Marsyas Mike

Late in the reign of Commodus, stars started appearing on his coins in a somewhat haphazard way. I recently got one. Below is my efforts to attribute it, with notes on the stars (any corrections or clarifications welcome on this mess!) - Herodian's comments on a comet at that time from an Agora auction: Commodus Denarius (192 A.D.) Rome Mint L AEL AVREL COMM AVG P FEL, laureate head right / P M TR P XVII IMP VIII COS VII P P, Fides Militum standing left holding standard and cornucopiae, star in right field RIC III 234; BMCRE 318-321; Cohen RSC 583/583a. (2.56 grams / 17 x 16 mm) eBay Dec. 2023 Note: Three types in OCRE: RIC III 232: No star, std. right RIC III 233: No star, std. left RIC III 234: Star, standing left For some reason, many auctions with stars cite RIC 233. Also, Wildwinds cites RIC 233 only, "star in left or right field, or no star. RIC 233, RSC 583-583a, BMC 316-317" British Museum citations are confusing: RIC 234 is not cited at all, though four of them match (with star) BMCRE numbers/stars: 316: No star (RIC 232); this seems to be an error; Fides is standing left like all the others; OCRE says she should be standing right on RIC 232. 317: Star left (RIC 233) 318-321: Star right (RIC 233) "The presence of the star on some coins issued late in Commodus' reign is referred to in BMC merely as a good omen, however Herodian records that a comet appeared at that time." Agora Auctions https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=3706449

Very interesting, RC. Indeed, a while back I bought a Faustina II denarius I was hoping just had some crud on it (seller's photos were not clear). But no, it is a giant pit, turned green, and so a base metal core. But rather than a limes, it sure seems to be a fourree - plated rather than debased. Faustina II Fourrée Denarius (176-180 A.D.) 4th post. issue Rome Mint DIVA FAVSTINA PIA, bare-headed, draped bust right / CONSECRATIO, altar-enclosure with door in front and antefixae ("horns" per RIC) on corners. RIC III Marcus Aurelius 746; BMCRE 725-27; Cohen 75. (2.58 grams / 17 x 16 mm) eBay Aug. 2022 $12.00 Here's a close-up of the pit:

Great coin @DonnaML. And your write-up, as always, is very informative. For the first time in a long time, I actually have one of your featured Republicans. Mine might qualify for Worst of Show - Centering Category:

I've been following your travails here @Nerosmyfavorite68 and I wanted to say I'm very sorry to hear about your troubles with this great coin. And I agree, there's no excuse for mailing an ancient coin in a "floppy" envelope, even if padded. Since I bottom feed off eBay, I sometimes get shoddy packaging like this, but surprising to say, perhaps, not very often. I don't think anything has shown up broken yet, but I've lost a couple of sestertii that were shipped loose, without being secured at all, in a standard, un-padded envelope. The coin shifts around within the envelope, finally causing one of the seams to split. The Post Office delivers the envelope, but without the coin. This makes it difficult to resolve with the seller because the tracking correctly shows it was delivered - yeah, the envelope, but not the coin. Not the Post Office's fault. But there might be some interesting items underneath the PO mail sorting machinery. But that's eBay - my expectations are low. There's no excuse for a "real" auction house to ship anything like this, not for the fees they charge.

Interesting coin @seth77. I just got one of these and it took me a long time to attribute it because I had a real hard time finding the magistrate - there were a lot of them! Finally, I did get a magistrate match and figured it out. I think this is a "late period" too, since the star in the reverse field seems to have a later date (per the auctions, etc. I looked at): Ionia, Smyrna Æ Homereion Megakles, Magistrate (c. 74-50 B.C.) Laureate head of Apollo right / ΣMΥΡNAIΩN | [M]EΓAKΛHΣ poet Homer seated left, resting chin on right hand, scroll in left, transverse scepter behind, star in left field Cf. Milne, Autonomous 379-380 (13.00 grams / 23 x 22 mm) eBay Dec. 2023 Notes: Found only one specimen for magistrate MEΓAKΛHΣ (Megakles); not a die-match: Roma Numismatics Limited E-Sale 16; Lot 121; 28.02.2015 Cf. Milne, Autonomous 379-380. CNG (drachm): "magistrate Megakles is only known for Milne’s period XVII coinage, and the obverse die link to the drachms of Apollonios of this period confirms this placement."

Nice grouping. That Lysimachos tetradrachm is my favorite, if only because I wanted one for a long time. Someday... I also voted for Pompey - I agree, that is a cheap way to get his portrait. I blundered onto one in '22:

I've had really good luck with distilled water, rather to my surprise. Mostly I use it on AE coins for crud and bronze disease, but the few silver coins I've soaked do not seem harmed.

A Vespasian tetradrachm recently came my way with some doubling - note the "ghost chin" and what appears to be two sets of lips. Vespasian was a good kisser, all the ancient sources agree! I am not sure how only part of the strike could be doubled, or if this is a die-clash or some other technical malfunction.

Some very attractive coins. Here's my Malta crown...

Interesting discussion. Like many, I do like a nice sand patina, but how to tell real from fraudulent is beyond me. Recently I got a budget sestertius of Hadrian with a rather dramatic sand patina. I thought about soaking to see if it will come off, but I like it so much as is I don't want to mess with it. In my limited experience, seeing a big Imperial (not Provincial) AE like this with a sand patina is fairly unusual, so it may well be a fake "enhancement" of the surfaces. The coin seems to be legit, as I found a few die-matches from reliable places: That squiggly line in Minerva's shield is a snake. RIC II Part 3 (2nd ed.) 668 (old RIC II 611b); BMCRE 1254; Cohen 1067.

Maybe. Sometimes on ancient double strikes there is a kind of blurring or elongation effect. And note the two hair buns and the two Π characters are in the same orientation to each other. But I don't know for sure!

Interesting tet, @ambr0zie, My first thought about the doubled reverse legend is that it is a double-struck/die-shift going on. Note the doubling of Poppaea's chin (not a "double chin" as part of the portrait's rendition, but a "ghost" chin beneath) which is matched on her ponytail or bun or whatever that is her hair is bunched in at her neck. She might also have two ears on the same side of her head, like a Picasso? My uneducated guess is that the strike caused this doubling, including the extra Greek P in her name. I'm not sure about Nero's hair style type. I got two poor specimens of this type last year; for some reason, a lot of Egyptian material has been showing up on eBay, including a lot of poor condition stuff I can afford. My tetradrachm collection has expanded greatly. As far as I can tell these are both Year LΙ (10) = (63-64 A.D.) RPC I 5275 (Average weight 12.26 grams; Specimens 17); Dattari (Savio) 196; Geissen 157; Emmett 128.10; Kampmann/Ganschow 14.78; Milne 217.

C. Considius Paetus also issued coins in 46 B.C., probably for Caesar's triumphs - I believe this is the very first Roman Republican coin I ever got, way back in '88: Roman Republic Denarius C. Considius Paetus (46 B.C.) Rome Mint Laureate head of Apollo right / Curule chair with wreath, C•CONSIDIUS above, PAETI in exergue. Crawford 465/1b; Considia 3; Sydenham 990a. (4.01 grams / 16 mm) McDaniels May 1988

An interesting year for sure. The huge triumph celebrated by Caesar in 46 BC was the occasion for a lot of coins being issued, many of them wretchedly struck. I have a couple: Carisius biga and quadriga: Carisius moneyer's instruments - Mn. Cordius Rufus - Dioscuri & Venus: Mn. Cordius Rufus - dolphin

An interesting discussion for sure. I just got a scarce sestertius of Lucius Verus from an eBay lot and I thought I was looking at two reverse die-matches - but nope, it was only one. Same coin, one of them had a bunch of green removed; not sure it qualifies as "tooling" or "cleaning" but I thought it might pertain to this discussion. Here's mine (on top) with two others (CNG auctions the same coin): The auctions for the cleaned/uncleaned coin are here - there must be a mistake with the weights - 21.11 grams before the green was removed then 27.81 grams after the cleaning! I thought cleaning made them lighter: https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=312637 https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=238690 For what it's worth, I preferred the pre-cleaning green version (it doesn't appear to be BD - if it is BD, then cleaning is a good thing, of course). I'm also guessing both versions had some reverse smoothing as well. For those wondering, the coin in question is a Lucius Verus sestertius (cuirassed bust) RIC III Marcus Aurelius 1430; Cohen RSC 191; Banti 121. That's Parthia sitting on shields feeling sad. This seems to be a scarce coin - other than the CNG example above, I found one other, an obverse die-match to mine: Also a CNG auction: https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=4112935

Looks okay to me too. I think the low-grade silver/alloy can sometimes experience a leaching process that leaves them a bit pock-marked and light weight.

Happy New Year to you all. My latest Commodus is from the last year of his reign. I had a difficult time attributing it, for reasons I try to describe below (if anybody has corrections or clarifications, I'd be much obliged): Commodus Denarius (192 A.D.) Rome Mint L AEL AVREL COMM AVG P FEL, laureate head right / P M TR P XVII IMP VIII COS VII P P, Fides Militum standing left holding standard and cornucopiae, star in right field RIC III 234; BMCRE 318-321; Cohen RSC 583a. (2.56 grams / 17 x 16 mm) eBay Dec. 2023 Note: Three types in OCRE: RIC III 232: No star, standing right RIC III 233: No star, standing left RIC III 234: Star, standing left For some reason, many auctions with stars cite RIC 233. Also, Wildwinds cites RIC 233 only, "star in left or right field, or no star. RIC 233, RSC 583-583a, BMC 316-317" British Museum citations are confusing: RIC 234 is not cited at all, though four of them match (with star) BMCRE numbers/stars: 316: No star (RIC 232); this seems to be an error; Fides is standing left like all the others; OCRE says she should be standing right on RIC 232. 317: Star left (RIC 233) 318-321: Star right (RIC 233) "The presence of the star on some coins issued late in Commodus' reign is referred to in BMC merely as a good omen, however Herodian records that a comet appeared at that time." Agora Auctions

Nice finds, @expat. Those little Cappadocian types with the grain ears are charming coins, I think. Here are my two, both cheapies (under ten bucks):

Very interesting @Roman Collector - I had no idea there were so many varieties. The globe/ostrich egg on the seat is compelling. I have the most common type, kind of scruffy, not the best artwork (headless peacock wearing a pantsuit variety):

Nice one, @expat - I like the big head on Juno - makes her look smart. I got one of these earlier this year: Roman Republic Denarius - L. Procilius (80 B.C.) Rome Mint S·C, laureate head of Jupiter right / L· PROCILI | F, Juno Sospita advancing right, brandishing shield and hurling spear, serpent before. Procilia 1; Crawford 379/1. (3.82 grams / 19 x 17 mm) eBay May 2023 Die-Match Characterstics: Obv: Hair at nape curls into C. Rev: Large R; crooked F. Die-Match Obv. & Rev.: Bertolami Fine Arts Auction 19; Lot 365; 11.11.2015 Die-Match Obverse: Bibliothèque nationale de France Identifier REP-17577 (CRRO example)

Thanks @DonnaML - as with all die-matches, I'm never 100% either. The nose on mine may match your example's but mine is somewhat clotted with green...snot? Patina, I mean! Yuck. Sorry. When I got this one, I did crawl around the web looking for die-matches and here is what I found - wishful thinking, perhaps: Die-Match Obv. & Rev.: Bertolami Fine Arts E-Auction 50; Lot 593; 10.12.2017 Die-Match Obverse: Roma Numismatics Limited E-Live Auction 6; Lot 235; 25.03.2023

@DonnaML that is a spectacular grouping, with top-notch attribution and issue notes. Thanks for sharing. My contribution - an obverse die-match to your Philip II Liberalitas sestertius? The wonky lettering here and there, the way the laurels point at the H...maybe?

Poking around a bit more on this, I found the British Museum has one of these at 4.84 grams - pretty light for an as/dupondius. I don't think it is a die-match to mine, but it is similar-looking, I think: https://www.britishmuseum.org/collection/object/C_R-3672

Thank you @John Conduitt @dougsmit @maridvnvm @Ancient Coin Hunter for weighing in on this topic - it is good to see those other AE examples. It certainly isn't an area I actively collect - I just go for cheap unusual stuff and hope I learn something along the way. Yeah, I wondered that too - sometimes finding a lot of die-matches is not necessarily a good thing, especially for a coin that (whatever it is) is going to be "unofficial" even if it is ancient. As with so many things, I'll never know.

That's a lovely medal @DonnaML - the die-work is much better than the Ottoman example above. Thanks for sharing that.