friedberg Posted July 22, 2023 · Member Share Posted July 22, 2023 Hello El Cazador, 11 minutes ago, El Cazador said: The one you provided a link for at $750 maybe you ask David Atherton about this piece. He is also a member in this forum. If you think it's overpriced just show me a second piece ... . With friendly greetings from Germany 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Cazador Posted July 22, 2023 · Member Share Posted July 22, 2023 1 minute ago, friedberg said: Hello El Cazador, maybe you ask David Atherton about this piece. He is also a member in this forum. If you think it's overpriced just show me a second piece ... . With friendly greetings from Germany I personally wouldn’t pay $750 for that coin, the cos XIIII coin at the same sale was great, but at $500 it was still expensive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deinomenid Posted July 22, 2023 · Supporter Share Posted July 22, 2023 This may be obvious but re all the comments on prices being high, they do drop quite a lot in the next 2(?) rounds of bidding with HJB. The complaint is often that they are often sold by then, but that’s just the market. (And the beauty of a Dutch auction?) 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benefactor DonnaML Posted July 22, 2023 · Benefactor Author Benefactor Share Posted July 22, 2023 1 hour ago, Ocatarinetabellatchitchix said: What’s weird is that some coins offered in this Buy or Bid sale (not from CC collection) are also for sale on the MA-Shops platform… They always do that, I believe. I don't recall whether they also offer the "bid" option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
friedberg Posted July 22, 2023 · Member Share Posted July 22, 2023 15 minutes ago, El Cazador said: I personally wouldn’t pay $750 for that coin, the cos XIIII coin at the same sale was great, but at $500 it was still expensive O.K. Two collectors, two opinions, why not. The entire sale contains high-grade rarities for witch special collectors are happy to pay the asking prices. With the vast majority of pieces, it is not about condition but about rarity. With friendly greetings from Germany 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Limes Posted July 22, 2023 · Supporter Share Posted July 22, 2023 3 hours ago, friedberg said: Hello, defenitely the last one, when I collect the coins of "Otho" ! The first one is common but the last one is very rare. I myself immediately bought 12 pieces from the Flavians on Thursday. I can't speak for the other types but the Flavier on offer were almost cheap. Example: https://www.hjbltd.com/#!/inventory/item-detail/ancient-coins/102800?fromBbs=224th Buy Or Bid Sale RIC II 1² Domitian 324 (R2 / very few examples known). And this piece is the RIC plate-coin. 750$ ... I bought it immediately. With friendly greetings from Germany That's a great coin for sure, congratulations! Despite my earlier comment on the prices (again, just my personal opinion!) I can imagine a Flavian plate coin for $ 750 is a good deal. Interesting, or good quality Flavians fetch high prices. Must be many Flavian fanatics out there! 🙂 2 hours ago, Ocatarinetabellatchitchix said: What’s weird is that some coins offered in this Buy or Bid sale (not from CC collection) are also for sale on the MA-Shops platform… I think they do that often. Not sure if they do it with all the coins though. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Conduitt Posted July 22, 2023 · Supporter Share Posted July 22, 2023 (edited) Ffs. R for rare? 😂https://www.hjbltd.com/#!/inventory/item-detail/ancient-coins/102485?fromBbs=224th Buy Or Bid Sale Edited July 22, 2023 by John Conduitt 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ominus1 Posted July 22, 2023 · Supporter Share Posted July 22, 2023 2 hours ago, Deinomenid said: , they do drop quite a lot in the next 2(?) rounds of bidding ...i never knew that..9_9...:D...thanks for the education...^^ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Atherton Posted July 22, 2023 · Member Share Posted July 22, 2023 3 hours ago, friedberg said: Hello El Cazador, maybe you ask David Atherton about this piece. He is also a member in this forum. If you think it's overpriced just show me a second piece ... . With friendly greetings from Germany The coins from the Curtis Clay collection will only appeal to specialists and those who love rare varieties. All others will probably think they are overpriced and look elsewhere. IMHO, you obtained a prized rarity. Congrats! 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benefactor robinjojo Posted July 22, 2023 · Benefactor Benefactor Share Posted July 22, 2023 What about lot 426, described as an AE 11 "antoninianus" when in fact it is an 80 drachmae of Cleopatra VII, apparently repatinated, which was purchased for $14,000? Now that's a pretty penny! Nice obverse and reverse, though. https://www.hjbltd.com/#!/inventory/item-detail/ancient-coins/102491?fromBbs=224th Buy Or Bid Sale 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPK Posted July 22, 2023 · Supporter Share Posted July 22, 2023 2 minutes ago, robinjojo said: What about lot 426, described as an AE 11 "antoninianus" when in fact it is an 80 drachmae of Cleopatra VII, apparently repatinated, which was purchased for $14,000? Now that's a pretty penny! Nice obverse and reverse, though. https://www.hjbltd.com/#!/inventory/item-detail/ancient-coins/102491?fromBbs=224th Buy Or Bid Sale Wow. I am certainly not one to pit my feeble knowledge against HJB but all I can say is, I don't blame CNG for thinking it was tooled - it kind of has that look to it. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benefactor robinjojo Posted July 22, 2023 · Benefactor Benefactor Share Posted July 22, 2023 (edited) 10 minutes ago, CPK said: Wow. I am certainly not one to pit my feeble knowledge against HJB but all I can say is, I don't blame CNG for thinking it was tooled - it kind of has that look to it. I think this coin has been smoothed on both sides at a minimum. It just has that homogenous appearance, surface-wise. As for tooling, that would require close inspection, at least for me, who is probably legally blind and preparing to renew my driver's license. Lots of luck! At $14K I feel better owning a far humbler example. Cleopatra VII, AE 80 drachmae. Sear 1871 17.4 grams Edited July 22, 2023 by robinjojo 7 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benefactor Phil Davis Posted July 22, 2023 · Benefactor Benefactor Share Posted July 22, 2023 13 minutes ago, robinjojo said: What about lot 426, described as an AE 11 "antoninianus" when in fact it is an 80 drachmae of Cleopatra VII, apparently repatinated, which was purchased for $14,000? Now that's a pretty penny! Nice obverse and reverse, though. https://www.hjbltd.com/#!/inventory/item-detail/ancient-coins/102491?fromBbs=224th Buy Or Bid Sale That's a digital glitch, one of several that pop up from time to time. The actual description is correct. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benefactor robinjojo Posted July 22, 2023 · Benefactor Benefactor Share Posted July 22, 2023 Yes, ,that's what I figured. The lot's description cleared up that error. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nerosmyfavorite68 Posted July 22, 2023 · Member Share Posted July 22, 2023 I'm still not entirely sure how the auction works, other than the buy part. So it's a Dutch auction? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deinomenid Posted July 23, 2023 · Supporter Share Posted July 23, 2023 Effectively yes. As in prices start high then fall a certain percent and then fall some more at the end of the auction. I suppose a pure Dutch auction would start at x and tick down by clear and numerous frequent increments but it’s the same sort of thing. I’ve bought coins from them at substantial discounts to the initial buy now price but I ran the real risk of them being taken by someone else in the quite lengthy period from initial listing to final sale. (I am though confused how the prices are reported to the auction information sites like coin archive.) 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salomons Cat Posted July 23, 2023 · Member Share Posted July 23, 2023 (edited) I must admit that I don't understand what rarity is. At this point, I believe that it's a matter of perspective 😂 As an example: I have bought an Elagabalus denarius from Ken Dorney for 125$ on vcoins. Most people would say that this is a very, very common coin. But for me, it's the most beautiful Elagabalus denarius that I have ever seen and therefore an incredible rarity. One of my favorite coins. I would have paid a lot more for it if necessary. Elagabalus denarius, RIC 107, Ex Ken Dorney, vcoins On the other hand: I own 2 Domitian denarii. I don't even know how many types of Domitian denarii are out there that I don't own. Not owning a certain variant of a Domitian denarius is a very common phenomenon to me... For other collectors, it is not. So, that's why I believe that rarity is in the eye of the beholder. This is probably quite ignorant and a bit philistine of me... And sorry for this off topic post. But I'm happy that we're not all after the same coins, otherwise many of us could not afford any of the coins that we want 😊 Edited July 23, 2023 by Salomons Cat 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Conduitt Posted July 23, 2023 · Supporter Share Posted July 23, 2023 28 minutes ago, Salomons Cat said: I must admit that I don't understand what rarity is. At this point, I believe that it's a matter of perspective 😂 As an example: I have bought an Elagabalus denarius from Ken Dorney for 125$ on vcoins. Most people would say that this is a very, very common coin. But for me, it's the most beautiful Elagabalus denarius that I have ever seen and therefore an incredible rarity. One of my favorite coins. I would have paid a lot more for it if necessary. Elagabalus denarius, RIC 107, Ex Ken Dorney, vcoins On the other hand: I own 2 Domitian denarii. I don't even know how many types of Domitian denarii are out there that I don't own. Not owning a certain variant of a Domitian denarius is a very common phenomenon to me... For other collectors, it is not. So, that's why I believe that rarity is in the eye of the beholder. This is probably quite ignorant and a bit philistine of me... And sorry for this off topic post. But I'm happy that we're not all after the same coins, otherwise many of us could not afford any of the coins that we want 😊 Rarity is very much in the eye of the beholder. Even the different authors of RIC can't agree. Whether a difference in the legend or the positioning of a star is just a different die or an entirely different coin is down to the cataloguer. They create rarity that way. As you say, there's also conditional rarity, where some coins just don't come in anything but worn. There's relative rarity too - collectors of US coins go on about rare coins of which hundreds or thousands exist, while in ancients even 10 is simply 'scarce'. 5 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qcumbor Posted July 23, 2023 · Supporter Share Posted July 23, 2023 (edited) On 7/22/2023 at 4:11 PM, Al Kowsky said: The short answer is NO, but we all know Curtis Clay has been an important part of of Harlan J. Berk, LTD from it's inception, & their organization is recognizing his loyalty. One clip from the recent harlan j berk podcast 32 that I found rather amusing was Aaron's comment on CNG 542, lot 401, a denarius of Otho, pictured below. This denarius just sold for $1,920.00 including the buyers premium, with an estimate of $750.00. Aaron commented that he would never buy a coin like this because the name OTHO isn't completely visible. The current HJB Bid-Buy Sale 224 has an Otho denarius for sale, lot 73, from the Curtis Clay collection with a buy price of $2,000.00, see photo below. Now which of these two denarii would you consider a better coin for the money 🤔? I understand not being able to read the whole Emperor's name is an issue,, anyway I'm glad I could afford the the following despite (or because) the lack of some letters 🙂 Q Edited July 23, 2023 by Qcumbor 5 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roman Collector Posted July 23, 2023 · Patron Share Posted July 23, 2023 On 7/21/2023 at 5:15 PM, DonnaML said: Is Curtis sufficiently well-known to apply a premium to any coin from his collection? I would say yes. He has published numerous articles in the academic numismatic journals, has been a longtime contributor to FORVM, CoinTalk and here at NVMIS FORVMS. His association with HJB for decades has made him well-known. I have acquired coins from @curtislclay and I'm proud of that provenance. 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benefactor DonnaML Posted July 23, 2023 · Benefactor Author Benefactor Share Posted July 23, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, Qcumbor said: I understand not being able to read the whole Emperor's name is an issue,, anyway I'm glad I could afford the the following despite (or because) the lack of some letters 🙂 Q It's not as if there's any ambiguity -- it couldn't be anyone else! So I don't see having the name there as essential, at least for Otho's Imperial coins. Any more than I do for emperors like Trajan or Hadrian. Edited July 23, 2023 by DonnaML 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Conduitt Posted July 23, 2023 · Supporter Share Posted July 23, 2023 6 minutes ago, DonnaML said: It's not as if there's any ambiguity -- it couldn't be anyone else! So I don't see having the name there as essential, at least for Otho's Imperial coins. Any more than I do for emperors like Trajan or Hadrian. Yes I've heard it a few times about Otho. Why Otho? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Atherton Posted July 23, 2023 · Member Share Posted July 23, 2023 2 hours ago, Roman Collector said: I would say yes. He has published numerous articles in the academic numismatic journals, has been a longtime contributor to FORVM, CoinTalk and here at NVMIS FORVMS. His association with HJB for decades has made him well-known. I have acquired coins from @curtislclay and I'm proud of that provenance. This. Anyone who doesn't recognize the importance of his collection isn't being serious. 6 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay GT4 Posted July 23, 2023 · Member Share Posted July 23, 2023 14 minutes ago, David Atherton said: This. Anyone who doesn't recognize the importance of his collection isn't being serious. +1 I'm glad if nobody sees the importance of the Clay collection, more for us that do! 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orfew Posted July 23, 2023 · Member Share Posted July 23, 2023 On 7/22/2023 at 1:32 PM, El Cazador said: I personally wouldn’t pay $750 for that coin, the cos XIIII coin at the same sale was great, but at $500 it was still expensive I don’t remember anyone asking you to do so. Personally, I think he got that coin cheap. It is the only one I have seen appear at auction in 10 years. Why don’t you find a cheaper one and post it here? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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