Post your latest ancient!

[DonnaML]

On 6/26/2022 at 8:42 PM, Praefectus said:

Galatia. Ancyra. Septimius Severus AD 193-211. Ae 30 mm. 15.2 gm. Obv: AVT K A CЄΠT CЄOVHPOC AV, Laureate bust of Septimius right. Rev: MHTPOΠOΛЄΩC  ANKYPAC, Cybele facing left. sitting astride on lion walking right. Not found in the major references.  Apparently unpublished?

That's a fascinating coin, @Praefectus. You should submit it to the Roman Provincial Coinage project, given that Volume V.2, "From Pertinax to Macrinus (AD 193–218): Pontus-Bithynia and Asia," is currently listed as being "in progress." See https://rpc.ashmus.ox.ac.uk/volumes.

The design reminds me of the coins of Septimius Severus and Caracalla depicting Dea Caelestis riding side-saddle on a lion right, sometimes holding a thunderbolt and sometimes a drum in addition to her scepter. Here's my example:

Septimius Severus, AR Denarius 203-204 AD, Rome Mint. Obv. Laureate head right, SEVERVS PIVS AVG / Dea Caelestis in headdress riding side-saddle on lion right, facing right and holding thunderbolt & scepter; below, water gushing from rocks left; INDVLGENTIA AVGG; in exergue: IN CARTH [probable reference to water project in Carthage]. RIC IV-1 266, RSC III 222, Sear RCV II 6285. 18x20 mm., 3.9 g.

Edited June 28, 2022 by DonnaML

[CPK]

Bought for a few reasons: the crisp reverse strike, the beautiful toning, and the provenance to the BCD collection.

 

 

 

[CPK]

Just got done photographing and writing descriptions for a new batch of coins. I'm on a roll tonight!

 

A couple of the "Good Emperors":

 

Another Chinese coin (my oldest yet!):

 

And another interesting one I bought for the history - specifically, for the connection to New Testament characters and events - Aretas IV was the father-in-law of Herod Antipas, and Herod's divorcing Aretas's daughter in order to marry his brother Philip's wife Herodias ultimately led to John the Baptist being beheaded (Matthew 14:3-12):

 

[Praefectus]

Tranquillina, Augusta. AD 241-244, sestertius, Ae 36 mm. 36.3 gm.  Rome. Obv: SABINA TRANQVILLA AVG, diademed and draped bust of Tranquillina right. Rev: CONCORDIA AVGVSTORVM, S C, Gordian and Tranquillina standing facing each other in the act of shaking hands.  Coh. N. 5, Banti 2, R.I.C. IV-3, page 53; 341a (R4). Of the highest rarity. 

[NathanB]

I love this meme supplied by Orange Julius the other day--it captures me at my ideal best very nicely!  In my case, the coin I ordered--a cheap bronze coin, and nothing special--took a very roundabout way here.  Purchased from the UK, it was sent to my old address and remained there, despite mail forwarding.  Nearly one month after its arrival there, I finally managed to get it!  This was a lot of waiting for one little coin! 

And here it is, in a very "quick 'n' dirty" pair of photos:

Seleucus I Nikator, AE 17.9 mm, 5.9 g. Nothing special, but not a bad little coin!  

[Justin Lee]

Wow... It's been almost a year since I got this one from @KenDorney. But it fits very well with my Roman Egypt collection. 

 

Constantius I, as Caesar

293-305 AD, Tetradrachm 

Year 1, Alexandria standing left holding scepter, hand raised. Delta in exergue. 

Emmett 4168

19mm, 7.2g

Edited July 4, 2022 by Justin Lee

[ambr0zie]

I was extremely pleased to receive a phone call from DHL Express courier today.

I bought 3 coins from an auction house I recently found out about. The communication was not 100% perfect and I only realized they already shipped the package a few days after they actually did! And the shipping was the fastest I have ever seen - departed from Italy on Thursday afternoon (17:44) and reached my door on Monday at 9 AM.

Package contains a RR denarius I wanted for a long time as I just love a reverse showing minting tools. A coin about coins!

Also another RR I wanted for a while due to mythological symbols

 

But although the circulation wear level is low, I wasn't happy with my choice because of the bad strike. We can see king Tatius in the alopecia version.

So technically my last coin is one I requested from the auction house (being unsold) - possibly the same version, But I think I like this one more, even if more worn and centering is bad, losing the control mark and the reverse legend.

[ambr0zie]

On 7/3/2022 at 2:18 AM, Praefectus said:

Tranquillina, Augusta. AD 241-244, sestertius, Ae 36 mm. 36.3 gm.  Rome. Obv: SABINA TRANQVILLA AVG, diademed and draped bust of Tranquillina right. Rev: CONCORDIA AVGVSTORVM, S C, Gordian and Tranquillina standing facing each other in the act of shaking hands.  Coh. N. 5, Banti 2, R.I.C. IV-3, page 53; 341a (R4). Of the highest rarity. 

I am not a Tranquillina expert (for obvious reasons, there are not many Tranquillina experts out there) but I don't like this coin at all. I might be wrong. But I would recommend opening a topic about it. I see some red flags on it.

[seth77]

I dont think Amrozie is wrong at all, that looks like it was extremely tooled (read recut) -- btw, looks like this is how it originally looked: https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=9519565 -- and the overall look of the flan and the pic reminds me of the fakes that were (are) sold by Emporium Hamburg.
 

[Prieure de Sion]

2 hours ago, ambr0zie said:

I am not a Tranquillina expert (for obvious reasons, there are not many Tranquillina experts out there) but I don't like this coin at all. I might be wrong. But I would recommend opening a topic about it. I see some red flags on it.

First of all, I am not an expert! Therefore, my words must be taken with a grain of salt in such matters. Secondly - I'm sitting here at the little tablet and I don't see it 100% in detail.

Ok. Is it possible that it is this former coin? The notches at the bottom (obverse) and top (reverse) are identical as far as I can see. If this is the predecessor - the coin was "cleaned". 

 

[ambr0zie]

I might be wrong, I think there is big chance that this is a sestertius that was heavily tooled to transform it into a Tranquillina.

[seth77]

If you look closely -- for instance at the drapery of the dress to the front you can see the tooling lines even in that "uncleaned" state. Which might very well be glued dirt to try to hide the recutting.

[shanxi]

16 minutes ago, ambr0zie said:

I might be wrong, I think there is big chance that this is a sestertius that was heavily tooled to transform it into a Tranquillina.

The hairstyle looks completely wrong, and the first I in Tranquillina is also missing.

Edited July 4, 2022 by shanxi

[seth77]

In fact the more one looks at it the less it looks like anything about it is real: the flan is of the wrong color (so likely a wrong alloy), the weight is greatly off for the period, the lettering font is absurd for this era, all details from any iconographical device are completely wrong, the surface looks like lead. I'm not sure this was a real ancient coin to begin with.

[seth77]

Just seen it on facebook too, check the discussion there also: https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=5179167265470835&set=gm.5336457173107216

[ambr0zie]

Actually the first thing that came in my mind was the font. I also compared it with OCRE examples for Tranquilina sestertii and it was very different. But as I didn't see to many Tranquillina imperial coins  (amd most likely I won't) I wasn't sure if this assumption is correct.

The drapery looks like a very bad case of tooling (if we can call tooling good in any case).

I also compared it with the "uncleaned version" and either I'm imagining things or something is very strange.

 

Check the letters after each TRANQV. Left - "cleaned" - L. Right, "uncleaned" - I. Or the "dirt" obscured the I and cleaning made it a perfect L.

Anyway the name is spelled incorrectly. TRANQVILLINA should be the correct one. Not TRANQVILINA with a single L, not TRANQVLLINA.

 

@seth77 - what is the facebook group name, please? It appears it's a closed group and I need to register but I can't see the name of the group with that link.

Edited July 4, 2022 by ambr0zie

[seth77]

https://www.facebook.com/groups/ancientnumis

[Prieure de Sion]

14 minutes ago, ambr0zie said:

@seth77 - what is the facebook group name, please? It appears it's a closed group and I need to register but I can't see the name of the group with that link.

At the Facebook Posting the Owner write - that he cleaned the coin under microscope self-made...

[Severus Alexander]

I agree with the questioning observations about the “Tranquillina” sestertius (and could add that the style is similar to a couple of Paduans online, i.e. the tooling could be intended to hide that it’s a cast rather than to transform another empress’s coin) but I mostly want to make another point.

I know from personal experience that it can be very uncomfortable to have a coin questioned publicly in an open forum. 🥴 So I’d like to suggest a piece of etiquette for us all to follow here in numisforums: if you have questions about a coin’s authenticity, pm the owner first to see how they’d like to handle it. 

Of course if the coin has been posted and clear evidence emerges that the suspicions are correct, eventually this needs to come out, as a service to the community. But I know I personally would like to have at least a little control over how this happens when it’s my coin. 🥺

I hope that sounds like a good idea to everyone here. Let me know what you think!

[ambr0zie]

I would like to apologize if it was understood that I am blaming the owner. It was not my intention.

He did not post it to be sold or whatever, and probably was under the impression he bought an exceptional coin.

I understand your point of view, but if I post a coin (to be discussed, I don't sell anything) and a colleague or more suspect it's a fake, with arguments, I would be happy (as happy as one could be in this situation anyways) as other collectors might see and learn from this. I am also interested in discussions about forgeries as I don't want to pay anything on a fake.

This is why I consider the practice used by some auction houses when a fake is discovered in an auction - replacing the picture with a red WITHDRAWN - incorrect as at least somebody will see that forgery and might recognize it in another auction if it appears.

One of the reasons I am inactive on another board was that I requested a while ago some info regarding a coin I had. It was a problematic Apollonia Pontica drachm. Where it's difficult to be sure. The coin was immediately considered fake. I was asked (and not politely) to update my details with full name, and home address. I felt extremely unwelcome (I didn't have the slightest intention to sell the coin) and since posting on a forum is a privilege, not a right, I just stopped posting there. (I had the chance to discuss with a specialist from a major auction house eventually who told me that in his opinion the coin is genuine)

Not the case here and I don't think anyone blamed the owner.

Edited July 4, 2022 by ambr0zie

[Severus Alexander]

17 minutes ago, ambr0zie said:

 

I would like to apologize if it was understood that I am blaming the owner. It was not my intention.

 

I don’t think any apology is necessary, @ambr0zie, not at all! 😊 Nobody could perceive you as blaming the owner or doing anything else wrong.  I used to raise questions about authenticity in exactly the same way myself, and I appreciate feedback on my coins.  (I agree about auction houses removing photos of fakes too!  Though of course withdrawing can be for other reasons sometimes.) It’s just that, without any forewarning, there can sometimes be unknown circumstances that make it awkward, or the suspicions can be unfounded but the damage done already, or someone can just feel bad even though they shouldn’t, or lots of other things. Something I discovered along the way.

I’m the one who should apologize for sounding like I’m calling people out.  That’s not at all my feeling or intention.  I just want NF to be the best forum possible and thought this small thing - about which I could easily be wrong - might help us move further in that direction, if it meets general approval, that is. 

(What an awful experience in that forum! Yikes, I can see why you left!)

Edited July 4, 2022 by Severus Alexander

[seth77]

I hope my comments were not perceived as aggressive or rude either. I know I'd upset enough without strangers trying to rub it in my face online.

[Etcherdude]

As a bystander, I’d like to say that this thread is valuable for the knowledge and keen observations on display. It’s a fascinating, educational read for this relative novice.

Edited July 4, 2022 by Etcherdude

[Severus Alexander]

4 hours ago, seth77 said:

I hope my comments were not perceived as aggressive or rude either. I know I'd upset enough without strangers trying to rub it in my face online.

@seth77, I don't think your posts could ever be perceived except as friendly and helpful! 🙂 

Since the cat is out of the bag at this point, I think it's OK to continue posting about this coin.  I found the Facebook thread quite helpful.  Two things struck me in particular (other than Barry Murphy condemning the coin).  First, the only Tranquillina sestertii posted that look right to me are the Paris examples that someone posted on FB:

Given what GIII sestertii look like, that's what Tranquillina sestertii should look like.  Very unlike the OP sestertius.  Those weights are also what they should weigh, with the third example being a heavy outlier.  If the OP coin is truly 36g that's, well...

Second, I thought it was interesting when someone pointed out the portrait actually resembles Severus Alexander.  Having looked at a LOT of portraits of SA 😉 I would agree!  Here's a closeup:

Definitely a strong resemblance!  If it's tooled from another coin one would first assume Orbiana, for example, but I think SA is a distinct possibility.  (The neck is too short for Orbiana, for one thing.)  Here's the Orbiana type, which has the right legend (unusual for a marriage issue):

It does exist for Severus Alexander, RIC 551, but is marked R3 there and "imperfectly described by Mionnet."  Sad if a coin like that was tooled to make this!  Note the Mionnet coin lacks "SC" and so would be a medallion, perhaps explaning the weight.

Overall, though, I think it's more likely that the OP coin is a tooled and smoothed Paduan.  In particular the incorrect lettering style matches some Paduans out there, including this scary lookin' gilded monstrosity:

In any case I don't think there's much doubt remaining. 😞  Bummer, because a Tranquillina sestertius would be sensational!

Edited July 4, 2022 by Severus Alexander

[seth77]

You make some great points, SA, but I am stuck to the color and the relatively soapy-leaden look of the surface and I wonder if this wasn't actually done with a core covered in a lead-based alloy, which would make the surface easier to cut to shape.