NewStyleKing

Just occurred to me, when I bought a coin off someone who didn't know what it was , a very rare R5 very late post Sullan......was it moral not to let on ? As I once sais as a witty teenager, Ethics... don't they make model aircraft? Probably a joke for us Limey's!

Luckily, as for my collection, I have no morals. I was certain that many of my coins i purchased from the Bay were recent illegal dig ups probably from the balkans and smuggled into Germany! Lucky I did not need a snitch like V... to rat to the authorities. Mr B should pick his friends carefully. To quote, James Heriot, "if only they could talk!" Just think of the immoral things that the coin probably purchased.......enough to make the silver tarnish! Now that's provenance!

@edsnible, No I would not pay for a coin owned by MT or specifically cited, only generic types in the Rome-Pontic times=Mithradatic influenced, rare old catalogue types like the Thompson #3 recently sold by CNG or a rare post Sullan. I do not hold any value in provenance whatsoever of any type! Indeed ny Salton collection I bought because it's post Sullan and very very rare and indeed the Saltons did not say where it came from or seemingly were not bothered, thus their name , to me, detracts from it for that reason...we have enough un-professional and pointless collectors salting away numismatically important coins ..and museums too..Archaeolgica Museo Chieti and IGCH 2056 always comes to mind ...possession and no publication!!! ( after 70 years of possession!) MT's gross chronology was wrong, but she not always had that view. Her interpretation of NewStyle hoards was her downfall and the confusing Aesillas overstrike and its chronology! The general internal chronology is very good and . with a few exceptions, still stands! Modern provenance really is neither here nor there..ask baron Dominique de Chambrier! If RB had not used it what would have happened then, because really it could never have been a genuine authentication peg....Indeed who can believe Vecchi's story too? Once a liar always a liar?. Found on a battlefield in Greece..yeah, pull the other one! Nobody knows where they were minted, same with the Mark Anthony legionary coins! Number 7 is the closest! Rant rant, moan moan..........

But having a long modern provenance does not mean genuine. It means that a long line of people could have made a mistake and the others just played follow the leader! Thus the knack of feel, touch style strike weight etc maybe are being ignored and numismatical "skills" are being lessened! I try all these for my coins PLUS due diligence...I have taken risks only to be satisfied when the coin was in my hands!.Luckily NewStyle Fakes are uncommon or obvious!

On another platform, the great provenance search is active. Whilst our Sulla 80 says, "For me it is primarily: a coin is more interesting if it can be documented from a famous collection or an important journal articles/book. (Cited from: https://www.cointalk.com/threads/finding-provenance.403741/) For me it's the coins, maybe Dominique de Chambrier and/or Richard Beale will add piquancy to a coin...I doubt NewStyleKing/eBay would ever cut it! Surely a coin is more interesting for what it might not or might say or imply. In NewStyles the period around the time of Mithradates Vl's shenanigans around Cappadocia, Bithynia etc start to show ...it is believed... symbols that might relate to pro-Mithradatic or Roman partisanship. Coupled with the names of the first magistrate , ( who influenced the symbol's type), can re-inforce this view! Eg Aristion, known to have been an Athenian magistrate coupled with basileus Mithradates names on a NewStyle with a clear Pontic symbol! Apellikon, a thief of Teos, Athenian diplomat of the Pontic court, symbol Griffin , (badge of Teos!) and failed Stregos who tried to take Delos (?) from the Romans.....etc....Kointos=Greek for the Roman name Quintus on a symboled coin seeming to show Roma being crowned by Nike, with the previous obverse die-liked Newstyle being Roma on her own.... So it's not provenance that's worth a damn it's what the coins can show or imply...Eid Mar anyone? Maybe modern provenance is a distraction from the fact that most coins have nothing really to say! Just a long line of anonymous names....Aesillas, Quaestor!

Is the Seleucid Seleucid or a cappadocian copy? The work by Krengel or Lorber is on academia or JSTOR about Cappadocian copies. It looks like a hair curl to me! E. Krengel and C.C. Lorber, "Early Cappadocian tetradrachms in the name of Antiochus VII," NC 169 (2009), pp. 51-104. C. Lorber, A. Houghton, and P. Vesely, "Cappadocian tetradrachms in the name of Antiochus VII of Syria," NC 166 (2006), pp. 49-98.

Late NewStyle Stag post Sulla, £110 3 years ago NN auction, really cheap! A bit flattish and worn! Athens New Style Tetradrachm c79/8 BC Obs : Athena Parthenos right in tri-form helmet 30 mm 16.60 gm Thompson issue 86 Thompson catalogue: Obs 1217 Rev: New/Not in plates? Rev : ΑΘΕ ethnic Owl standing on overturned panathenaic amphora on which month mark ? control ? below 2 magistrates : NESTOR MNASEAS RF symbol : Stag All surrounded by an olive wreath

Bought on eBay for £161 in 2018. The original image is crusty and I looked at it repeatedly, looked at the source, which was Liverpool , not noted as a source of NewStyles but took a chance and bought it . Obviously genuine and it cleaned up well, which since the goddess is the personification of personal cleanliness is to be expected! How it got to Liverpool I cannot guess. Diokles is a known entity, a priest of Asklepios, Hygeia etc and as the coin says Diokles for the 2nd time, he produced 3 issues of NewStyles in the very ending of their production probably in the 40's BC as memorial pieces or gifts in a basically extinct coinage type just before Marcus Antonius crashed into Athens as the new Dionysos! These coins are of Diokles super rare, so was there a temple to cleanliness in Liverpool, did John, Paul, George & Ringo gig it ? Maybe was it in Tetradrachm Lane by Raspberry Fields...who knows? On the obverse Athena is wearing a tri-part set of earrings rather than the normal drop type. Must be worth a drachm or two more than £161 & £8 s&h but I doubt it too much cos it aint got provenance and in a plastic tomb! Maybe Sir Paul McCartney will sign it for me and Ringo use it for his Hi Hat! and then "In The End" maybe it would sell! Very rare, 4 tetradrachms of 3 Obverses, 4 reverses -all in museums- known. Example from unknown Athens sub-mint in the UK Athens New Style Tetradrachm c 47 BC Obs : Athena Parthenos right in tri-form helmet with tr-partite earrings 27mm 17.04gm Thompson (new) issue 105 Thompson catalogue: Obs: I260 Rev:NEW Rev : ΑΘΕ ethnic Owl standing on overturned panathenaic amphora on which month mark A: control ΣΩ below 2 magistrates : DIOKLES TO DEY MEDEIOS RF symbol : Hygieia All within a surrounding olive wreath

Kleopatra would have not been accepted if she was anything other than an inbred Macedonian type. Simples! A bit like poor Meghan Markel by some members of the UK royal family apparently!

Whoops, this is what I bought from the hoard, Athens New Style Tetradrachm c145/4 BC Obs : Athena Parthenos right in tri-form helmet 16.70 gm 34.8mm Thompson issue 20 Thompson catalogue : Obs 160 : Rev NEW Rev : ΑΘΕ ethnic Owl standing on overturned panathenaic amphora on which month mark Γ : LF control mark ΣΦΑΙ 2 magistrates : ΠΑΔΩ ΛΥΣΙΑ RF symbol :Forepart of Bridled Horse All within a surrounding olive wreath Athens New Style Tetradrachm c143/2 BC Obs : Athena Parthenos right in tri-form helmet 16.00 gm 34.4mm Thompson issue 22 Thompson catalogue : Obs 188 : Rev NEW Rev : ΑΘΕ ethnic Owl standing on overturned panathenaic amphora on which month mark Θ below left control mark ME 2 magistrates : ΔΙΟΦΑ ΔΙΟΔΟ LF symbol : Apollo All within a surrounding olive wreath

Lets change $ for £'s and we get this pair I bought for £94.3 each! In 2013 from the old Gitbud Neuman now NN from a hoard that somehow skipped the Balkan authorities to end up in Germany and into my lap! All the coins in the hoard were jet black/blue but were difficult to see through so I dipped them! The coins range from Thompson#1 to #28 with one outlier from the 110's BC double cornucopia, maybe it was an addition to a pre formed hoard which consists of Thompson old catalogue coins from 164/3 BC 139/8 BC. They are all well worn. The 140's example's of mine also look to be hastily struck as if for an emergency...what was the emergency in the 140's......maybe a little Macedonian problem and league problem that ended with some city razing! Corinth must be destroyed!

This is my list. The Coins c 99 BC to Sulla's siege maybe are not right, we don't know...I'm still actively pursuing any leads. Lorber, Meadows thinks that the early coin sequence and dating is correct at least to #22 as in Gaziantep Hoard. The lower dating is almost certainly right and I wish all other dating schemes would disappear! I was lucky when I started collecting hoards appeared on ebay and prices were good. As with the CNG example Thompson#'3 above Obv 8, there is a lot of variation in the early coinage as with the Bakhos being retained and the monogram being dropped...only to re-appear on the 2 serpents type! The same phanias? 1 164/3 No Symbol 2 Monograms 3 3 2 163/2 Kerchnos & Bakchos 2 Monograms 3 4 3 162/1 No Sign 2 Monograms 3 3 4 161/0 No Sign or Cornucopiae 2 Monograms 4 5 5 160/9 2 Palms 2 Monograms 1 2 6 159/8 Club 2 Monograms 7 7 7 158/7 Rudder 2 Monograms . 6 7~ 8 8 157/6 Nike 2 Monograms 7 8 9 156/5 Trophy 2 monograms 13 13 10 155/4 Ear of Grain 2 monograms 6 7 11 154/3 Caps of Dioscouri 2 monograms 9 10 12 153/2 Cicada 2 monograms Start of 1st controls 10 12 13 152/1 Two Serpents 2 monograms N 12 16 14 151/0 Term of Hermes 2 Monograms 7 7 15 150/9 Kernos AMMO - DIO Start of 2nd control not both or neither 8 9 16 149/8 Palm Leaf behind Owl POLU-TimX 1st control in field & 2nd on amphora together 10 11~12 17 148/7 Cornucopiae AMMO - DIO 2nd controls only 12 14 18 147/6 Trident Head ADEI - ELIO 2nd controls only 9 10 19 146/5 Cock with Palm XAPI - ERA 2nd controls only 9 10~12 20 145/4 Forepart of Bridled Horse Monogram--LUSIA 1st control on amphora 2nd in field/under 12 14~16 21 144/3 Thyrsos 2 Monograms 14 17 22 143/2 Apollo DIOPHA - DIODO Reverse 18 20 23 142/1 Macedonian Helmet & Star DEME - IERO overstrike 19 19 24 141/0 Eagle 2 Monograms 17 17 25 140/9 Nike holding Wreath note 2a KTESI - EUMA Order change from Thompson N 21 21 26 139/8 Aplustre note 2b 2 monograms Order change from Thompson 19 19 27 138/7 Helios Bust GLAU - ECHE N 20 20 28 137/6 Nike driving Quadriga MIKI - THEOPHRA 10 11 29 136/5 Lionskin Club & Bowcase HERE - ARISTOPH 3 magistrtates start here 12 12 30 135/4 Asklepios Snake & Stick MENED - EPIGENO N 9 9 31 134/3 Anchor & Star TIMARCHOU - NIKAGO 9 9 32 133/2 Winged Caduceus POLYCHARM - NIKOG 6 7 33 132/1 Forepart of lion DOROTHE - DIOPH 8 8 34 131/0 Elephant ANTIOCHIOS - NIKOG / KARAICHOS 6 6 35 130/9 Winged Thunderbolt THEOPHRA - SOTAS N 8 8 36 129/8 Dionysus,Thyrsus & Cup DIOGE - POSEI m 7 7 37 128/7 Cornucopia & Grain Stalk ACHAIOS - ELI m 8 8 38 127/6 Cicada LUSAN - GLAUKOS m 11 12 39 126/5 Eagle on Thunderbolt EPIGENE - SOSANDROS m 11 11 40 125/4 Tripod POLEMON - ALKETES m 18 18 41 124/3 Prow of Ship KARAICH - ERGOKLE m 18 19 42 123/2 Discouri POLEMON-ALKIDEM m 16 17 43 122/1 Nike APHRODISI - APOLECHI m 11 11 44 121/0 Three Graces EURYKLEI - ARIARA m N 16 16 45 120/9 Double Cornocopia APHRODIS - DIOGE 12 12 46 119/8 Helios in Quadriga DIONYSI - DIONYSI 25 25 47 118/7 2 Torches AMMONIOS - KALLIAS 15 15 48 117/6 Trophy on Prow THEOMISTO - THEOPOMITOS 14 14 49 116/5 Apollo Delios SOKRATES - DIONYSODO 15 15 50 115/4 Bunch of Grapes METRODOROS -MILTIADES / DEMOSTHEN 16 16 51 114/3 No Symbol DIOTIMOS - MAGAS 17 17 52 113/2 Triptolemus in Chariot EUMAREIDES - ALKIDAM / KLEOMEN 16 16 53 112/1 Demeter & 2 Torches CHARINAUTES - ARISTEAS 10 10 54 111/0 Artemis with Torch PHANOKLES - APOLLONIOS 13 13 55a 110/9 Artemis with Fawn EUBOYLIDES - AGATHOKLE Both in 13 55b 110/9 Bee ZOILOS - EUANDROS one year 13 56 109/8 Quiver & Bow DAMON - SOSIKRATES 12 12 57 108/7 Tyche EUMELOS - KALLIPHON* 16 16 58 107/6 Winged Tyche & Amphora A HERAKLEIDES - EUKLES 1 10 10 59 106/5 No Symbol THEODOTOS - KLEOPHANES 17 17 60 105/4 Winged Tyche & Amphora B HERAKLEIDES - EUKLES 2 N 22 22 61 104/3 Dionysus & Demeter ANDREAS - CHARINAUTES 12 12 62 103/2 Wreath IKESIOS - ASKLEPIADES 11 11 63 102/1 Dionysus Mask & Thyrsus TIMOSTRATOS - POSES N 14 14 64 101/0 Ears of Grain AMPHIKRATES - EPISTRATOS 15 15 65 100/9 Tyche Staff & Cornocopia DOSITHEOS - CHARIAS N** 29 29 66 99/8 Gorgon Head +++ NIKETES - DIONYSUS M 33 33 67 98/7 Pegasos +++ ARISTION - PHILON M 30 31 68 97/6 Caps of Dioscouri +++ DEMETRIOS - AGATHIPPOS N * 47 47 69 96/5 Winged Agon AROPOS - MNASAGO ? 25 25 70 95/4 Coiled Snake XENOCLES - HARMOXENOS (l) 2 Magistrates R 19 20 71 94/3 Hermes / No sign NIKOGENES - KALLIMACHOS 2 & 3 Magistrates 17 17 72 93/2 Headdress of Isis DEMEAS - HERMOKLES 3 Magistrates N R 17 18 73 92/1 Dolphin & Trident XENOCLES- HARMOXENOS (ll) 2 Magistrates R 42 42 74 91/0 Kerchnos note 1 MNASEAS - NESTOR 2 Magistrates R 10 10 75 90/9 Roma XENOCLES - HARMOXENOS (lll) 2 Magistrates R 14 14 76 89/8 Roma & Nike KOINTOS - KLEAS 3 Magistrates R 7 7 77 88/7 Griffin APELLIKON - GORGIAS 3 Magistrates M 12 12 78 87/6 Star & 2 Crescents note 4 KING MITHRADATES- ARISTION 2 Magistrates from now M 3 4 79 86/5 2 Ears of Corn KOINTOS - CHARMOST * Imitation Restored* 2 2 80 85/4 Beatyl with Fillets KLEOPHANES - EPITHETES N NO Z 7 7 81 84/3 Harmodios & Aristogeiton MENTOR - MOSCHION 8 8 82 83/2 Isis ARCHITIMOS - DEMETRI 7 7 83 82/1 Poppy Head ** LUSANDROS - OINOPHILOS 6 6 84 81/0 Demeter Single Torch ** AMPHIAS - OINOPHILOS 10 10 85 80/9 Ares ? ** EUMELOS - THEOXENIDES 8 8 86 79/8 Stag ** NESTOR - MNSEAS N 17 17 87 78/7 Bakchos ** SOTADES - THEMISTOKLES 6 6 88 ?? Demeter & Artemis ** LYKIOS - ANTIKRATHES 1 1 89 ?? Herekles ** PANTAKLES - DEMETRIOS 2 2 90 ?? Looped Fillet ** THEOTHRASTOS - THEMISTO 1 1 91 ?? Sphinx ** DIOPHANTOS - AISCHINES 1 1 92 ?? Isis ** DEMEAS - KALLIKRATIDES 2 2 93 ?? Apollo with Lyre note 3 MNASTORGORAS - MENTOR 0 1 94 ?? Helmet ALKETE - EYAPON 2 2 95 ?? Dionysus DIONYSIOS - MNASTAGORAS 1 1 96 ?? Apollo Lykeios EPIGENES - XENON 4 4 97 ?? Demeter MENEDEMOS - TIMOKRATES 4 4 98 ?? Hekate MENNEAS - ERODES 1 1 99 ?? Winged Caduceus DIONYSIOS - DEMOSTRATOS 1 1 100 ?? Cicada No tetradrachms known (Democharcs-Pammenes) 0 0 101 ?? Asklepios DIOKLES - LEONIDES 1 1 102 ?? Dionysus PHILOKRATHES - ERODES 1 1 103 ?? Triptolemus KALLIMAXOS - EPIKRATES 2 2 104 ?? Filleted Thyrsos ARCHITIMOS - PAMMENES 4 4 105 ?? Hygieia DIOKLES - TODEY - MEDIOS 3 3 106 ?? Demeter APELLIKON - ARISTOTELES 1 1 107 ?? Head of Eagle note 5 HERAKLON - ERAKLEIDES 1 1 108 ?? Hekate TRYPHON - POLUCHARMOS 1 1 109 ?? Nike PHILOKRATHES - KALLIPHON 3 3 110 ?? Dionysos TO TRI DIOKLES - DIODOROS 2 2 111 ?? Athena Parthenos DIOKLES - MEDIOS 1 1 112 53/42 BC? Artemis END of NEW STYLE COINAGE ?? APOLECHIS - LYSANDROS 1 1 Note 1 Here because of Morkholm " The beginning of Athenian New Style silver coinage" ANSMN 29 1984 Note 2a, 2b Order change : H. B.Mattingly " Some Third magistrates in the Athenian New Style silver coinage" J Hell Stud 1971 Note 3 Hierpetyna Hoard- New tetradrachm " The Hierapytna Hoard - A Supplement" Revue Belge de Numasmatique 1975 O.Carramessini- Oeconomides & Fred Kleiner. Habicht 1994 does not have this coin in his list- a fatal weakness? m Sequence from :Meadows " "Thasos" / New Style Hoard" in Coin Hoards 9 *** Sequence from Morkholm " The beginning of Athenian New Style silver coinage" ANSMN 29 1984 +++ Sequence from "Review of LGPN 2" H.B. Mattingly NC 1997 Thompson knew 110 issues NOW 113, consisting of the Star & Crescent King Mithradates " special issue", restoration of the KOINTOS "imitation" and the NEW MNESTAGORAS- MENTOR SEATED APOLLO with LYRE from the Hierapytna hoard. Does the Slave Revolt / No Coinage year actually add a year or even exist? The V large issue of Caps of Dioscuri .issue 69 has been stated to be a correction for a no issue or a very low previous issue due to the Slave revolt at Laurion. There is no room or evidence for a very low issue previous. note 4 Morkholm has King Mithradates as issue 78 because Fawn / Bee given 1 issue number since BOTH only in one year N* New intercalary : MacDonald, D * A new Athenian intercalary tetradrachm" SM 192 1999 ** Habicht, Ch " zu den munzmagistraten der Silberpragung des Neuen Stils" Chiron 1991 Habicht does not include the APOLLO with LYRE. NEW COIN and just basically follows Thompson each descending year down to 54/3 BC. Not defensible really because of so few coins and likely new finds. So stopped at Backhos. note 5 A die link, but not absolute positioning from the "Hierpetyna Hoard- New tetradrachm " The Hierapytna Hoard - A Supplement" Revue Belge de Numasmatique 1975 O.Carramessini- Oeconomides & Fred Kleiner. Note 6 Doubt cast on the meaning of control letters due to “The Agrinion Hoard”, Thompson, M., ANS 1968 N** Coin Hoards 1 RNS 1975

An interesting recent sale see my little complaint in this General category price inflation, collecting , interesting coin and cataloging etc......its got it all! by me,NewStyleKing

Here's Helios, looking very much like a depiction of Jesus

Recently sold by CNG was this specimen of Thompson number #3 from c 162 BC. Thompson #2 , second coin below has 2 symbols on the reverse, a kernos and bakhos , the Thompson #3 is generally a no symbol type but a bakhos still exists at the bottom of this coin prompting Thompson to place this coin at the beginning of her catalogue for Thompson #3. The other interesting thing as shown in my "standard" type Thompson #3 is that the second magistrate is spelled out Phani whilst the CNG specimen is a monogram version. The coin sold way above my modest bid for $1600 plus juice and I wonder what type of buyer was it...a new previously unrecognised expert on NewStyles or just an investor type. The coin is not usually in the condition for an investor, but who knows! At $1600 + is an example of the inflation of ancient coin prices that have essentially forced me off the market! I have paid more for special coins, 2 Palms, the only example in private hands in very good condition from Roma and Demeter & Artemis from the Selton collection , one of only 3 known and a late newStyle also in really good condition...so hopefully the guy who bought is a new collector with deep pockets. Where do all these coins go to? In some dark drawer along with a Eid Mar aureus or two? Enjoy John aka NewStyleKing

Unpublished is not referenced, by any means anywhere..by my reckoning! Although you can be forgiven for really obscure publications...eg Gregor Mendel and his peas ! ( the Monk who discovered mendelian inheritance who published in obscure Czech language papers references only noticed some decades later.)

No problems! I have no doubt it's real. It maybe ( I don't really know, my expertise is the Athens NewStyle), maybe posthumous. But looks official to me! Look up celtic, Danubian celts for the imitations produced by them of Phillip the ll coins! Numismatik Neuman I have bought from with no problems...would do again!

of, course I only meant a CONTEMPORARY imitation, some imitations are better than others. Often those imitations are so bad that it can only be the weight of silver that is important and the person who made and passed them! There are peop[le out there, not me, who know this and are learned on it , but unlike me they keep such things close to their chest! Beauty without knowledge is the acne of coin collecting. Anyone like come over the parapet and admit when looking at coins...say, the 20 Phillips, they thought either someone had a boring collection of coins or that this is a find! There is very little to learn from a collection of 20 phillips...except where they were found, and what with........... but let's dream on! I wonder if the wonder of metal detecting played a part!...... I see a connection with R Beale, only some people are fanatical about provenance and will pay millions for a provenanced coin, and he knew that, we on lesser ans less famous coins cannot be bothered, just from a UK collection will do fine...as in my collection. The only case I know is a Andrew.... who started getting rid of his Roman republicans and getting provenanced coins in their stead. But he moved in greater circles than I and obviously could afford to do so! Admit it folks, coins are smuggled, illegally dug....BUT if I can learn anything of them I will look, speculate and publish..........many collectors only collect in a smug self satisfying pointless way, just like Museo Archaeolgica Chieti with it's portion of the Poggio Picenze Hoard IGCH 2056..what's the difference! If the NewStyles were in my hands, I would have done the work by now and published them....for free! So it makes Chieti a partner in numismatical ignorance and crime! Good ol Richard Beale, at least the Gold Eid Mar got published after lots of good research! So is anyone going to try and chase the modern history of the Phillip ll tets?

I am for knowledge over beauty! To my knowledge, Phillip ll coins are found frequently in the Balkans..eg Bulgaria. There are lots of imitations that ,like the Thasos coins, degenerate in beauty! Masses have been sold fairly recently. This would premise that they became a coinage produced for mercenaries. The NewStyle did too, Aesillias coinage too! I wish somebody could find a review of coins produced as payment for mercenaries on behalf of the Roman state , ( and others!?). Of, course this brings up the fact that theses specimens have been recently SMUGGLED, despite the many objectors to this plainly obvious fact! So there is a little of Richard Beale in all of us!

Tell us about these coins? When produced, what are the pointers. Where was they used, what for....... Eg. Posthumous , balkan celtic tribes, the non- Attic weight......

I think that some places for test cuts are naturally easier than others..ie where the chisel sits comfortably. Some people might have ben bothered by the desecration others not. I have seen a few test cut NewStyles, often the ones that ended up in celtic regions!

But finding antiquities accidently or otherwise is bad news. I talked to a Bulgarian trader who I was bargaining with and he told me "bad news for you if you get caught with it"! Turkey the same......Egypt too! Italy too!..............Syria, Iran ( think of all those sassanid and Parthian cons littering e bay) lebanon and palestine...I guess the laws don't get too often prosecuted! Certainly the UK is easier to navigate, but Nighthawking is common! Just use your eyes!

Didn't the Romans sacrifice dogs when reviewing troops? ( Iranians today sacrifice animals on reviewing troops)They also swore oaths over pig sacrifices and the Sumerians bound oaths on the sacrifice of a foal of a donkey! Frenzied Greek females sacrificed piglets on a rare day out..the Thesmophoria? Indeed animals got it in the neck and still do!

Look folks, most of the coins you see for sale have been dug up illegally using metal detectors. Don't stress about it! I'm a Rich Beale supporter, ( he always had good auctions with great coins),. I always thought the provenance was BS though! I hope Roma survives.

The biggest Newstyle I've seen is 40mm, the largest I've got is 36mm. They start off large and get larger in the 140's but settle down to c 32mm by the 130's, generally shrinking to 29mm. The largest I got 36mm Club, somewhat doubled on the obverse c159/8 BC