sand

After watching the above Youtube videos, it seems like, an ultrasound cleaner, doesn't produce enough force, to dislodge any dirt or deposits, on coins. Perhaps the ultrasonic cleaners, in the Youtube videos, are too cheap, to create much force. Perhaps a more expensive ultrasonic cleaner, would work. I don't know. The idea of an ultrasonic cleaner sounds interesting. Perhaps a very high frequency sound wave, therefore with a very small wavelengh, in the air, or in a liquid, could interact with smaller objects, which have adhered to the coin. Sort of like, how a very high energy particle accelerator, is able to interact with the quarks, which are inside of a proton. I wonder, if a water pick would work. It would definitly have a lot of force. If one used, one of the smaller nozzles, to create a very narrow beam of water, then maybe that would be able to dislodge some of the dirt and adhesions, on a coin. I don't know. One would want to use distilled water, not tap water. I have a water pick. Maybe I'll try it, sometime.

This is an interesting idea. I had never heard of an ultrasonic cleaner, until I read the OP post. Therefore, I did the following search on Youtube. ultrasonic cleaner coins I found the following 3 videos. In the 1st video, the person used warm water with the ultrasonic cleaner. In the 2nd video, it doesn't seem to say, what type of liquid the person used, but it seems to be something other than just water, because of the suds. In the 3rd video, it doesn't seem to say, what type of liquid the person used. In video 1 and video 2, the ultrasonic cleaner didn't seem to have any effect, on the patina, or on the dirt, and the ultrasonic cleaner seemed to basically fail to do anything useful. In video 3, the ultrasonic cleaner seemed to remove the patina from some of the coins. However, I wonder if the liquid was something strong, such as acetone. If the person used acetone, then perhaps the ultrasonic cleaner didn't contribute anything, and the coins were cleaned via the acetone. For myself, I won't be buying an ultrasonic cleaner, for the purpose of cleaning coins. From the Youtube videos, it seems like, an ultrasonic cleaner does almost nothing. However, this is only 3 videos. Perhaps, if I had the time to find 100 videos, and watch them all, then I would have a more accurate idea, about whether ultrasonic cleaners work for coins. Video 1 This video was not allowed to be embedded in this post, for some reason. But, you can click on the link, and watch the video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5HjPpioocs Video 2 Video 3

It's interesting. I collect Byzantine coins. I usually use the word "Byzantine" for the Empire from 498 AD, when Anastasius I created the first large 40 nummi bronze coins, to 1453 AD. However, sometimes I use the phrase "Eastern Roman Empire" instead of "Byzantine". To me, the Byzantine Empire was the Eastern Roman Empire. But, I still like the word "Byzantine". Why? I'm not sure. Maybe it's because, the word "Byzantine" implies to me, that the Eastern Roman Empire changed, over the centuries.

Ha! I remember seeing the OP advertisement on TV, a few weeks ago, when I was visiting someone who has cable TV. I think that's the only time, that I've ever seen ancient coins on TV, except for that Scooby Doo "Coin! Coin! Coin!" episode. And there was one time, on a Columbo episode, or some other such show, where some old guy got his coin collection stolen, and he was therefore losing his mind, and he kept saying "My children! My children!" referring to his coins. But I don't remember, if the coins were ancient or not, because that was a long time ago. Anyway, when I saw the OP advertisement, I thought to myself, "Are ancient coins becoming that popular?". Maybe soon, we'll see Matt Damon on TV, urging everyone to invest in ancient coins, because "Fortune favors the brave".

Here it is, on Vcoins. It can be yours, for 100 euros plus shipping etc. To me, the scratches under the pegasus, and the scratches near the back of the helmet, look like cleaning scratches, caused by someone's inexpert initial attempt to clean the coin, which would lower the value of the coin by a large amount. There also seems to be graffito, in the form of a scratched "X", under the pegasus's nose, but that seems laughably minor, compared to everything else that has been done to this poor coin. The drill holes seem modern, but I'm not certain of that, because I'm not an expert in such things. This is not my coin. https://www.vcoins.com/en/stores/savoca_gmbh__co_kg/234/product/corinthia_corinth_circa_375300_bc_ar_stater/1741966/Default.aspx Savoca is the seller. Here's the seller description. "CORINTHIA, Corinth. Circa 375-300 BC. AR Stater (20mm, 6.82g). Pegasos flying left / Helmeted head of Athena left; E and torch behind. Pegasi 372; BCD Corinth 95; HGC 4, 1848. Several holes, otherwise VF"

Same here.

Interesting. I don't speak much Spanish. I plugged "campos repasados" into the Google search Spanish-to-English translator, and the result was "fields reviewed", which seems like it could mean "fields tooled" or "fields smoothed". Perhaps the Google search Spanish-to-English translator is not very accurate, for numismatic phrases.

Interesting. Here's an idea. Clean off the dirt, but don't remove the encrustations and patina (the hard green stuff or hard brown stuff), and share photos of the result on this thread. Then, see what people say, regarding whether to remove the encrustations. Then, if you decide to remove the encrustations, then remove the encrustations, but don't remove the patina, and share photos of the result on this thread. Then, see what people say, regarding whether to remove the patina. Then, if you decide to remove the patina, then remove the patina, and share photos of the result on this thread.

P.P.S. : Another problem with removing patina is, how do you know, where to stop? If the patina is thick, then one can carve an entire design, out of the patina. One can selectively remove patina from the devices, and carve lines and trenches here and there. In my opinion, this is tooling, even if one doesn't touch the un-corroded part of the metal. You don't know, if the result, is an accurate reflection of the original design.

P.S. : It seems that, depending on whom you ask, smoothing is done, for one or more of the following purposes. 1. To make the patina appear smoother. 2. To make the edges of the devices more well defined. 3. To tool the coin. This includes carving a design out of the patina, or carving a design out of the metal.

I won't buy a coin, which is described by the seller as "smoothed". However, in ancient numismatics, the word "smoothed" seems to have many different definitions, depending on whom you ask. In the definitions below, I define "patina" to mean the hard layer of corrosion, often green or brown, for bronze coins. Smoothed : Definition 1 : Some of the patina has been removed, but none of the metal has been removed. However, if I remember correctly, the patina is a combination of the metal and corrosion. In other words, if I remember correctly, the patina contains some of the original metal of the coin, combined with corrosion. Therefore, if I remember correctly, if patina has been removed, then metal has been removed. Smoothed : Definition 2 : Metal has been removed, in the fields. Often, such a coin has been aritifically re-patinated. Smoothed : Definition 3 : Metal has been removed, in the devices, and in the fields. Often, such a coin has been artificially re-patinated. Smoothed : Definition 4 : Patina has been selectively removed, in the fields, but not in the devices, in order to make the devices more well defined. Smoothed : Definition 5 : Patina and metal have been selectively removed, in the fields, but not in the devices, in order to make the devices more well defined. Often, such a coin has been artificially re-patinated. Smoothed : Definition 6 : Tooled. Often, such a coin has been artificially re-patinated. Just looking at the photos of the OP coin, I can't tell, that it is smoothed. However, I'm not an expert. Perhaps the seller discovered the smoothing, by looking at the coin, with a coin microscope, and saw signs of a dremel or some other tool. Or, perhaps the coin is unnaturally smooth, and not rough enough. I don't know.

At first glance, I would have been fooled. I don't know, if I were to study the photos more carefully, if I would have been fooled. Maybe. The coin has a lot of dirt or toning, or perhaps fake toning, which could be hiding signs of being a fake. Perhaps the edge has a casting seam. Or, perhaps the edge has file marks, which are designed to erase a casting seam. But, one can't usually see much of the edge, on photos of the obverse and reverse. For myself, I would prefer, that people not sell fakes, even if they advertise the coin as being fake (for example Lanz, and Frank Robinson). Someone may buy the fake, and then try to sell it, pretending that it's authentic. In my opinion, there are enough fakes out there, without someone trying to sell more of them.

There were some good films in the 1980s. Some of my favorites : Raiders Of The Lost Ark (1981), Blade Runner (1982), Brainstorm (1983), The Navigator : A Medieval Odyssey (1988). Here's an obvious pair of different sized twins, in my collection. The Smaller Coin Alexander III The Great Posthumous Issue AR Drachm. 323 BC to 280 BC. Uncertain Mint In Western Asia Minor. Price 2733. Diameter = 16 mm. Weight = 4.16 grams. Obverse Heracles In Lion Skin. Reverse Zeus On Throne. The Larger Coin Alexander III The Great Posthumous Issue AR Tetradrachm. 280 BC to 200 BC. Odessos Mint. Price 1163. Diameter = 28 mm. Weight = 16.74 grams. Obverse Heracles In Lion Skin. Reverse Zeus On Throne.

Here's a Youtube video by TheCoinGeek, in which 2 of the coins that he ordered, are in the new NGC AirView slabs. The AirView part of the video, starts at 6:02. Myself, I am wary of the AirView slabs, for the reasons mentioned earlier in this thread. Pressure on the high points of the coin, and whether the plastic layers really are inert, and will stay inert for decades. I'm always wary, of any kind of plastic, even PVC free plastic.

@Severus Alexander P.S. : See my 2nd post above, for more info, about trying to figure out the approximate dates, of Ban Liang coins, and how difficult it is. I've tried to compare the style of characters, on my Ban Liang coins, versus the color photos of coins in the G&F book, to try to figure out, the approximate dates of my Ban Liangs. And, I've tried to compare the diameters and weights, and the flan shapes, of my Ban Liangs, versus the diameters and weights, and flan shapes, of the examples in the G&F book, to try to figure out the approximate dates of my Ban Liangs. So far, I haven't had much success. However, I haven't spent a large amount of time, on this. I'm going to spend more time on this, when I take photos of my Ban Liangs.

@Severus Alexander Thanks for your comments. You have some really nice examples of early Chinese round coins. My favorites, in order of most favorite first, are as follows. 1. Your round hole coin Hartill 6.3. I really like the patina, with its many colors, and the overall appearance of the coin. And, it's the oldest of the bunch. Hartill says this coin has a rarity of 8, meaning that it's halfway between "scarce" and "common". G&F, as I mentioned above, says this coin is "Rare", which they define as "Coins are rarely available in groups, can be difficult to find on the numismatic market". According to G&F, this coin was cast from 403 BC to 378 BC. Hartill, on the other hand, says that this coin was cast from 350 BC to 220 BC. I usually refer to the dates in G&F, because G&F has more information than Hartill, for the early Chinese coins. According to G&F, this coin was "probably cast in the ancient Wei State city Wangyuan (literally meaning "King's city") in Shaanxi, south-east of Yuanqu county". I don't know when Wangyuan was captured, or by whom. In fact, I have not found Wangyuan in Wikipedia. However, G&F says that the Wei (Liang) state existed from 778 BC to 225 BC. The Wei (Liang) state slowly declined from 344 BC to 225 BC. The Wei (Liang) state was finally conquered by the Qin state in 225 BC, when the Qin state besieged the Wei (Liang) capital city Daliang, and then the Qin general Wang Ben diverted the Yellow River and flooded and destroyed Daliang, and afterward, the Wei (Liang) king surrendered. (G&F page 14) 2. Your 32 mm 4.73 grams Ban Liang. I like the green patina, and the overall appearance of the coin. I'm not very good at figuring out, the approximate dates of Ban Liangs. When I look at all of the examples in G&F, it seems that the size of your coin (32 mm) means that it is no later than the early Western Han Dynasty, no later than 182 BC. The early Qin state Ban Liangs, from 378 BC to 344 BC, seem to have weights of 6 grams to 64 grams. Therefore, it seems like your Ban Liang is probably not from the early Qin state. The middle period Qin state Ban Liangs, from 344 BC to 336 BC, seem to have weights from 8 grams to 11 grams. Therefore, it seems like your Ban Liang is probably not from the middle period Qin state. By process of elimination, it seems like your 32 mm 4.73 grams Ban Liang is probably from either the late period Qin state (336 BC to 221 BC), or the Qin Dynasty (221 BC to 207 BC), or the early Western Han Dynasty (which cast similar Ban Liangs from 186 BC to 182 BC). However, I could be incorrect. Perhaps an expert could narrow it down, from the style of the characters on your Ban Liang, or perhaps from the flan shape, but I'm not expert enough to do that (yet). It's a nice coin. 3. Your Han Dynasty H7.17 Ban Liang. The patina is amazing. On the obverse, at the top, I've seen that grayish purple patina before, and I really like it, but I don't have any Ban Liangs with that color of patina. And, on the obverse, all of the many colors at the bottom of the coin, are very pretty. And on the reverse, the many colors, and the bit of cloth (or cloth impression), are quite nice. And the casting sprue is interesting. 4. Your Qi state Hartill 6.23. Hartill says this coin has a rarity of "6", meaning "scarce". G&F says this coin is "Very Rare", which they define as "Coins are almost never available in groups, rarely appear on the market". Therefore, this is probably the rarest of the 4 coins. Hartill says, that this coin was cast between 300 BC and 220 BC. G&F says, that this coin was cast circa 279 BC by King Xiang in Yidu in Shandong in the Qi state. It's an interesting coin. I don't have one of these. I'm also a generalist collector (ancient Greek 20 coins, ancient Roman 50 coins, ancient Africa 4 coins, ancient Middle East 12 coins, Byzantine 40 coins, Celtic 1 coin, medieval 9 coins, Spanish colonial 5 coins, ancient and medieval Chinese 40 coins, medieval Vietnamese 6 coins, modern Japanese 1 coin, modern England 20 coins, and US 20 coins plus a Lincon cent collection). Interestingly, just yesterday I ordered "One Thousand Years Of Wu Zhu Coinage" by Gratzer & Fishman. It's supposed to arrive tomorrow. The G&F book "The First Round Coins Of China" seems to cover the round Chinese coins from 403 BC to 118 BC, which includes the round hole coins, and all of the Ban Liangs, and other types of coins, with the exception that it doesn't cover the Wu Zhu round coins, which seem to have started in 206 BC (I'm not certain about that date). The G&F book "One Thousand Years Of Wu Zhu Coinage" seems to cover all of the Wu Zhu coins, which seem to have been cast from 206 BC to 971 AD, although I could be incorrect about the exact dates. However, there were other types of coins cast during that time period, such as various types of Wang Mang coins (there is a G&F book for Wang Mang coins), and various types of Tang Dynasty coins, etc. Looking at the preview of the book, it seems to have color photos of the coins. I only have 4 Wu Zhu coins at the moment, but the G&F early round coins book is so good, that I decided to buy the Wu Zhu book, because I'm guessing that it will be very interesting to read, and I'd like to learn more about the Wu Zhu coins. And, currently it only costs $55 on Amazon, plus tax. So, for me, a generalist collector with approximately 40 coins from China (ancient and medieval), I think it will be worth it. However, in the past, I tended to go off the deep end, with books. I have a lot of books. But, I'm trying to stop buying so many books. By the way, the G&F early round coins book currently is only $57 plus tax on Amazon. So, to try to finish answering your questions, about whether to buy the G&F books. G&F "The First Round Coins Of China". For me, I think it's a fun and interesting book, to read, and to look at the color photos of the coins. It has a lot of words, and a lot of color photos of coins. It has a lot of information. I have 9 Ban Liang coins, with the following measurements : 36 mm 9.42 grams, 35 mm 7.32 grams, 32 mm 7.11 grams, 32 mm 3.68 grams, 31 mm 6.84 grams, 31 mm 4.84 grams, 31 mm 4 grams, 28 mm 3.25 grams, and 24 mm 2.40 grams. It seems to be very difficult, to figure out the approximate dates of Ban Liang coins. Even with the G&F book, I'm still not very sure, when my Ban Liang coins were cast, other than what the seller descriptions say, and I'm not sure that I believe all of the seller descriptions. However, I haven't spent much time, trying to figure it out. I plan to take photos of my Ban Liang coins soon. Perhaps then, I'll make a bigger effort, to try to figure out, the approximate dates when the Ban Liangs were cast. If I have any hope at all, it will be because of the G&F book. See my notes above in this post, for more info about this book. G&F "One Thousand Years Of Wu Zhu Coinage". From the previews, it looks like it has a similar organization, as the G&F early round coins book. Therefore, I'm guessing, that this book will also be fun and interesting to read, and to look at the coin color photos, for me at least. I'll try to remember to add a post to this thread, after this book arrives, and after I've looked at it for awhile. See my notes above in this post, for more info about this book. G&F "The Numismatic Legacy of Wang Mang". From the previews, it looks like it has a similar organization, as the G&F early round coins book, and coin color photos. I don't have this book. I'm not as interested in the Wang Mang coins, as the earlier coins. Therefore, I don't know if I'll ever order this book. However, I'm guessing that it's a good book.

@CPK That's a nice Ban Liang. The Ban Liang coins are extremely interesting (to me), and there are hundreds of varieties, with varying widths, varying thicknesses, varying weights, and varying styles of calligraphy. (G&F page 65) The Ban Liang coins were cast, over a huge span of time, from circa 378 BC to 118 BC. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ban_Liang I have a very hard time, figuring out the approximate date, of some of the Ban Liang coins, because most Ban Liang coins have the same 2 characters : Ban and Liang (of course). There are some exceptions, such as coins with 2 Ban characters and 2 Liang characters (G&F A13.261 on page 216), coins with 2 Ban characters and no Liang character (G&F pages 212 to 213), coins with 2 Liang characters and no Ban character (G&F pages 214 to 215), coins with only one Ban character and no Liang character (G&F page 211), iron Ban Liang coins (G&F page 208), coins with the Ban character on the left and the Liang character on the right, coins with either the Ban character or the Liang character upside down, coins with other extra characters, and so on. According to G&F, even the experts who write the books, have difficulty figuring out, the approximate dates of early Ban Liang coins from the Qin state. They use archeological information when available, and they measure the physical attributes of the coins (size, weight, etc), and they analyze the style of the coins. (G&F page 65)

Here is my example, of one of the earliest Chinese round coins. Much of the following information, is from the book "The First Round Coins Of China" by Gratzer & Fishman published in 2017 (henceforth called "Gratzer & Fishman" or "G&F"). G&F is, in my opinion, the best English language book on the early round coins of China. It has excellent information, and many color photos of coins. Note that, all metal Chinese coins were cast, not struck, until 1889 AD, with the exception of the Chu gold block money from 400 BC to 220 BC. (Hartill page 79) (That's the only exception that I know. Are there other exceptions?) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Chinese_coinage#Gold https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ying_Yuan Before circa 403 BC, Chinese coins were not round. The non-round Chinese coins included cowrie shells (as early as circa 1400 BC), imitations of cowrie shells made of bone, stone, bronze, and gold (as early as circa 1300 BC), spade coins (as early as circa 1200 BC), knife coins (as early as circa 700 BC), and "ghost face" (also called "ant nose") bronze (alloyed with lead) imitations of cowrie shells inscribed with Chinese characters (as early as 600 BC). (G&F pages ii to iv) An interesting question : Which of the pre-403 BC non-round Chinese coins, should be called "coins", rather than "money"? However, I won't try to figure that out, in this post. The earliest Chinese round coins were cast circa 403 BC, during the Zhou Dynasty, during the "Warring States Period". (G&F pages 1 through 59) This was when, the Zhou Dynasty had lost most of its control over its various states, which then fought against each other. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zhou_dynasty https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warring_States_period Almost all of the earliest Chinese round coins, had a round hole in the center of the coin, rather than the square hole that most of the later Chinese round coins had. The only 2 possible exceptions to this "round hole rule", are 2 exceedingly rare coin types, which have square holes : type G&F A6.3 (G&F page 17) and type G&F A11.15 (G&F page 59). Both of these possible exceptions, have not been accurately dated, and could date as far back as circa 403 BC, or as recently as circa 225 BC and 221 BC respectively. (G&F pages 17 and 59) The earliest Chinese round coins were cast, before the first "Ban Liang" coins. The "Ban Liang" coins were round coins, usually with a square hole (sometimes with a round hole), which were cast by the Qin state, as early as circa 378 BC. (G&F page 72) By 221 BC, the Qin state had conquered all of the other warring states, and the Qin state became the Qin Dynasty. After that, the Ban Liang coins became the only legal coinage of China (G&F page viii), until the Western Han Dynasty began casting other types of square hole coins in 206 BC (while also continuing to cast Ban Liang coins). (Hartill pages 83 to 85) All of the types of the earliest Chinese round coins are either rare, very rare, extremely rare, or exceedingly rare. (G&F pages 1 through 59) My example is of the only type (G&F A6.4), which is merely rare. (G&F pages 17 to 19) Unfortunately, there are many fakes, of the earliest Chinese round coins. For the earliest Chinese round coins, there are many more fake coins than authentic coins. (G&F page xiv) China. Zhou Dynasty. Warring States Period. Wei (Liang) State. Circa 403 BC To 378 BC. Probably cast in the ancient city Wangyuan (literally meaning "King's city"). Hartill 6.3. Schjoth 73. Gratzer & Fishman A6.4. 38.7 mm. 7.74 grams. Obverse Character Yuan (literally meaning "city"). Reverse blank.

@ValiantKnight Nice. @TheTrachyEnjoyer It looks like your John VIII stavraton, and my John VIII stavraton, are a die match, for both the obverse and reverse. They even seem to have a similar amount of die wear. @Severus Alexander Nice collection of very late Byzantine silver and bronze.

@Simon Nice stavrata and half stavraton. As a Byzantine collector, I am fascinated by these late silver coins. They are certainly a long way, from the earliest Byzantine coins of the 5th century AD. Here are my 2 examples. Here is my Manuel II half stavraton. These are seller photos. Manuel II : AR Half Stavraton. 1391 AD To 1425 AD. Constantinople Mint. Sear 2551. Grierson 1517. 20 mm. 3.68 grams. Obverse Jesus Christ Bust Facing Front With Halo. Reverse Bust Of Emperor Facing Front "M-A-N-O-V-H-Lambda" Greek For "Manuel" Clockwise Starting At 12 O'Clock. And here is my John VIII stavraton. The 2nd pair of photos, shows the obverse with different lighting. John VIII : AR Stavraton. 1425 AD To 1448 AD. Constantinople Mint. Sear 2563. 23 mm. 6.76 grams. Obverse Jesus Christ Bust Facing Front With Halo. Reverse Bust Of Emperor Facing Front "IWAN" Greek For "John" In Outer Legend Clockwise Starting At 12 O'Clock.

It took them 17 days to ship? Did you order from Opisthodomos? Did they give you a tracking number? If so, does the tracking number say, that they shipped today?

I live in the USA. Now that I have Youtube Premium (no advertisements), and no cable TV (I quit that, many years ago), I see very few advertisements. One of the few times, that I see advertisements, is when I visit my mother, because she watches cable TV. I don't know how she can stand, to watch the same advertisements, and the same jokes ("now that you are a teenager, you may be having certain urges"), over and over. I usually mute the advertisements, when I'm watching TV with her. She used to buy a lot of jewelry from TV shows like QVC or JTV, and she still likes to watch the jewelry shows, but I think (I hope) she has stopped buying that stuff, for the most part. She said, that the jewelry she received, was low quality.

I don't mind, if a Vcoins dealer buys a coin on Vcoins, and then tries to sell the coin on Vcoins at a higher price. To me, it's just a free market, it's just capitalism. However, one thing that annoys me, is when, people try to sell gold plated coins on TV, at ridiculous prices. In fact, a lot of low quality products, that are sold on TV, annoy me. Medications that "treat" illness but don't cure illness, life insurance, reverse mortgages, debt consolidation, loans, pills to make you smarter (endorsed by "actual neuroscientists"), "fortune favors the brave" bitcoins, diet plans, "quit smoking" plans, low quality jewelry at ridiculous prices, etc. The problem is, some of these product claims, are difficult to disprove. What should be done about such things? Spread the word, and teach your children, and teach everyone, not to be suckered by such things, and to shop around, and do your own research, before buying something that you see on TV.

In the distant future, perhaps bullion coins will continue to be used, as a store of value, and as a hedge against inflation. Perhaps bullion coins will save the hobby of coin collecting. For myself, I got back into coin collecting, after a long hiatus, because of my interest in bullion coins.

I sympathize with your frustrations. My (mostly) unified system, is to use an Abafil velvet tray, which has only 1 huge compartment. I keep most of my favorite ancient Greek coins, ancient Africa coins, and ancient Middle East coins (32 coins) in 1 tray (the exception is 2 slabbed coins, which I keep in a cardboard box). I keep my favorite ancient Roman coins in 1 tray (46 coins). I keep my favorite Byzantine coins in 1 tray (34 coins). I keep my favorite Chinese, Vietnamese, and Japanese coins in 1 tray (36 coins). And, I keep my favorite Celtic, medieval, Spanish colonial, English, and US coins in 1 tray (43 coins, except for my Lincoln cent collection, which is in albums). I like this approach, because I can arrange the coins the way I want (for example, chronological order), and there is no wasted space between coins. I keep each tray in a separate Abafil "Diplomat 2" case. The "Diplomat 2" case is designed to contain 2 regular depth trays, stacked on top of each other. But, I just keep 1 tray in each case. This allows the thick coins and trachy (cup shaped) coins to be stored, and I don't have to remove a tray, to see a tray underneath. By "safe", do you guys mean, that it has no PVC or plastic or other harmful materials? By that definition, I consider my coins to be safe. However, if I ever were to drop a case, or even if I were to tilt a case at an angle greater than 20 degrees from the horizontal, or jerk a case too hard, then all of the coins would get jumbled up together, which would be bad. So far, that hasn't happened. Also, the coins tend to drift across the velvet over time, so I have to move them back to their original positions occasionally, to prevent them from eventually touching each other. I moved my exercise equipment to a different room, to minimize vibrations in the "coin room", to minimize the coin "migration". I've been using this approach, for 2 years. So far, it has worked, for me. However, it may not work, for some people. However, I also have Abafil trays with 24 compartments in each tray (approximately 48 mm interior diameter per compartment), and some trays with even larger compartments, and some deep trays, if I ever decide to switch to that approach.