Marsyas Mike

Yeah, I'm not entirely convinced either...though the portrait is not is much of a concern as other aspects of it. As noted above, some more extensive doubts about it soon to come - including legends and portrait. Thank you for your insights!

Soon to follow, a post from a fellow NF member who is also thinking this is not genuine - he's been PM'ing me, but I asked him to "go public" with his doubts. I'd like it to be the real deal, for sure, but I'd like to know as much as possible, even if the news is not good. Thank you for sharing your doubts. I have some doubts about it too!

Check out the @Ocatarinetabellatchitchix article on Coin Talk here: https://www.cointalk.com/threads/pacatianvs-chronicles.363222/ It seems Zosimus is the main source for anything other than coins about this guy.

Thank you all for your helpful, and kind, comments: @Xeno @Ancient Coin Hunter @ominus1 @Harry G @Greekcoin21 @panzerman @CPK @Tejas @Ryro @JayAg47 Special shout-out to @Dwarf for providing that auction sale price info. For what it's worth, I agree that the price on something like this would be lower now - I suspect that there are a lot more of Pacatianus coins on the market nowadays than 2014. Thank you, metal detectors. And thank you @Ocatarinetabellatchitchix - your article on CT (linked in the OP) was the most overall informative piece I found. Best of luck with your latest project with these. More information is certainly needed in this area. My French, unfortunately, consists of oui and merci. One of the best things about this hobby is the sharing these finds with such a great group of fellow collectors.

A fool and his money, as they say, which is to say a Pacatian antoninianus came my way via eBay. Any coin of this guy is scarce or rare; Pacatianus was a Roman general(?) who rebelled somewhere in Moesia c. 248-249, scaring Philip the Arab so badly he told the Senate he was willing to resign. Very little is known about the man, his coins being one of the main proofs of his existence. I won't go into the background here, since @Ocatarinetabellatchitchix posted an excellent article on this usurper and his coins on Coin Talk here: https://www.cointalk.com/threads/pacatianvs-chronicles.363222/ As for my new purchase, RIC/OCRE has seven types total (numismatics.org/ocre/results?q=portrait_facet%3A"Pacatianus") but mine is not one of these. Which is worrisome, to say the least. But I did find another one, on Wildwinds, which came from a Gerhard Hirsch Nachfolger auction in 2014. Here is the Wildwinds photo (note the double-struck obverse; mine isn't like that): Gerhard Hirsch Nachfolger Auction 298; Lot 761; 07.05.2014 Description RÖMISCHE MÜNZEN, RÖMISCHES KAISERREICH PACATIANUS. 248-, Viminacium.Antoninian. IMP TI CL MAR PACATIANVS [..A]VG Drapierte Büste mit Strahlenkrone r. Rs: FIDES EXERC Concordia-Fides thront l. mit Patera und Zepter. Im Abschnitt P. C. -. R.I.C. -. HCC -. 3.34g, Schöne Tönung. Randlich gelocht, Uned.? ss-vz https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=1947765 Wildwinds Pacatian. ca AD 248-249. AR Antoninianus 3.34 g. Viminacium mint. IMP TI CL MAR PACATIANVS ..AVG, radiate, draped and cuirassed bust right / FIDES EXERC, Fides seated left, holding patera and sceptre. P in exergue. Not in RIC; RSC; Cohen; ERIC -. Apparently unpublished. Hirsch auction 298, lot 761. It was great to find another example and die-match, but there are a couple of things about mine I don't like, mostly the low weight and the fact it "feels" more like a thin, silver-wash type issued a bit later by Gallienus and not something issued by Philip I or Gordian III. The other Pacatians I see weigh 3 grams or more, mine is only 2.3 grams. Coinage of this era was erratic in fabric and fineness, of course, but mine seems especially crappy. These have been faked, of course, starting with Becker, but I couldn't find this one in particular as a fake. The Wildwinds/Gerhard Hirsch Nachfolger coin has a very wildly double-struck obverse; the reverse matches mine quite well, which is why I decided to take the plunge. So what would you do? It was listed on eBay, as a Gordian III (specifically, RIC 70, Roma seated). Seller's photo: It was listed as an auction, not a buy-it-now, with a starting bid of $70.00 way too much for a low-grade Gordian III; but I'll look at anything on eBay. There was not much by way of description - no weight, size, etc. The portrait immediately looked off for Gordian - too old - Philip I, Trebonianus Gallus or Trajan Decius, I thought, until I looked at the legend: IMP TI CL MAR PACATIA[NVS AV]G. I immediately went to OCRE, acsearch, etc. and started looking. $70 for a Pacatian is quite a bargain. But as noted above, I did find one on Wildwinds/Gerhard Hirsch Nachfolger auction, which is why I figured it was worth a gamble. I mulled it over for a few days and shot the seller an offer (his auction had the "Make an Offer" option) of $50. It was the day after my birthday, and I thought starting a new decade off buying fakes off eBay is the way to start things right! The seller took my offer, shipped right away. And so that's its "provenance" if you can call it that. Here is mine, with somewhat improved photos, and attribution (though the seller's photos give a better idea of its silver-wash Gallienus-esque appearance): Pacatianus Antoninianus (c. 248-249 A.D.) Viminacium Mint? See notes IMP TI CL MAR PACATIA[NVS AV]G, radiate, draped and cuirassed bust right / FIDES E[XER]C, Fides seated left, holding patera and sceptre, P in exergue. Not in RIC IV (see notes) (2.32 grams / 22 x 20 mm) eBay Nov. 2023 Note: Not in RIC; one other specimen that is a die-match: Die-Match Obverse? & Reverse: Gerhard Hirsch Nachfolger Auct. 298; Lot 761; 07.05.2014 P. C. -. R.I.C. -. HCC -. 3.34g, Uned.? Wildwinds (same coin) This specimen is double-struck obverse, thus unsure of obverse die-match. Issue Notes: British Museum Curator's comments: "The coinage of Pacatian is usually attributed to a mint at Viminacium in the province of Moesia Superior, but it should be noted that this mint did not produce its usual provincial bronze coinage for the usurper." https://www.britishmuseum.org/collection/object/C_1988-1201-19 Here is mine compared to the Wildwinds/Gerhard Hirsch Nachfolger (double-struck obverse) specimen - I rather like the slight smile he's wearing - kind of like Postumus - although I wouldn't thing being a Roman usurper would give you much to smile about: A final observation; coins of Pacatian are not as scarce as they used to be, I think. While researching this one, I came across references to there being only about 100 coins known in collections and museums total. However, acsearch pulls up over 700 of them (some duplicate auctions for the same coin, but still way more than 100). My guess is the huge numbers of coins coming out of the Balkans in recent years (not counting Bulgarian fakes!) include Pacatians from time to time. I welcome any and all comments, if any, on this coin. I'd especially love to have the selling price on the original Gerhard Hirsch Nachfolger auction referenced above (I don't have an acsearch account). You won't hurt my feelings if you think it's a fake. And for sure, share those Pacatians if you have 'em.

This one just came in the mail - an ADVENTVS type for Maximianus from Carthage - lion gnawing on a bull, elephant tusk - a lot going on here, but no horse: Maximianus Follis (Æ 27) (297-298 A.D.) Carthage Mint IMP MAXIMIANVS P F AVG, laureate head right / FELIX AD-V-ENT AVGG NN, Africa standing facing, holding standard and elephant's tusk, lion with captured bull at feet, B in left field | PKS in exergue. RIC VI Carthage 21b. (11.36 grams / 27 x 26 mm) eBay Nov. 2023 Augustus Coins Carthage, Type 5. FELIX ADVENT AVGG NN, Carthage standing, with elephant-skin headdress, holding standard and elephant tusk. The Carthage mint was not open when the coinage was reformed. It was opened by Maximian in 296 when he crossed into Africa to campaign against tribes that had broken through the frontier. Each of its three follis types was issued for all four rulers, but the type really belongs to Maximian. augustuscoins.com/ed/tetrarchy/follistypes.html#T5 Constantinethegreatcoins.com: "The coinage from Carthage struck during this period references the campaign against the Quinquegentiani as the mint was only opened because of the war. When Maximianus arrived in Carthage sometime in 296- 297, he needed to open a mint to have funds to pay for the war. The types struck in Carthage were also specific to the city and not struck anywhere else in the Empire." www.constantinethegreatcoins.com

Informative and interesting write-up as always, @Sulla80. I don't have the Septimius Severus ADVENTVS type, but I have three Philip the Arab antoninianii - the top one is the very rare variant where Philip came riding in on a pony; the other two depict the more common horse:

Thanks, RC. Mine is XXIII (I found a die-match while looking into this). Updates/corrections have been made!

That's a lovely coin, @Julius Germanicus. Earlier this year I got one too, not a pretty as yours, but stripped - I do like them yellow like this: Septimius Severus Æ Sestertius (196 A.D.) Rome Mint L SEPT SEV PERT AV[G IMP VIII], laureate and cuirassed bust right / P M TR P IIII C]OS II P [P], S-C, Victory advancing left, holding wreath and palm. RIC IV 725; BMCRE 591-593; Cohen RSC 420. (19.24 grams / 28 x 26 mm) eBay May 2023 Lot @ $4.50 Die-Match Characteristics: Obv: PE-RT break, R touches hair; laurel ties shallow J-curve. Rev: Victory high-waisted with "hobble skirt" look at knees. Die-Match Obv. & Rev.: Classical Numismatic Group Electronic Auction 503; Lot 403; 03.11.2021 Heritage Auctions, Inc. Auction 3088; Lot 34149; 05.11.2020

Another great Faustina Friday, for sure. I'm using this opportunity to upgrade my attributions. On this Ant. Pius sestertius, I have notes from a Coin Talk post of yours that says TRP XXII does not exist? That it should be TRP XXIII? Here's my post off your OP with this type, your notes - I have not tracked down the Aug. 2020 post...mine with old XXII and new XXIII attributions: https://www.cointalk.com/threads/in-thursdays-mail-an-antoninus-pius-sestertius.369979/

Nice find, @ambr0zie. I do not have any silver of Augustus, but I did find this As recently. It is much better than most of my Julio-Claudian AEs: Augustus Æ As (11-12 A.D.) Rome Mint IMP • CAESAR • DIVI • F • AVGVSTVS • IMP • XX • bare head left / PONTIF • MAXIM • TRIBVN • POT • XXXIIII •, large S • C. RIC II Part 1 (2nd ed.) 471; BMCRE 275-276; Cohen 226. (11.09 grams / 28 x 27 mm) eBay July 2023 Note: British Museum Curator's comments: "The emperor's titles here replace those of the moneyer and set the pattern for the later Julio-Claudian aes coinage."

I for one really appreciate your "flyspecking" efforts, @Ocatarinetabellatchitchix. Your Victorinus observations helped me identify one of those "leaf" types recently - so keep up the good work, please! Here's mine: Gallic Empire Victorinus Billon / Æ Antoninianus (269-271 A.D.) Cologne (RIC) / Trier Mint IM[P C VICTORINVS P F [AVG}, radiate, draped, & cuir. bust right / INVICTVS, Sol advancing left, raising right hand, whip in left, star left, stylized tree leaf right. (2.22 grams / 21 x 17 mm) eBay Aug. 2023 Lot @ $5.22 Note: Mint location varies: OCRE: Cologne, 269-271 A.D. CNG: "Treveri (Trier) mint. 3rd emission, 3rd phase, mid AD 270-early AD 271" FORVM: "issue 3, phase 2, late 269 - mid 271 A.D., 1st officina, Treveri (Trier) RIC V-2 114; Mairat 582; Schulzki AGK 9b; Cohen VI 49; Elmer 683, Cunetio 2534; SRCV III 11170., Note: "The period of time when (Autun) was...finally taken corresponds with the 3rd issues (3rd phase) of minting of Victorinus coinage. Two reverses known earliest in his reign...celebrate and underline this victory : the PAX AVG had a palm...added in the r. field. Rare examples of the parallel type INVICTVS appeared at the same time with a small stylized tree leaf under the floating side of Sol's mantle going to the left...." Ocatarinetabellatchitchix, CT

My latest Vespasian is a rare Domitian-mule from Ephesus. The only reason I know this is because of the expertise of @David Atherton. I posted this recently on CT: https://www.cointalk.com/threads/two-rare-o-mint-mules.407517/ Marsyas Mike, Tuesday at 11:43 AMReport #3+ QuoteReply

Great FF as always, @Roman Collector I have but one to share from this selection - a Laetitia denarius:

Thanks for the informative write-up as always, @Valentinian Your website is very useful - I was just on it today digging up some stuff on Geta's portraits. As for the OP, I got a couple of these, similar types but with cornucopiae in front of Tyche, from an eBay lot. At under $2 each, they were indeed cheap - and I'd agree that a lot of low-price, low-grade but very interesting ancients are coming on to the market a lot lately (speaking from the eBay perspective). Here're mine (the attributions are kind of wishy-washy): Caracalla Æ 17 (198-217 A.D.) Carrhae, Mesopotamia (or Edessa? see E. Dandrow) [IMP CAES] ANTONIN[VS PF AVG] laureate head right / [COI MET ANT]ON[INIANA A], turreted & veiled head of Tyche right, cornucopia to right. SNG Cop. 177; BMC 38. (3.66 grams / 17 mm) eBay May 2019 Lot @ $1.83 Caracalla Æ 16 (198-217 A.D.) Carrhae, Mesopotamia (or Edessa? see E. Dandrow) [IMP CAES ANTONINVS PF] AVG laureate head right / [COI MET] ANTON[INIANA A], turreted & veiled head of Tyche right, cornucopia to right. SNG Cop. 177; BMC 38. (2.87 grams / 16 mm) eBay May 2019 Lot @ $1.83 Edward Dandrow in "The Latin Coins of Caracalla from Odessa in Osrhoene" makes a case for the Carrhae attribution to be incorrect, based on misreading the legends. (Numismatic Chronicle Offprint 176, 2016) In his work, this coin is Type 3 with cornucopia before Tyche.

That is a nutty price. I think these used to be available in bulk from dealers for $20 or so. Indian sellers on eBay seem to be getting about $6 on up for them, over and over and over: https://www.ebay.com/sch/11116/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=pondicherry&rt=nc&LH_Sold=1&LH_Complete=1

Nice coins in this post. I'm not sure if I'm imagining things, but a ton of Roman Egyptian stuff is showing up on eBay (where I hunt) and as far as I can tell, it mostly (mostly, not all) appears to be genuine. Here're a few recent highlights: This horrible thing is actually quite rare - a Year 1 tet of Elagabalus, Ares reverse. I could only find three, all on the RPC site, and all of these are heads - mine is draped (and cuirassed, per RPC). I wrote RPC to see what they thought and it is now official - part of the RPC system (RPC VI, 30698 (temporary))! I'm so proud. Too bad this is so ugly; but so far, it seems to be unique. I'm accepting offers starting in the low $$gazillions. See: https://rpc.ashmus.ox.ac.uk/coins/6/30698: Tetradrachms of Vespasian and Commodus - Vespasian has a double(d) chin: A big AE drachm of Antoninus Pius with a biga of winged ssssnakesssss. I took some pains looking for die-matches since I was a bit nervous about how cheap this interesting type went for. Antoninus Pius Æ Drachm Year ΙΔ = 14 (150-151 A.D.) Alexandria Mint Α[VΤ Κ Τ ΑΙΛ ΑΔΡ ΑΝΤƱΝΙΝΟϹ Ϲ]ƐΒ ƐVϹ, laureate, draped and cuirassed bust right / Triptolemos driving biga of winged serpents right, L ΙΔ above. RPC IV.4, 13708 (temporary) (20.08 grams / 31 x 30 mm) eBay August 2023 $38.00 Attribution (CNG, etc.): RPC IV.4, 13708 (temporary); Köln 1662; Dattari (Savio) 2908; K&G 35.517; Emmett 1683.14. Die-Match Characteristics: Obv: Big tie-loop; big drapery loop at front, "shelf" at hairline; rounded beard. Rev: Dot between wing and snake's neck; Triptolemus short arm; lopsided biga wheel. Die-Match Obv. & Rev.: Coin no. 8 of RPC IV.4, 13708 Hunterian Museum, Glasgow ID: SNGuk_1202_4219 Coin no. 22 of RPC IV.4, 13708 Aiello ("John Aiello, a prominent ancient coin wholesaler" FORVM). Die-Match Obverse: Coin no. 6 of RPC IV.4, 13708 Bibliothèque nationale de France Inventory no. 2268 Coin no. 7 of RPC IV.4, 13708 Bibliothèque nationale de France Inventory no. 2269 Coin no. 12 of RPC IV.4, 13708 Bibliothèque nationale de France Inv. no. 1967/1705 (Maspero)

I'm jealous - not only of your great cobs, but because you got to meet Hal Blackburn in person. Living in the Midwest, I only ever talked to him on the phone - back in those days you had to reserve coins over the phone to secure the sale (as you may remember). He was always very personable despite getting a gazillion phone calls when his lists came out. Furthermore, on every invoice, no matter for how small a purchase, he'd leave a small, handwritten personal note. All-round nice guy. And I miss his lists. And 1988 prices. On the subject of ugly cobs that saw the world, here's one I think has a "Madura Star" countermark. If not, it is a chopmark of some sort: This one has a tremendous amount of wear, a hole through the "Madura Star," but the Arabic inscription is clear: That's it for cobs in my collection - I used to collect world countermarks (now I mostly do ancients).

Lovely cob, @robinjojo. I too collect ancients, mainly, but one of the first coins I ever bought was a cob 8 reales. Thanks to your chart, I think my original attribution to Philip IV is correct. This came from Hal Blackburn of Blackburn & Blackburn, who issued numerous "popularly-priced" world coin lists back in the day (1980s-1990s) before the Internet. He had a batch of these and said they came from Hong Kong, but had been smuggled in from the mainland (back when China was considerably more closed off than nowadays). I bought it in 1988 - it has worn this powdery green look since then, with no change. Note the chopmarks and how bent it is:

Interesting post @Sulla80. A few years back I got an al marco'd denarius very cheap, I think because the seller thought it was outright damage: Roman Republic Denarius L. Aemilius Lepidus Paullus (62 B.C.) Rome Mint Concordia veiled & diademed r., PAVLLVS LEPIDVS CONCORDIA / TER PAVLVS above and under L Aemilius Paullus standing r., trophy, Perseus and two sons captive on the left. Aemilia 10; Crawford 415/1. (3.83 grams / 19 mm) eBay April 2020 Note: Al marco marks obverse: "...many Roman Republican denarii issues between 123 & 49/48 BC were adjusted al marco...adjust the flans before striking, by gouging slivers of metal...with a scorper. This produces characteristic undercut lunate ‘judder' marks, belly forward across the cut. The metal of the judders folds over, and the judder is usually visible..." Clive Stannard Another view of the mark - note the "judder":

Lovely coin, @lordmarcovan. Mine used to look like that at one time...note the NCAPR countermark, its only saving grace:

What a terrific, and well-organized account of all the various theories behind these eagle countermarks! Thank you so much for providing this @Kiaora - I learned a lot - especially that the latest theory (Woods) places this issue back to c. 610 A.D. Verrry interesting. It is also nice to see another eagle countermark example - it looks great to me. When it comes to countermarks on ancients, I don't worry too much about condition - these coins were typically worked very hard. Which makes them very interesting. Thanks again.

I wonder about the purchasing power too...the original coin was so old, that the purchasing power of a follis surely would've changed over the decades. The article by Schulze speculates: "What could happen in such a situation? For the authorities, an obvious possibility was to look for older coins that were out of circulation — some of them extremely worn — and revalue them by countermarking. Using the eagle symbol — either reminiscent of imperial power known to the people of Caesarea through their own Roman provincial coin issues or following the example set by contemporary lead seals — the old coins were carefully revalued by replacing the mintmark with the ‘eagle’ countermark as a sign of new authority. This brought them back into circulation or gave them a new value. All of this certainly did not happen immediately after the battle of Yarmukh, but probably in the years 637–640." But doesn't this mean that there was some kind of hoard of "coins that were out of circulation" in the imperial treasury? Why keep such coins around? As any collector of Byzantine AEs can tell you, the Byzantine authorities constantly overstruck older coins (and I'm guessing they melted down older ones for re-coinage as well). I suppose this could mean they stockpiled old coins for such overstriking. Another factor is shrinkage - the follis of the time of Heraclius was much smaller than those of the Justinian era. Maybe old, but big, folles with new, crisp eagles countermarked on them were an effort to bolster morale among the troops? Heck if I know! But it is fun to speculate.

Oooo, I love this coin @JayAg47. It has been a kind of bucket-list coin for me since the 1980s when I saw it on the cover of one of the Penguin Classics paperbacks: (photo from Goodreads) Same guy, but not nearly as pretty, here is one I recently got from an eBay undescribed lot. It isn't in horrible shape, but unfortunately it has one of those green-brown patinas that looks like duck hunter's camo, making it very hard to see. The reverse is a trophy arranged to look like Athena, which is kind of interesting: Kingdom of Thrace Æ 21 Lysimachos (c. 295/294 - 289/288 B.C.) Uncertain Western Asia Minor or Uncertain Macedonian Mint Young male head (or Athena) right, wearing Phrygian helmet / [B]AΣIΛ[EΩΣ] ΛYΣIMAXOY, trophy of arms resembling Athena standing left. (6.07 grams / 21 x 20 mm) eBay Oct. 2023 Attribution: SNG Copenhagen 1164-7; Mueller pl. 2, 13; HGC 3.2, 1755; Sear SG 6818. Note: Wildwinds says obverse head is Athena; auctions say "young male head." Demos, Leu & CNG say "Uncertain mint in Western Asia Minor" Agora says "Uncertain Macedonian mint, struck 295/4-289/8"

I sure wasn't bidding on it, I promise. Furthermore, I like the lower-grade versions posted by @CPK and @Ryro. Here's a low-grade one I snagged on eBay, badly mis-listed and very cheap and whacked with banker's marks: That being said, I am going to venture an inexpert opinion - do you notice the three lower-grade versions posted here have a slight concave/convex strike to them? The CNG example looks very, very "flat" especially on the obverse. I don't care for this look, as it reminds me of all those "Bulgarian" fakes on eBay that have been pressed by a machine rather than struck. Undoubtedly the experts at CNG have far more knowledge about these matters than I do, but despite its high grade, I don't like it. A few die-matches would give me more confidence in it, but I'm still not crazy about its look. The beauty posted by @jdmKY was posted as I typed this - it too seems less concave/convex, but it doesn't look "pressed" to me. And that portrait is spectacular - compare it to the CNG example, which is far sketchier. Maybe this issue had a wide range of striking characteristics/artistic merit - those were troubled times. Again, I'm a rank amateur!