Mucius Scaevola Posted October 19, 2022 · Member Share Posted October 19, 2022 (edited) Did anyone win sth at the Kuenker auctions? I won a lot (Lot 4906) that I didn't actually wanted but yeah, the description said extremely fine/mint state and it went for less than the estimate, so my finger just touched the display. But their pictures are always pretty bad, so I'll just wait until it arrives. Share your wins here, please 😉 Edited October 19, 2022 by Mucius Scaevola 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prieure de Sion Posted October 19, 2022 · Member Share Posted October 19, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, Mucius Scaevola said: Did anyone win sth at the Kuenker auctions? I won a lot (Lot 4906) that I didn't actually wanted but yeah, the description said extremely fine/mint state and it went for less than the estimate, so my finger just touched the display. But their pictures are always pretty bad, so I'll just wait until it arrives. Share your wins here, please 😉 If it makes you feel any better - I made a bulk purchase for the shop at Künker just under a fortnight ago - with the same "great" photos. About 90% of the coins were much better than the pictures - only for two coins did I get what the pictures said. So you have a good chance. By the way, I still don't understand why the auction houses (also because of the Corona crisis) didn't take the chance to digitise their auctions. If I had such a big auction house - I would simply digitise my pictures and offer a short video for every (!) coin. That is technically no problem at all. While you are making the video - a picture is also taken of the obverse and reverse. In one step you have the video and the pictures - and that's how I would set up my auction. PS: I didn't buy anything at Künker yesterday or today. When even for "ss / vf" coins the prices suddenly went from the real 100-200 euros to 300, 400, 500 euros and more, I was out. I am now hoping for 20.10 and 21.10 - let's see. There are some interesting pieces. But the market prices are high anyway - but I don't pay a 50-100% premium to the (high) market price. Edited October 19, 2022 by Prieure de Sion 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Limes Posted October 19, 2022 · Supporter Share Posted October 19, 2022 (edited) Congratulations on the win! I have one low pre bid in for tomorrow, but hey, you never know right? The 25% fee annoys me a bite though.... Edited October 19, 2022 by Limes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benefactor DonnaML Posted October 19, 2022 · Benefactor Benefactor Share Posted October 19, 2022 1 hour ago, Limes said: Congratulations on the win! I have one low pre bid in for tomorrow, but hey, you never know right? The 25% fee annoys me a bite though.... I have two pre-bids in for tomorrow, one Roman Republican and one Imperial. Are their "estimates" always so low? I can't imagine that the actual hammer prices will be anything close to them. The Künker auction and tomorrow's CNG session are pretty much at the same time (although of course the Künker auction starts a number of hours before CNG because of the time difference), so I may end up monitoring the two simultaneously for some lots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mucius Scaevola Posted October 19, 2022 · Member Author Share Posted October 19, 2022 Good to know Prieure! They seem to be quite honest about their coins, so I hope for a quality Augustus. It was kind of a bet against the picture. Could be a big mistake or a fair price, will tell you when it arrived. Yes, their fee sucks a bit. Especially at their big auctions where the room is full of rich people. You pay the Kuenkerprice and get the Kuenkerfee. But their coins are really nice and I just like to watch them. I have one more for tomorrow, but the price needs to be reasonable. @DonnaML Yes their estimates are pretty low for most of them, because the starting price shouldn't be too high. High estimate - high starting price. Never good for some bidding wars 😉 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mucius Scaevola Posted October 19, 2022 · Member Author Share Posted October 19, 2022 But they should think about paying for good pictures. These look like scans or one of those photoboxes. I agree, Prieure, a video would solve these issues. My Augustus had an estimate of 1250€. Without knowing Kuenker a bit, I wouldn't even bid 500 for it. But it's a bet now. Sometimes you win, sometimes you don't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
velarfricative Posted October 19, 2022 · Member Share Posted October 19, 2022 Kunker went just fine for me, the Kushan section was absurdly cheap, around the level of early 2000s prices. I picked up a Vasishka myself. Though, with this photo, I have no idea what it'll look like in hand! 6 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akeady Posted October 19, 2022 · Supporter Share Posted October 19, 2022 I won a RR cast as in Kuenker today. I threw in a lot of fairly low bids ages ago and was pleasantly surprised to win this. I have several more bids in tomorrow, so maybe my luck will hold 😄 I also got something in CNG's auction today. ATB, Aidan. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Severus Alexander Posted October 19, 2022 · Supporter Share Posted October 19, 2022 2 hours ago, Mucius Scaevola said: You pay the Kuenkerprice and get the Kuenkerfee. 😆 Yep, that's about the size of it. But every once in a while you get lucky. As @Prieure de Sion notes, their photos usually make the coin look bad so that helps a bit too. I was smoked on most of my bids but did pick up a Tarsos tetradrachm of Alex the Great, as discussed in the recent thread on this topic: I lost my first example of this coin in the famous Leu Christmas Heist of 2018, so was glad to pick up a replacement. Hammer 220 euros, very reasonable given what these are going for lately: Those bright shiny photos though... yeuch. 🤢 And mostly their coins go for crazy money IMO. 8 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prieure de Sion Posted October 20, 2022 · Member Share Posted October 20, 2022 Today no better - unfortunately - "cheap" is everything that is vf - but as soon as near extremely fine or even extremely fine - the prices go through the roof. An example from just now. Surcharge just now 1.400 Euro + 25% = 1.750 Euro! The type goes out in VF or good VF around 150-250 euros.... let it be double or triple that for EF. But almost 2000 euros? I'm happy to pay good money for good quality. But I don't pay five times or more the market price. I don't think the prices are in line with the market today either. 4 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mucius Scaevola Posted October 20, 2022 · Member Author Share Posted October 20, 2022 I got destroyed while bidding on a RR Semis. Was bidding against a Prebid for sure and just quit the game. Now I'll wait for the Neros, but I guess that I already know the results. Insane auctions they host.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaleun96 Posted October 20, 2022 · Member Share Posted October 20, 2022 9 hours ago, Severus Alexander said: 😆 Yep, that's about the size of it. But every once in a while you get lucky. As @Prieure de Sion notes, their photos usually make the coin look bad so that helps a bit too. I was smoked on most of my bids but did pick up a Tarsos tetradrachm of Alex the Great, as discussed in the recent thread on this topic: I lost my first example of this coin in the famous Leu Christmas Heist of 2018, so was glad to pick up a replacement. Hammer 220 euros, very reasonable given what these are going for lately: Those bright shiny photos though... yeuch. 🤢 And mostly their coins go for crazy money IMO. Nice one! I saw that went for a reasonable price, I may have gone for it myself but recently added to my collection the slightly earlier type (Price 2990 / Newell "Tarsos" 1) with the single globule above the throne strut. It's funny that this one comes before the type with no mint marks of any kind in both Price's and Newell's chronology. I believe it's due to the die-linkage pattern where Newell 1 (one globule) and Newell 2 (no mint marks) share some dies with each other, and thus are suspected to be contemporaries, but then separately share different dies with the "A" and "B" marked types respectively. Either way, all of these types are likely to have been produced fairly early in Tarsos' Alexandrine history. If you subscribe to the Tarsos "origin" hypothesis of Alexander's tetradrachms, then these would indeed be some of the very first Alexander tetradrachms ever produced, with 2990 being the first if the Price/Newell chronology is correct. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prieure de Sion Posted October 20, 2022 · Member Share Posted October 20, 2022 This type for 2.600 Euro (+25% = 3.125 Euro) ... ??? 😬😱 Ok... 2 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romancollector Posted October 20, 2022 · Member Share Posted October 20, 2022 So far I lost my first target and won my primary target…from what I can tell, close to my max bid. Once I have confirmed with my auction rep, I will post the coin! I will say that having an auction rep is helpful considering Kunker’s odd photos. She sent me her photos from the lot viewing, which was very helpful as they were similar to how I take my own photos and therefore accurate representations of the coins. Since I won my primary target I cannot pursue my equally pricey (if not pricier) backup…. However there is still one more (hopefully cheaper) coin that I’m still targeting so we’ll see how that goes! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mucius Scaevola Posted October 20, 2022 · Member Author Share Posted October 20, 2022 (edited) What is an auction rep? 😛 I got an Augustus, but lost every single Nero I was bidding on, so it was a bad day. I ended up buying a Galba sestertius I never wanted because I was so frustrated. Immediately closed the website to prevent myself from further damage 🥲 Edited October 20, 2022 by Mucius Scaevola Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Restitutor Posted October 20, 2022 · Administrator Share Posted October 20, 2022 Just got registered in the nick of time! Didn't realize you had to create two separate accounts, one for pre-bidding and one for live auction. The very nice lady I was on the phone with informed me that I could run the risk of live auction bidding against my pre-bids if I wasn't careful 😂 Very glad I called in when my (unbeknownst to me) pre-bid-only account kept erroring out when I tried logging in to the live bid 😅 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romancollector Posted October 20, 2022 · Member Share Posted October 20, 2022 (edited) 16 minutes ago, Mucius Scaevola said: What is an auction rep? 😛 I got an Augustus, but lost every single Nero I was bidding on, so it was a bad day. I ended up buying a Galba sestertius I never wanted because I was so frustrated. Immediately closed the website to prevent myself from further damage 🥲 An auction rep is someone who goes and inspects coins you are interested in and bids on your behalf. The idea is that a rep will tell you if there are any issues with a coin not disclosed by the auction house (i.e. tooling). So I tend to use my rep for higher ticket items and sestertii. My auction rep is Shanna Schmidt who represents multiple members on this forum. If you are interested, I'm happy to pass along her contact info or discuss how representation works. The coin I won was a Nero (hopefully not one you were bidding on).....the coin I lost (so far) was an Augustus. I wouldn't feel too bad...you one two coins in a Kunker sale....the most I've ever won is one Edited October 20, 2022 by Romancollector 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mucius Scaevola Posted October 20, 2022 · Member Author Share Posted October 20, 2022 Sounds like something that costs a lot of money and for coins that are out of my reach 😛 Yeah sounds fine by now, but.. the Augustus was a bet against the picture, so I could still lose if their description wasn't accurate. And the Galba is in a shape that I normally do not collect. But the price was fair and I'm hoping for some unknown provenances. That's were I use ex-numis, they are searching for them. So overall, it was okay but I did not get my targets, which hurt.. What Nero were you bidding on, if I may ask? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Restitutor Posted October 20, 2022 · Administrator Share Posted October 20, 2022 Reading articles about impending recession, and then seeing these prices.... I am floored. If I ever sell my collection, Künker will be my consignor of choice 🤑 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tejas Posted October 20, 2022 · Member Share Posted October 20, 2022 (edited) Yes, 10 minutes ago, Restitutor said: Reading articles about impending recession, and then seeing these prices.... I am floored. Well, we have impending recession PLUS very high inflation. The governments massively overstimulated their economies (especially in the US), causing a world wide surge in inflation. If inflation were to reach a point where people lose trust in money a surge in asset prices (including things like coins) would be expected. I'm not saying that we are at such a point though. I guess the price explosion at the Künker Auction is driven by the massive excess savings that governments in the US and Europe created and which is now driving up prices everywhere. Edited October 20, 2022 by Tejas 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Limes Posted October 20, 2022 · Supporter Share Posted October 20, 2022 Oh well, my pre bid was outbid easily. Too bad, but I took a gamble. @DonnaML, the estimates are, just as the photo's, rubbish. I think Kuenker live auctions is a venue where a representative really pays off. 3 hours ago, Prieure de Sion said: This type for 2.600 Euro (+25% = 3.125 Euro) ... ??? 😬😱 Ok... I'm looking forward to the next doofus (?) coins on the Berk podcast. There were some eligable candidates today... 13 minutes ago, Restitutor said: Reading articles about impending recession, and then seeing these prices.... I am floored. If I ever sell my collection, Künker will be my consignor of choice 🤑 Well, a bit of a guess here, but I think Kuenker generally attracts a crowd on which inflation will have little effect. The coins are amazing and attract high end bidders. (And folks like me that will enter a low pre bid and hope for the best.) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romancollector Posted October 20, 2022 · Member Share Posted October 20, 2022 @Mucius Scaevola It was the Nero/Agrippina Jr. denarius I also believe I won my third target but will have to confirm with my rep! So two Kunker wins beat my personal record of one! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mucius Scaevola Posted October 20, 2022 · Member Author Share Posted October 20, 2022 That was a nice one and on my list. But I did not bid, because I knew I wouldn't stand a chance. Glad you got it! No need for later upgrade imho. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prieure de Sion Posted October 20, 2022 · Member Share Posted October 20, 2022 Hmmm frustration today. On CNG a bidder kill my bid 1s before ending at the Godianus Aureus. And at Künker I get only the Balbinus and one Gordianus - but booth for the Shop - nothing for me. Bad day - but hey - some interesting auctions coming up the next weeks. No matter real really bad for a long time. Tomorrow is a new auction day... and tomorrow and tomorrow... 🙂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benefactor DonnaML Posted October 20, 2022 · Benefactor Benefactor Share Posted October 20, 2022 (edited) I bid (not terribly much) on three coins, one Roman Republican and two Imperials. I seriously underestimated how much the Imperials would sell for. I would have had to bid about 5 times what I did to win this denarius, given that my bid was only 400 Euros: I probably shouldn't be surprised that I didn't come close to the early Augustus, but I didn't expect this Hadrian (with Oceanus on the reverse) to go for almost 10 times the 200 Euros I bid! Perhaps it's an uncommon type, but if that's the case I had no idea. On the other hand, I did win this Roman Republican denarius for less than my bid. I guess it just didn't attract much interest, even though it's a type I haven't seen that often and appears to me to be in decent condition: Edited October 21, 2022 by DonnaML 7 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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