent Starr II! A very difficult to acquire coin to be sure. Congrats on a lovely addition to your collection. Thanks for sharing.
 

My oldest Starr group owl is my Starr IV. I’ve attached a photo of the owl reverse. 

[filolif]

1 minute ago, Deinomenid said:

This was sold as a Starr Group 2. I'm fairly sure it is, though the feet worry me re fakery.

Agree with Di Nomos, I look at your owls with  interest.

 

This is almost certainly a Starr V. A very lovely set of dies through even with the test cut. 

Edited November 10, 2023 by filolif

[robinjojo]

6 minutes ago, Deinomenid said:

This was sold as a Starr Group 2. I'm fairly sure it is, though the feet worry me re fakery.

Agree with Di Nomos, I look at your owls with  interest.

 

I think the coin is okay. The flatness on the reverse is due to the test cut on the obverse.  As for the owl's feet, there might have been some die wear/erosion in that area, or possibly just poor engraving.

Your owl looks like a Starr Group V.A Series (3) type, based on the owl's three-prong tail.  The feathers eventually merge into one solid tail with three line down the middle.

[robinjojo]

15 minutes ago, filolif said:

Magnificent Starr II! A very difficult to acquire coin to be sure. Congrats on a lovely addition to your collection. Thanks for sharing.
 

My oldest Starr group owl is my Starr IV. I’ve attached a photo of the owl reverse. 

Nice owl reverse!  The group IV-V owls generally have finely engraved reverses.

[Deinomenid]

Thank you! And not thank  you  Leu cataloger! (I see they are taking  grief elsewhere on this site too  today!)

[Kali]

Stunning coin, congrats.

[filolif]

2 minutes ago, Deinomenid said:

Thank you! And not thank  you  Leu cataloger! (I see they are taking  grief elsewhere on this site too  today!)

It's interesting. I also bought an owl from Leu that was misidentified as completely the wrong Starr group. I have to believe they don't have his book over there or they just spin a wheel to determine what they'll call a coin. Very poor form by them.

[Kaleun96]

16 minutes ago, filolif said:

It's interesting. I also bought an owl from Leu that was misidentified as completely the wrong Starr group. I have to believe they don't have his book over there or they just spin a wheel to determine what they'll call a coin. Very poor form by them.

Yeah Leu is perhaps the worst in the game at identifying Starr group owls, at least the later ones from my experience. You wonder how they can be so bad for so long with the talent and resources that they have. 

[panzerman]

Beautifull coin! well done!

 

 

John

[robinjojo]

Here's a very general outline of the evolution of the style that evolved from Starr Group II.

Starr Group III

On the obverse, look for the spiral of the palmette to move towards the ear.  It is oriented much higher on a Group II owl.  Also, the fron laurel leaf is now higher, toucing the base of the crest. The portrait of Athena is larger, compared to Group II.  One the reverse, the owl's wing is longer, nearly touching the edge of the incuse frrame.  The AOE letters are more uneven in relationship to each other. The upper leaf of the olive branch still touches the owl's head.

 

 

Starr Group IV

(Sorry for the blurry photo)

Now the palmette is pointing directly at the upper part of the ear.  Athena's upper hairline continues to have a curve to it.  The relief is high.  On the reverse, the tail feathers are still separated, but now are above the rear tallon of its right foot.  The owl is now noticeably larger and in higher relief.  The wing tip now touches incuse frame.

 

 

Starr Group V

This is a somewhat early Group V owl.  The upper hairline is now essentially a contiuous smooth curve.  The palmette is still above the tip of the ear.  The laurel leaves are now flatter.  On the reverse, the owl's three-feather tail is now well above the feet and the wing feathers now merge with the incuse frame.  As with the previous groups, the AOE lettering remain uneven.

 

Here's a later Group V owl, with the palmeet now virtually touching the top of the ear lope.

 

Standardized Classical 

The palmette is now just above the ear.  On some coins the center tendrile of the palmette touches the upper ear or rim of the helmet.  The size of the palmette can vary, as weill as the porportions of the tendrils can vary.  The obverse is now flatter, generally speaking and the hair is rendered more coarsely.  On the reverse, the owl is in flatter relief and the AOE lettering is even.  All three tail feathers are now merged.

 

 

[happy_collector]

Great addition, @robinjojo!  I like your Starr II with a good portion of the crest. It is so nice to have such a collection of Starr II via V, plus the mass-produced Owl. Here is my Starr II, with just a minimal crest. 

Edited November 11, 2023 by happy_collector

[robinjojo]

16 minutes ago, happy_collector said:

Great addition, @robinjojo!  I like your Starr II with a good portion of the crest. It is so nice to have such a collection of Starr II via V, plus the mass-produced Owl. Here is my Starr II, with just a minimal crest. 

That's an excellent coin excellent centering, detail and surfaces!

[NewStyleKing]

How do we know it is a genuine style progression against a random die artists competence. Margaret Thompson in NSSCA had accordion sheets of the NewStyle obverses where individual artists can be traced. cf, Flinders Petrie seriation of Egyptian pots and things.

 

 

Edited November 11, 2023 by NewStyleKing

[Limes]

20 hours ago, robinjojo said:

Here's a very general outline of the evolution of the style that evolved from Starr Group II.

Starr Group III

On the obverse, look for the spiral of the palmette to move towards the ear.  It is oriented much higher on a Group II owl.  Also, the fron laurel leaf is now higher, toucing the base of the crest. The portrait of Athena is larger, compared to Group II.  One the reverse, the owl's wing is longer, nearly touching the edge of the incuse frrame.  The AOE letters are more uneven in relationship to each other. The upper leaf of the olive branch still touches the owl's head.

 

 

Starr Group IV

(Sorry for the blurry photo)

Now the palmette is pointing directly at the upper part of the ear.  Athena's upper hairline continues to have a curve to it.  The relief is high.  On the reverse, the tail feathers are still separated, but now are above the rear tallon of its right foot.  The owl is now noticeably larger and in higher relief.  The wing tip now touches incuse frame.

 

 

Starr Group V

This is a somewhat early Group V owl.  The upper hairline is now essentially a contiuous smooth curve.  The palmette is still above the tip of the ear.  The laurel leaves are now flatter.  On the reverse, the owl's three-feather tail is now well above the feet and the wing feathers now merge with the incuse frame.  As with the previous groups, the AOE lettering remain uneven.

 

Here's a later Group V owl, with the palmeet now virtually touching the top of the ear lope.

 

Standardized Classical 

The palmette is now just above the ear.  On some coins the center tendrile of the palmette touches the upper ear or rim of the helmet.  The size of the palmette can vary, as weill as the porportions of the tendrils can vary.  The obverse is now flatter, generally speaking and the hair is rendered more coarsely.  On the reverse, the owl is in flatter relief and the AOE lettering is even.  All three tail feathers are now merged.

 

 

Thanks for this! Im still have trouble seeing the differences, but I think with a bit of practice, I might finally see it. 

Love addition by the way, that is a cool coin. Here's my standardized classic issue. The holes so not justify a new Group to be created, they're not part of the design (joke...)

 

[robinjojo]

7 hours ago, NewStyleKing said:

How do we know it is a genuine style progression against a random die artists competence. Margaret Thompson in NSSCA had accordion sheets of the NewStyle obverses where individual artists can be traced. cf, Flinders Petrie seriation of Egyptian pots and things.

 

 

Good question!  Starr links the development of the tetradrachms and other denominations to historical events, such as the second Persian invasion and occupation of Athens in 480-479 BC, and examination of contemporary art, particularly vases   That point marks the demarcation between the archaic form and the start of the classical form. This is Starr's Group I owls.  These coins exhibit many of the design elements of the archaic owls, in terms of portraiture on the obverse and the owl on the reverse.  The flans also retain the "dumpy", thick narrow form.  What is added are the laurel leaves to the helmet and the crescent moon next to the owl.  Starr attributes these changes to post 479 BC, as they do not exist prior to the invasion.

Here's an excerpt from his work, Athenian Coinage, which outlines the general approach to attributing Group I owls and later groups. 

 

There is indeed considerable variation artistically from one group to another, even within a group.  This carried on into the mass production owls of 440-404 BC.  The purpose of the Starr groups is to create clear demarcations in stylistic changes, but even here there is often overlap, with some coins showing some design features of the previous group, creating grey areas which can be problematic for attribution.

 

[Brennos]

The Dekadrachm of The Numismatic Museum in Athens 

 

 

 

 

[robinjojo]

1 hour ago, Brennos said:

The Dekadrachm of The Numismatic Museum in Athens 

 

 

 

 

Thank you for the video.  If I ever visit Athens, that museum will be a definite stop!

Here are the decadrachms from Starr's book:

[Deinomenid]

On 11/10/2023 at 6:21 PM, robinjojo said:

Here's a very general outline of the evolution of the style that evolved from Starr Group II.

Is the claim in the new Harlan  Berk book that Starr Group II to V is a much more compressed one contentious please?

He says that there are Group V and Group II hybrids and there is therefore general redating or compression of date range. I didn't  know  he was particularly expert on those coins, other than  through a very long ancients career. It's presented rather as a fait accompli, presumably with no chance of a fake coin (?). 

 

Screen shot below - especially coin 11 -  and discussion at ~38.00 here - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6f-tpeW3d0

[robinjojo]

I watched that podcast with great interest, especially the section on Athenian owls.  The dating put forth by Harlan Berk basically is in line with the current consensus. The main issue in the past has been when to start the date of the first owl.  Berk's year of 520 BC is a bit earlier than  510 BC.  For the archaic owls, other scholars such as Seltman based dating on historical and artistic style factors, but I am not sure what approach Berk used, at least based on the podcast.

Coin #11 is a very odd one, the "discovery coin".   The pairing of an apparent Starr group II reverse die with a later obverse die, possibly a group IV is very unusual.  Could this be a case where an old reverse die was reused by the mint for some reason, but on a very limited basis, perhaps even as a one-off?  

For another perspective on the dating of the archaic owls, here's a link to Roberto Delzanno's YouTube video, part two of his series:

 

Edited February 26 by robinjojo