Roerbakmix Posted September 25, 2023 · Member Share Posted September 25, 2023 (edited) An interesting thread, of my favorite archaeology blog: http://www.thehistoryblog.com/archives/68329 Edited September 25, 2023 by Roerbakmix 12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPK Posted September 25, 2023 · Supporter Share Posted September 25, 2023 Wow! That's quite a coin. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Conduitt Posted September 25, 2023 · Supporter Share Posted September 25, 2023 They seem to have forgotten about the 2023 sale. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewStyleKing Posted September 25, 2023 · Member Share Posted September 25, 2023 (edited) What a strange collection of loot and so many perps got away! I wonder if it's genuine? Maybe it's all waiting for the Baron to give it provenance? It all seems so very strange...who would buy it without provenance anyway, it would be unsaleable ? Maybe it's been looted from a museum in the black sea area? Too many questions too many holes. I bet the other coins were LRB's! Edited September 25, 2023 by NewStyleKing 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deinomenid Posted September 25, 2023 · Supporter Share Posted September 25, 2023 And it now belongs to Greece? Not say Ukraine? Greece is invoking the ancient “finders keepers” rules? “ It more than qualifies as protected cultural patrimony under Greek law and is destined for a museum.” 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benefactor kirispupis Posted September 25, 2023 · Benefactor Benefactor Share Posted September 25, 2023 1 hour ago, Deinomenid said: And it now belongs to Greece? Not say Ukraine? Greece is invoking the ancient “finders keepers” rules? “ It more than qualifies as protected cultural patrimony under Greek law and is destined for a museum.” I was thinking the same thing. Of course it will not be sold. It more than qualifies as protected cultural patrimony under Greek law and is destined for a museum. Right now, all of the artifacts recovered in the raid have been handed over to the Archaeological Museum of Piraeus or to the Numismatic Museum of Athens where they will be studied further and kept safe in preparation for the prosecution of the criminal case. There's no way this belongs to Greece. It should be returned to Ukraine since it's very clear where this coin was minted. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewStyleKing Posted September 25, 2023 · Member Share Posted September 25, 2023 It seems these cultural laws are flexible...a bit of AN-TEAK WON TOO going on.( Geddit) What a load of nonsense. Maybe it's from the BM still secret stocks for bonuses to top staff. It's funny how that has gone quiet...I'll guess we'll get a report in a millennia or two, so don't be too hard on the Greeks. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Conduitt Posted September 25, 2023 · Supporter Share Posted September 25, 2023 5 hours ago, kirispupis said: I was thinking the same thing. Of course it will not be sold. It more than qualifies as protected cultural patrimony under Greek law and is destined for a museum. Right now, all of the artifacts recovered in the raid have been handed over to the Archaeological Museum of Piraeus or to the Numismatic Museum of Athens where they will be studied further and kept safe in preparation for the prosecution of the criminal case. There's no way this belongs to Greece. It should be returned to Ukraine since it's very clear where this coin was minted. Yes for Greece to claim this is Greek, you have to believe the colonialists have the rights to the artifacts. Which shuts down the argument about the Elgin Marbles. 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Anthos Posted September 25, 2023 · Member Share Posted September 25, 2023 I remember the Atocha nonsense. Spain allowed him to spend all those years and all that money to find the wreck and then swooped in to claim the treasure which was originally stolen from the natives of (I think) Peru. ~ Peter 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewStyleKing Posted September 25, 2023 · Member Share Posted September 25, 2023 Yep, the RN used too much gunpowder! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DimitriosL Posted September 25, 2023 · Member Share Posted September 25, 2023 5 hours ago, John Conduitt said: Yes for Greece to claim this is Greek, you have to believe the colonialists have the rights to the artifacts. Which shuts down the argument about the Elgin Marbles. I don't think that's a fair comparison. The colonial powers looted ancient artifacts all over the world in a kind of safari destroying many in the process. The modern greek state didn't go to Ukraine to ''purchase'' the coin from the Russians. Greece found it by chance inside its borders. The coin is part of the wider greek history and heritage. What is Great Britains claim to the parthenon marbles? [Removed by Admin as off-topic] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Conduitt Posted September 25, 2023 · Supporter Share Posted September 25, 2023 (edited) 4 hours ago, DimitriosL said: i dont think thats a fair comparison. The colonial powers looted ancient artifacts all over the world in a kind o safari destroying many in the process. The modern greek state didnt go to ukraine to ''purchase''the coin from the russians. Greece found it by chance inside its borders. The coin is part of the wider greek history and heritage. What is Great Britains claim to the parthenon marbles? [Removed by Admin as off-topic] Perhaps not. But the Greeks found a looted coin. Rather than return it to its country of origin, they kept it, apparently because they'd been the colonial power at the time. It's a way to make up your own rules. The Elgin Marbles, of course, are part of wider world history and heritage. [Removed by Admin as off-topic] Edited September 25, 2023 by Restitutor 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewStyleKing Posted September 25, 2023 · Member Share Posted September 25, 2023 (edited) As I stated, it seems the BM is being mined by the curators and the silence is, as usual, deafening. [Removed by Admin as off-topic] Edited September 25, 2023 by Restitutor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Conduitt Posted September 25, 2023 · Supporter Share Posted September 25, 2023 (edited) 4 hours ago, NewStyleKing said: As I stated, it seems the BM is being mined by the curators and the silence is, as usual, deafening. [Removed by Admin as off-topic] If the government isn't even a democracy like Russia or China, corruption is a moot point. The state can use the law to write their own rules of who gets what. At least it is relevant for the UK and Greece. Edited September 25, 2023 by Restitutor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benefactor DonnaML Posted September 25, 2023 · Benefactor Benefactor Share Posted September 25, 2023 2 hours ago, kirispupis said: I was thinking the same thing. Of course it will not be sold. It more than qualifies as protected cultural patrimony under Greek law and is destined for a museum. Right now, all of the artifacts recovered in the raid have been handed over to the Archaeological Museum of Piraeus or to the Numismatic Museum of Athens where they will be studied further and kept safe in preparation for the prosecution of the criminal case. There's no way this belongs to Greece. It should be returned to Ukraine since it's very clear where this coin was minted. The place of minting has no relevance under the applicable treaties. The location of a find controls. Since the culprits have conveniently disappeared and can't be questioned regarding the coin's origin, that location is Greece. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deinomenid Posted September 25, 2023 · Supporter Share Posted September 25, 2023 6 minutes ago, DonnaML said: The place of minting has no relevance under the applicable treaties. Agreed, but there's no suggestion it was found in Greece. That's just where the criminal gangs were doing taekwondo and trading in war-booty. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benefactor DonnaML Posted September 25, 2023 · Benefactor Benefactor Share Posted September 25, 2023 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Deinomenid said: Agreed, but there's no suggestion it was found in Greece. That's just where the criminal gangs were doing taekwondo and trading in war-booty. See my post. Absent other evidence, it was quite literally "found" in Greece. Who is going to speak up to provide contrary evidence? The criminal gang members who seem to have avoided arrest? The Ukrainian government? It has, I think, more pressing concerns. Edited September 25, 2023 by DonnaML 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rand Posted September 25, 2023 · Supporter Share Posted September 25, 2023 (edited) Apart from the legal considerations, would Greece consider it ethical to take advantage of the situation in Ukraine from where the coin was likely smuggled? Even though it may be tempting to use the turmoil there to possess the high-value coin, this may lead to reputational damages and litigations from Ukraine when it regains control over Crimea and restores the peace. Edited September 26, 2023 by Rand 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewStyleKing Posted September 25, 2023 · Member Share Posted September 25, 2023 (edited) Greece has it and possession is 9 parts of the law! Edited September 25, 2023 by NewStyleKing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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