Anyone like the new CNG TRITON?

[NewStyleKing]

I must admit I don't think that it is that stunning as previous Tritons, unless I am too habituated after all these years

The hi-lights are a Porus Alexander-Elephant medallion and a Eid Mar (Fouree)  But of the NewStyles...not a chance

To make up for that I offer the choice weapon of the tritons, a trident on a NewStyle

The other remarkable "coin" is this unknown quantity in the Imperial Roman selection. 

"In the years since Professor Buttrey's comments, further research has been done on this coin as well as others of its type. New evidence supports this being a Paduan-era medallion of the 16th-17th century schools in Italy".

 I agree looks wrong to my spidey senses, definitely a Faker!

 For those disappointed there is a CNG e Sale that's new. But again I am disappointed, the usual  swarm of OldStyles is missing and a single, very sad, NewStyle is offered.

Well, no Xmas prezzy for me!

 

What do you like? Anything interesting for you? Are the prices of the Triton offerings too high?  Discuss!

Edited November 30, 2023 by NewStyleKing

[kirispupis]

I believe the Titus is from @PeteB. He has it on his site here. I am not knowledgeable enough of these coins to make any conclusion.

As usual, there are a number of gorgeous coins. The Porus tetradrachm is interesting, though the condition is very poor. I suspect given it's history it will fetch a good amount.

The Nektanebo stater is amazing, though I won't be bidding on it. 🙂

I've been after an Arsakes I example, having lost on three previous examples, but I won't be bidding on theirs since the bid is already way past my budget. 😞

There is one coin that I bid on, but I've never won a single coin at any of the premier auctions. I decided to bid early because at an auction like this if someone with the finances to stalk at these prices wants the coin, I'm not going to win. I'd rather know early than get my hopes up for the live part.

The Alexander of Pherai tet is also gorgeous, though for the price I'm more than happy with my bronze.

Thessaly, Pherai
Alexander (Tyrant), 369-359 BCE
 Æ Chalkous 13mm, 2.43g, 12h
Forepart of bull butting r.
R/ Forepart of horse r.
BCD Thessaly II 708.2; HGC 4, 584

 

[Deinomenid]

I am/get a little surprised when they sell large  numbers  of practically "identical" coins. There must be a strategy behind it I suppose,  but it's not one  I  understand. Eg 6 (!) dekadrachms of Syracuse. I know they aren't particularly  rare but auction  houses  like to pretend they are to get the  6 digits they can often sell for. Or selling three 100 litra gold coins of Dionysios I one after another. 

If I were the seller I'd be concerned.  Which I'm  not so I suppose I should be quiet!

 

[robinjojo]

I just looked over the Greek and World lots, and there were some very impressive examples, all beyond my means, either at the estimate levels or most certainly at the hammer price levels. 

The Syracusan decadrachms, six in all, are impressive, but as observed they do crop up with regularity on the auction circuit.  It would be most gratifying to have one of those impressive coins in hand, but a fixed income, plus the 20% commission both dictate that this will likely not happen.  Just like the Athenian standardized tetradrachms, the supply is constant, and the prices for even halfway decent examples are, for me, nearly stratospheric.

I didn't see any Athenian new style tetradrachms on offer in this go round.  As with other types even new styles with some issues (strike, flan quality, corrosion, etc.) seem to command very high hammer prices, generally speaking.  At the retail level the same applies.

 

[kirispupis]

The weird ones IMHO are the 8 Tigranes tets listed. 

Except for the striking one with a comet tail that has an understandably higher estimate, the rest are fairly similar to other examples that have flooded the market. These seem like better coins for their standard auctions, though I'm sure several/all will be bid up more than they should.

[velarfricative]

6 hours ago, Deinomenid said:

I am/get a little surprised when they sell large  numbers  of practically "identical" coins. There must be a strategy behind it I suppose,  but it's not one  I  understand. Eg 6 (!) dekadrachms of Syracuse. I know they aren't particularly  rare but auction  houses  like to pretend they are to get the  6 digits they can often sell for. Or selling three 100 litra gold coins of Dionysios I one after another. 

If I were the seller I'd be concerned.  Which I'm  not so I suppose I should be quiet!

 

Well, there's only one Triton a year; the consignors probably prefer to sell the coins now rather than wait a year or list in a lesser feature auction.

[robinjojo]

28 minutes ago, kirispupis said:

The weird ones IMHO are the 8 Tigranes tets listed. 

Except for the striking one with a comet tail that has an understandably higher estimate, the rest are fairly similar to other examples that have flooded the market. These seem like better coins for their standard auctions, though I'm sure several/all will be bid up more than they should.

Roma had one of these Tigranes II tetradrachms, with the comet on the obverse, in their Auction XXIX, lot 162.  It had a hammer price of £6,500 plus 22.5% buyer's fee.

Here's a link:

https://www.romanumismatics.com/243-lot-162-kings-of-armenia-tigranes-ii-the-great-ar-tetradrachm?arr=0&auction_id=143&box_filter=0&cat_id=2&department_id=&exclude_keyword=&export_issue=0&gridtype=listview&high_estimate=100000&image_filter=0&keyword=&list_type=list_view&lots_per_page=100&low_estimate=0&month=&page_no=2&paper_filter=0&search_type=&sort_by=lot_number&view=lot_detail&year=

 

 

 

[kirispupis]

40 minutes ago, robinjojo said:

Roma had one of these Tigranes II tetradrachms, with the comet on the obverse, in their Auction XXIX, lot 162.  It had a hammer price of £6,500 plus 22.5% buyer's fee.

Here's a link:

https://www.romanumismatics.com/243-lot-162-kings-of-armenia-tigranes-ii-the-great-ar-tetradrachm?arr=0&auction_id=143&box_filter=0&cat_id=2&department_id=&exclude_keyword=&export_issue=0&gridtype=listview&high_estimate=100000&image_filter=0&keyword=&list_type=list_view&lots_per_page=100&low_estimate=0&month=&page_no=2&paper_filter=0&search_type=&sort_by=lot_number&view=lot_detail&year=

The CNG coin looks to be in better shape. Are the obverse dies the same?

It would be an awesome coin to own, but I suspect the Triton example may go higher than Roma's. It's out of my range, but It would be pretty cool if a member of this forum manages to snag it. A coin like this should be owned by someone who appreciates the history and the astronomical connection.

[panzerman]

I find it a blessing to see six of a kind/ means you have a better chance at winning one. Also/ problem with Triton or any other well known auction house/ its like blood in the water attracting sharks or elite collectors with gobs of $$$$. Obscure auctions are the real gems for exceptional deals. Yesterday on the Varesi Auction site/ most coins that had proxy bids up till actual room event/ sold for existing  "high" bids....which is nice. With CNG/ Heritage/ Stack's/ Kunker auctions/ a bidding frenzy starts once lots are up for hammer/ thus some coins sell for 10x estimate/ which is not great for the wallet.

John

[DonnaML]

10 hours ago, kirispupis said:

I believe the Titus is from @PeteB. He has it on his site here. I am not knowledgeable enough of these coins to make any conclusion.

As usual, there are a number of gorgeous coins. The Porus tetradrachm is interesting, though the condition is very poor. I suspect given it's history it will fetch a good amount.

The Nektanebo stater is amazing, though I won't be bidding on it. 🙂

I've been after an Arsakes I example, having lost on three previous examples, but I won't be bidding on theirs since the bid is already way past my budget. 😞

There is one coin that I bid on, but I've never won a single coin at any of the premier auctions. I decided to bid early because at an auction like this if someone with the finances to stalk at these prices wants the coin, I'm not going to win. I'd rather know early than get my hopes up for the live part.

The Alexander of Pherai tet is also gorgeous, though for the price I'm more than happy with my bronze.

Thessaly, Pherai
Alexander (Tyrant), 369-359 BCE
 Æ Chalkous 13mm, 2.43g, 12h
Forepart of bull butting r.
R/ Forepart of horse r.
BCD Thessaly II 708.2; HGC 4, 584

 

That's definitely @PeteB's specimen. He was so convinced it was genuinely ancient, based on Ted Buttrey's opinion. I do feel bad for him. To go from his own website's $145,000 price for it, to CNG's $1,000 estimate, summarizing recent evaluations which strongly weigh against authenticity and in favor of its being a Renaissance-era fantasy piece (even though CNG itself draws no conclusion) is quite a change. Bidding six or even five figures for it would be quite a gamble for anyone.

[Ocatarinetabellatchitchix]

9 hours ago, DonnaML said:

That's definitely @PeteB's specimen

There was a very interesting debate about this specimen here, from the reply # 15.

https://www.cointalk.com/threads/it-was-a-toss-up.381435/

[TheTrachyEnjoyer]

26 minutes ago, Ocatarinetabellatchitchix said:

There was a very interesting debate about this specimen here, from the reply # 15.

https://www.cointalk.com/threads/it-was-a-toss-up.381435/

Thanks for the link

[NewStyleKing]

Oh Yes, I liked the Nectanebo coin too, Nefer Nubw good gold! I'm sure it'll be as good today as it was yesteryear!

Edited December 1, 2023 by NewStyleKing

[Al Kowsky]

I feel sad for PeterB too 😒. Most of us who have been collecting a long time have been burned after buying a misattributed coin, it's part of the learning process I guess. Why CNG would list the coin "Struck AD 80-81 (or a 16th-17th century fantasy)" on the first photo listing has me baffled too 🤨? There are many impressive coins in this auction including coins of special interest to me, silver & billon Roman provincial tetradrachms 😊. One coin that immediately caught my eye is pictured below, lot 494. This very same coin was pictured in the CNG Calendar for 2023, & was listed in the CNG Triton Auction XXVI, lot 565, where it had an estimate of $1,000. The coin supposedly sold for $6,125 😮!

The current listing doesn't mention that this coin was sold in the last CNG Triton Auction 🤔. The current listing has given the coin an estimate of $2,000. Last year I bid $3,000 for the coin but wasn't willing to go any higher. Last year I had a special interest in the coin because I had another Severus Tet struck from the same obverse die, see the photo comparison below.

I won't bid on lot 494 this year because other coins interest me more 😉.

[DonnaML]

6 hours ago, Ocatarinetabellatchitchix said:

There was a very interesting debate about this specimen here, from the reply # 15.

https://www.cointalk.com/threads/it-was-a-toss-up.381435/

I must be getting old -- I had completely forgotten that I participated in that discussion. It's interesting that some expressed a belief that at least one of the known specimens of the type might be genuine, while the current consensus seems to be that they're all "Paduan"-type imitations.

[ACCLA-Mike]

On 11/30/2023 at 8:42 AM, kirispupis said:

I've been after an Arsakes I example, having lost on three previous examples, but I won't be bidding on theirs since the bid is already way past my budget. 😞

And no provenance provided. ☹️