NewStyleKing

Nicking /looting cultural items has always been popular...didn't the Persians half-inch the statue of the Tyrant Slayers from Athens c 480 BC etc.... a very popular hero napoleon Buonaparte was keen on that sort of stuff and when we Brits decided we wanted stuff we nicked the nicked off them. Who actually was in charge of the Parthenon is a moot question ...cos the repair bill is enormous and they didn't have a gunpowder storage certificate too!

Compared to the Old style, the NewStyle are comparatively test cut free. The shear number of old styles produced and from different mints...imitatives from Egypt..necessitated much more care when getting an owl.

On 3/18/2023 at 12:48 PM, CPK said: Very nice! Every collection needs a classic Owl. 🙂 or 54 of them! ( as in NewStyles )

An infamous RN mutiny took place on HMS Hermione in 1797. The bonkers captain and many officers were chucked overboard and the ship sailed into a Spanish port. The RN cut her out and renamed her Retribution in 1799. There were , of course some executions.

I wonder when Rich Beale will be a sought after provenance?

Someone has taken a bite out of Isis. May the goddess fire thunderbolts at them! Athens New Style Tetradrachm c 83/2 BC Obs : Athena Parthenos right in tri-form helmet 29 mm 16.82 gm Thompson issue 82 Thompson catalogue:ll69a Rev : ΑΘΕ ethnic Owl standing on overturned panathenaic amphora on which month mark Θ control ΔI below 2 magistrates : ARCHITIMOS DEMETRI RF symbol : Isis wearing kantharos and holding rattle All surrounded by an olive wreath

I don't think they are Stephanophore's...but I think it's an oak wreath..I have never read of them being in the Wreathed list! I wish someone would find the list! The Tauro poulos? macedonian coins are terrific. Oak wreaths from Numiswiki

https://www.academia.edu/36887680/Elmalı_Definesi_The_Elmali_Hoard = The Dekadrachm hoard. The shenanigans associated with the smuggling of this hoard are still obscure. A very famous numismatist was "associated" with the hoard ending up in the USA. The details of the fake provenances provided I do not know. People do not appear to be interested in that and the faking of Dekadrachms that appeared for sale. This makes the Rich Beale story have a sort of context. This one appeared in CNG but was deemed a fake by clive Stannard, ( as far as I know)..... https://www.academia.edu/1442963/Dies_hubs_forgeries_and_the_Athenian_decadrachm https://plone.unige.ch/art-adr/cases-affaires/elmali-hoard-2013-turkey-and-oks-partners#:~:text=coins to Turkey.-,The coins were part of the Elmali Hoard%2C a precious,litigation in the United States.

A lovely member of the Stephanophore or wreath bearing family of ,generally tetradrachm sized coinage struck mid-2nd century . These coins are proud civic pieces....see the Great Transformation by Andrew Meadows on academia. edu. From absent friends: the Gaziantep Hoard Houghton & Meadows on academia.edu Heracleia ad Latmon. This substantial coinage appears to have been struck from around 30 obverse dies, which makes it as large as or larger than the coinages of Cyzicus, Aegae or Smyrna, all of which are represented in the Gaziantep hoard.30 Taken at face value, this evidence suggests that the issues of Heracleia must post-date the autumn of 143 BC The horse protomes of the Heraklia coins reminds me of...... on this pseudo Athenian Newstyle by marcus Lucullus on this Sullan coinage. Stephanophores are lovely coins but even the common Myrhina and Kyme examples have ballooned in price-shame Athens NewStyles are, of course, stephanophores. And since the start date is c 164 BC, they come at the near beginning of the wreath bearing issues. Anyone like to take up the baton and read up on and write about the wreath bearing issues?

Honestly folks this is most interesting topic and it's not directly about coins! The back scene shenanigans are always more interesting. Crime programmes are always fascinating. I confess ( read my past mentions of the Gold Eid mar) that I always doubted and mocked the "provenance" and this is the same of all the NewStyles I bought,. I always realised the coins were smuggled from the balkans into Germany to be sold by German dealers on ebay and some found their way to London and then to the USA. If one looks at the Star and 2 crescents sold by CNG a few years ago look also at the Roma and Nike NewStyles also sold at the same time! Part of the same hoard, ( and I was told this by someone who knew!). C'mon folks-where do you think they come from? The great gold Bactrian coin now in Paris caused the murder of some of the gang of smugglers ..it all adds to the flavour and adds a gory provenance of it's own! Accidental finds, like the Chieti hoard IGCH 2056 are often of no interest to the professionals and one day will probably get stolen and end up "on the market, like the museums in eastern europe whose coin collections were plundered by the curators! And is the Eid mar genuine? Maybe the bone fides of the coin need to be investigated again......who found it and how? What a lucky seemingly individual find? Where? When, who by? Is it likely to have been solitary? Another smuggled set of coins was also seized by the US...the DEKADRACHM HOARD! After passing thro a few hands ( and noted numismatists!), these coins were too obvious and Turkey claimed them and was eventually "re-patriated " to a miserable museum in Antalya? un published I believed after over a decade or 2 or 3!! That's the way! Do you know about this, I doubt if any of you do cos no one mentions it!! (except me). Stop being lawyers, its the shenanigans that's interesting and how repatriation does nothing to the study of coins. The Gaziantep hoard where smuggled parts of the same hoard London Beirut, USA + some seized in Turkey were "assembled" from Dealers recollections and a few polaroids ( Dealers= penultimate smugglers) into a useful understanding of the coin hoards contents. Only a few CT's have read the paper Gaziantep hoard academia.edu....... I wonder where your coins and antiques truly came from and just because they might have provenance from the 1920's and before, where does the air-brushing of history and smuggling stop!!! I am an unashamed, eyes wide open cowboy...cast ye the first stone folks!

I was once "praised" by Mr Barford when a dealer or two was outed for selling coins of dubious origins! I publicly stated, "oh no! That's where most of my Athens New Style tetradrachms came from!" Yep Paul wasn't amused. My other favourite dealer was Numismatik Lanz's e bay sales of c 10 years back where obvious smuggled Balken hoards where put up for sale.( to be fare he wasn't the only one and some major auction houses sold me their booty too!) luckily I could afford them then! But NewStyle hoards from the balkans have gone thin...all dug out? Thank you Mr Lanz. And thank you Roma's Mr Beale . And a big, big thank you to Mr NewStyleKing who purchased them, noted the seller, wrote about the coins and published the coins. Yah boo sucks to the professionals at the Museo Archaeolgica Chieti for doing nothing after 70 years....it's a pity all the coins weren't sold into trade instead of just lying there ignored! Below some of Mr Lanz's booty from the "good ol' days!" Except for the last two, can you see the tell-tale marks that show they are from the same hoard!

No other examples on Coinarchives. From a UK private collection. The 4th one only known, after the ANS, Kilikis Macedonia Hoard and the Demetrios l Hoard, Turkey. I wonder who was the UK private collector expert in Athens New Style? I thought it was Andrew Meadows and then me! Again, as with the Gold Eid Mar I was a little suspect of the provenance...where had such a rarity been hiding..otherwise it goes with what I have always said that collectors are often not interested in the coins themselves but a secret squirrel type of one-up man ship, pointlessly self satisfying, only one step up from the Museo Archaeolgica Chieti. Shall I contact the DA? Will I get a free holiday in NYNY..." # it's a hell of a place" I am led to understand.

I always mocked provenance ...it seems i was right! Best accidental prov.....Marc & Lottie Salton. But they never revealed where they got it from !!! Maybe an unknown Roma auction way back in the 1950's hahaha

I always doubted the Eid mar's provenance, I just didn't see how the "most famous ancient coin in the world" could be essentially lying in an obscure collection, unknown to the small coin world. I was not bothered by the doubt only amused. How do you find a singular coin? How would you know where to dig? The mint site of the Eid Mar is unknown. Just a lucky find?

As the true and undoubted heir of Brutus I claim the repatriation rights that is my due. I hereby register my interest.

Oh Dear Roma is my number one favourite auction house. I have bought rare coins from Roma and disposed of coins through them. The handling of coins when surrendered to museums is a big bug bear. In 1954 a hoard was dug up in Abruzzi, I think a falling out amongst the finders/looters took place and they were arrested by the carabinari . Meanwhile part of the hoard was sold on the international market and some ended up at the ANS The confiscated part ended up in the Museo Archaeolgica Chieti. It has been essentially unstudied by the museum for 70 years. (SEVENTY YEARS). I believe it was part of an exhibition just a few years ago by Campanella but cannot find anything about it since the internet doesn't work in the Abruzzi region of Italy. Needless to say what little has been published on the Chieti part has been done by non-Italians. The hoard once called the Abruzzo hoard was renamed as the Poggio Picenze IGCH 2056 hoard. It is/was a mixed hoard thought to be the lootings and pay of a Roman soldier who had fought in the first Mithradatic war and buried it for safety whilst still in Sulla's command in Italy where, presumably his luck ran out. The hoard supposedly had c 200 denarii, Pontic coins of Eupator, Bithynian tets, Cappadocian coins, Achaean league triobols, pseudo-Athenian New Styles and and Athens New Styles. I offered the museum my services to classify and publish the New Styles, from photographs, but after tying it all up in numerous paperwork which lead nowhere , I was handed onto 2 persons, whose e-mail addresses proved non-existent! What is the point? If the coins by some means or other ended up with a good auction house I'm sure they would get even the simplest of write ups that do not exist from the museum professionals. My main target is the 2 Ears of Grain example. I know it's there , I can almost see it on the one and only photograph I have found, so near and so far. And that's it. And I think it will remain that way until the sun waxes and life becomes extinct! The large photo I think is from the exhibition...( anyone know anything of it?), the blow up from the picture I think is the object of my desires. If anyone could liberate it and sell it to me my scruples would vanish for a good cause. Is there anything good to say about this situation? Long live dealers!

A big loss of the consignee! It just sold for $350......less than he bought it for +juice, then the cost of its coffin plus fee.!

But generally look at the rarities? Specifically the Eumenes ll portrait, and fab reverse-the history!

I think ROMA is the best...look at the rarities ! I have, though only bought 2 NewStyles from them!

What were the 4 Greeks and 3 Romans?

C'mon somebody..add to the mix! Anybody an expert on Dekadrachm old style owls? Tenedos tet dating?

Look at the latest from Roma! Some fantastic Greek rarities with lots of quotidian banal Old Style Athens including one of the Dekadrachm obverse rarity...never heard of that before! Some lovely Tenedos tets, It seems the dating is still widespread. The Eumenes ll portrait tet is a cracker and the Dioscuri on the reversei are just fab. The 2 NewStyles, though nice examples, are a bit boring and my example of facing head of Helios is just as good, if not better! ( Mine looks like Jesus!) Enjoy! Athens New Style Tetradrachm c 138/7 BC os : Athena Parthenos right in tri-form helmet 33mm 16.87gm Thompson issue 27 Thompson catalogue : 288a Rev : ΑΘΕ ethnic Owl standing on overturned panathenaic amphora on which month mark Α control ΗΡ in LF LF - ΓΛΑΥ RF - ΕΧΕ 2 magistrates RF symbol : Radiate facing bust of Helios All within a surrounding olive wreath

Now $350 !

That's a fine New Style. The first time that 3 magistrates feature on the reverse. MINE; Athens New Style Tetradrachm c136/5 BC Obs: Athena Parthenos right in tri-form helmet 16.81 g 31.5mm Thompson issue 29 Thompson catalogue: Obs 332: Rev c (not in plates) Rev : ΑΘΕ ethnic Owl standing on overturned panathenaic amphora on which month mark Δ control: ΗΡ below 3 magistrates : HRA ARISTOPH POLYM LF symbol: Bow Club & Lionskin All surrounded by an olive wreath

One must hope they get to reveal the Poggio Picenze Hoard IGCH 2056 in Chieti Museo Archaeolgica sometime after lying ignored by the museum for 70 years!