Do you know the worth of your collection?

[JayAg47]

I have been keeping an excel report of all the numismatic purchases since 2018. One column for what I’ve paid, and another for what it’s worth at current market price. While it’s pretty straightforward for bullions, it’s hard to gauge the value for ancient or even some modern coins. Despite that, looking back I’ve only overpaid for a couple or so ancients to date. 
I know one should not treat ancient coins as investments, but it’s good to know where I’m standing in my hobby financially. 

Edited July 29, 2023 by JayAg47

[Nerosmyfavorite68]

In my case it would be hard to get rid of mostly middling coins.  I do it purely for enjoyment.

[CPK]

I also keep an Excel spreadsheet but I haven't updated it in a long time. I don't think I've done too badly at staying within or below the market.

[kirispupis]

While I'd love to think I was an expert in obtaining incredible coins at a percentage of market value, the more realistic scenario is that they're worth about what I paid for them. In some cases I found great deals and in others I overpaid and they probably cancel each other out.

Therefore, it's possible for me to calculate the worth of my collection because I record what I paid for each coin. However, I've intentionally not converted the currencies in order to make this difficult because I don't really want to know...

Edited July 29, 2023 by kirispupis

[expat]

I have no interest in the worth. I collect for historical knowledge and pure enjoyment. If I can afford it and I like it, I buy it. What it might or might not be worth in the future doesn´t enter my head. After all, I am only a caretaker of these historical pieces, what happens to them after I am gone is for someone else to decide.

[Nerosmyfavorite68]

8 minutes ago, expat said:

I have no interest in the worth. I collect for historical knowledge and pure enjoyment. If I can afford it and I like it, I buy it. What it might or might not be worth in the future doesn´t enter my head. After all, I am only a caretaker of these historical pieces, what happens to them after I am gone is for someone else to decide.

Absolutely!

I don't think I've grossly overpaid very many times, however.  Probably well under 5 coins over a thirty year span.

The vast majority of mine, especially the early ones, are decrepit to middling coins.

[John Conduitt]

Yes, or at least I have the original cost. I'm not going to sell my whole collection but I at least need to know for insurance.

I also know from selling those I don't want that with enough patience I could get more than I spent on almost all of them, and not because I'm great at buying. People always worry about lower value coins but they're the easiest to sell for what they cost you, because they didn't cost a lot in the first place. Higher value coins would be more down to luck as they'd probably go to auction.

[Ryro]

I could do better at keeping track buuuut it's at least worth

😉

[Sol_Invictus]

My collection is all low value coins, so I suspect I would have to sell them to a dealer rather than through an auction. In that case I’d probably be lucky to get a quarter of what I paid for it. Maybe eBay would be better, but I’m doubtful I would have much success there either as I have no eBay reputation. I keep track of how much I have spend on every coin, and know how much total I have spent, but I always consider this to be money spent for good.

[ewomack]

All of my coin purchases, since at least 2015, sit in a spreadsheet. It includes columns for "Date Purchased," "Description," "Cost," "Bought From," "Shipping Cost," "Exchange Rate," "Notes," and the date the coin arrived in my paws. Everything gets converted to US $ and the the cost in original currency (for both the coin and shipping) get placed in the "Notes" column. Any banking fees for converting currency have not made it to the sheet. I should fix that, because that represents another cost of collecting these little discs. I should also start including a specific column for taxes. For the last coin I purchased, which has not yet arrived, I also need to add significant costs for "import duties."

Shipping costs definitely add up. I record and keep those costs as well to see if, when selling, whether I actually recoup everything. The coin's base cost alone doesn't reflect the total expense of the purchase. If I get slapped with more of those surprise import duties, I will have no chance of breaking even on these purchases overall.

So far, when selling, some coins I come out ahead on, but most I come out behind on, so I've seen nothing but net losses. I've had pretty sobering selling experiences. I've had far more luck with other collectibles, including making a small fortune on my childhood Star Wars toys, some limited edition cartoon statues, and sports cards.

As for the spreadsheet, I've only hit the "sum total" on the "cost" column once and I was pretty shocked at what came out of there. It was a sum that I never thought that I would, or could, ever spend on this hobby. It sobered up my buying enthusiasm, for sure. I've since become far more picky.

As for the worth of everything? I have no idea. Values fluctuate, along with the time value of money. No single source really gives a good idea of the value of an item. I think I'll only know my collection's worth when I eventually offer it up for sale. Ultimately, something is only worth what someone will actually pay for it. That would also only represent the worth at the time of sale. The worth will keep changing, fluttering all around, until someone buys/sells again.

Edited July 29, 2023 by ewomack

[Ancient Coin Hunter]

I keep a record of what I paid but unlike @ewomack I kind of have not remembered to include shipping costs, though I do try to factor in buyers' fees into the cost as well. My impression is that consigning is probably better for recoupment than selling an entire collection to a dealer who generally will probably only want to pay, say 40% of face or current market value. Since I have never sold a coin I am fairly in the dark on the whole process, though I get the CNG and Leu "sell" or "consign" your collection notices all the time. It seems that expecting 50% or better appreciation in one's coins over time is probably questionable unless they are EID MAR type coins or a wonderful aureus.

Mostly I collect to add an adjunct pleasure to my studies of ancient history over the years, not for a profit. I suppose within 15-25 years or so I will have to make arrangements for my heirs to liquidate the collection unless I do it beforehand and add the return to my inheritable estate.

Edit: To answer the original question I would say I do not know the current value but only my expenditure. Ballpark somewhere in the high fives to low six figures I would guess.

 

Edited July 29, 2023 by Ancient Coin Hunter

[Salomons Cat]

I own 61 coins and I remember what they costed - I don't even need an excel sheet for that. 
Sometimes, when I really wanted a coin, I certainly overpaid a bit. But I believe that I got most of my coins for a good price and that I could also sell them for the same as I bought them.
When I put a coin on my watchlist on vcoins it often gets sold quite soon. Maybe my taste is quite "ordinary"... That gives me some hope that a few of my coins might also have been on the watchlists of other people.
But as a collector, sometimes you just "need" a coin because it fills an important spot. And then you have to accept that you probably pay too much and couldn't get the investment back.

 

Edited July 29, 2023 by Salomons Cat

[ambr0zie]

I keep a very strict status of my collection, in a spreadsheet. Here is the sample 

I only buy from auctions so after every auction the Total is the price I paid for the invoice - this includes the shipping and auction fees. 

I also create individual Word documents for all the auctions and I have a master Word document with all my coins.

This indicates clearly the price I paid for my coins. I do not intend to sell anything. What I will receive for it - debatable. I like to think I usually have good deals when getting coins (... don't we all...) but I also have in mind that eventually, when I consign my collection, I will need to pay some fees myself. And perhaps the new owner might get a better deal than I did. 

[seth77]

I keep a track of costs in my catalog system and that's it. I used to keep an 'estimate' up until perhaps 10 years ago but I have since given up as the prices on what I collect are all over the place and I have bought Poemenius centenionalii for everything between 15EUR to 200EUR.

[Nerosmyfavorite68]

Actually, I do know the value of my collection.  The comfort and satisfaction of it has been immense.  It's the knowledge of knowing that I did the best I could with the resources I had.

For insurance purposes or if one collects hoity toity type coins, it's worth it to keep track, but for a $50 VG Vespasian Sestertius?  Those type of coins, or decrepit rarities make up a good deal of the early collection period.

However, for the more organized part of my collection, which DonnaML inspired me to do from one of her threads, I do keep track of the post-2008 ones, i.e. the ones which I'd save html copies of purchased coins.  The (pre-postage) cost is one of many fields, mainly done to be informative, not with any expectations of selling.

[akeady]

I record what I spend on Tantalus.   I don't include postage but do include buyer's fee and any other charges like VAT, if I have to pay it.   I've recorded prices for 2083 coins there and have another 224 without any price information - some were gifts, some I don't remember what they cost or where I got them.

I've never sold any coins and don't bother with any current value estimates.

I think I will offload some duplicates in the next year and maybe eventually sell - whether the proceeds will fund a night out or a holiday home somewhere is TBD!

ATB,

Aidan.

[Hrefn]

 I value my collection in @panzerman units.   By my latest calculation, my collection is worth 0.0375 panzerman units, where one panzerman is the worth of panzerman’ s collection.  

Just kidding, and no disrespect to @panzerman.  Please continue showing us your wonderful acquisitions.  

I have kept records of the prices of my purchases, but these records mean less as time goes on.   A few of my earliest are in obsolete currencies like French francs or Austrian schillings.   Even if the name of the currency hasn’t changed, the value of the currencies certainly has.  I’ve purchased coins when gold was $400/oz and silver less than $5.   I have no idea how to figure the theoretical appreciation there, since the dollars in which they are denominated have declined so significantly in value.  If your yardstick is constantly shrinking, measurements taking years apart are not comparable.  

I have a solidus which was sold through Stacks at $45 at one point back in the 1960’s.  Now it might sell for $3000, at a guess.   But the $45 would have purchased about one and a third ounces of gold in 1965.  Three thousand dollars will buy about one and half ounces of gold today.  So the change in price looks like a huge profit, denominated in dollars.  But it is a rather modest appreciation denominated in gold, especially if you consider the holding period was fifty years.  In gold, the appreciation is way less than 1% per year.   

 No government in the world is making any effort to keep the purchasing power of its fiat currency constant.  The careful records we keep are misleading if we lose sight of this fact.  

 

 

[DonnaML]

I could figure out what I've spent on ancient coins over the last six years or so, because I have saved (both as a pdf and in hard copy) every invoice and/or auction description with hammer price and/or retail description with price. But I don't have any idea what the exact total is, because I don't include what I paid in my personal catalog or any spreadsheet. Why? I don't really want to know the precise number -- I think I'd be horrified at the total. I can tell you this: it's a lot!  Probably in the mid-five figures, at least.  I have no illusions that my collection in total is worth materially more than what I paid, and I'm never going to waste my time trying to calculate market value on an ongoing basis. If I ever sell all or any part of my collection of ancient coins (or world coins and medals), I would be overjoyed if I -- or my son after I'm gone -- recoup what I spent.  (Ignoring inflation, of course!) Perhaps my first clue will be when I find out what that Vespasian aureus with the pedigrees to 1938 and 1910 sells for in September in the next CNG feature auction.

Again, I'll be very happy if I recover what I spent. I didn't buy any of my collection as an investment; I bought every coin for the pleasure it gives me. With eye appeal being a major factor.  Whenever I feel guilty for spending so much, I remind myself that I could have spent the same amount on vacations, or automobiles, or expensive clothing, or furniture, or fine china. All of which would be worth essentially zero -- there are few things worth less than old furniture bought new in the last few decades! -- and would have given me far less enjoyment than I've gotten from my collection.

Edited July 29, 2023 by DonnaML

[John Conduitt]

3 hours ago, Sol_Invictus said:

My collection is all low value coins, so I suspect I would have to sell them to a dealer rather than through an auction. In that case I’d probably be lucky to get a quarter of what I paid for it. Maybe eBay would be better, but I’m doubtful I would have much success there either as I have no eBay reputation. I keep track of how much I have spend on every coin, and know how much total I have spent, but I always consider this to be money spent for good.

You don't need eBay reputation to sell coins on eBay. People sell a few coins all the time, and I haven't noticed it getting easier with more reputation. The only problem with low value coins is the effort it takes. If you have 50 coins worth $10 each that's a lot of time photographing, describing, packing and mailing them to recover $500.
 

2 hours ago, ewomack said:

If I get slapped with more of those surprise import duties, I will have no chance of breaking even on these purchases overall.

So far, when selling, some coins I come out ahead on, but most I come out behind on, so I've seen nothing but net losses. I've had pretty sobering selling experiences. I've had far more luck with other collectibles, including making a small fortune on my childhood Star Wars toys, some limited edition cartoon statues, and sports cards.

I don't have any problem recouping hammer prices, commission, delivery, tax, customs charges or anything else on eBay when selling. But I don't try to sell coins immediately or via the auctions. I start with 'buy it now' fairly high and come down. It can take a year or two to sell, or a few hours. (If a few hours, I wonder if I went too cheap!)

I do this because I don't have much idea which coins will be easy to sell at a good profit, or which might have come down in value and not sell. So if I sell a coin at the higher price, I use that 'profit' to discount the coins that don't shift. By always trying to get a good profit on every coin, not just trying to sell at cost, I don't think I'll lose any money, because I'll eventually be able to give away the least saleable coins.

[David Soknacki]

Just an observation. I encourage forum members to keep track of costs, if only as a defence for tax authorities or bankers. If tax authorities or bankers ask about income from other than regular employment, or when your collection passes to your heirs, it might be a very good idea to have records.

[Pellinore]

I keep track of the costs of all my coins - with prices including all taxes and shipping. In my very detailed System, that I kept since 2012, and this also contains my father-in-law's notes of the 1970s (prices were not so different in those days).

But I have no illusions about selling them, that will be very difficult for my heirs, with all those troublesome coins like hardly discernable overstrikes, unique variants, brockages and strange barbarous caricatures, esoteric early Islamic fulus and obscure dynasties, Treadwell dies and hundreds of minimally variant coins readable only for experts in forgotten ancient scripts. They will probably go to an auction house in my country and sell for a tenth of what I paid. (If you want to sign up for a part, let me know!). Probably the knowledge will be lost too...

Gallienus antoninianus trial

Constantinus II brockage overstrike 

One of my ugliest coins, a fourrée Marcus Aurelius aureus from Vinnytsia Oblast, just north of Moldova (Aurum Barbarorum)

Sogdian Tired Horse coin: AE Chach, Kabarna. Obv. Horse trudges to the right under a crescent blue moon with star. Rev. Tamgha nr. 2 (hook flower). 18 mm, 1.86 gr. Shagalov & Kuznetsov 74-76, group 2 nr. 8 (version 1, the heavier variety).

^ This coin is so small, that you'll never retrieve it if it falls on the floor. Iran, Achaemenid Empire. Time of Xerxes II to Artaxerxes II (c.420-375 BC), 1/32 siglos. Obv. Persian king or hero, with quiver over shoulder, in kneeling-running stance right (but his legs are omitted), drawing bow. Rev. Incuse hollow. 4.5 mm, 0.17 gr. Carradice Type IV.

But I'm collecting exclusively for my pleasure, so unless something terrible happens, the coins that I like so much will be staying with me as long as I'm aware of the things around me.

 

Edited July 29, 2023 by Pellinore
Trying to make things a bit more clear

[Ocatarinetabellatchitchix]

For myself, I’ve never kept track of the cost of my purchases; I don’t see the point of doing it.  Collecting coins is a hobby to me. Playing guitar too. And observing the sky through my telescope when I have spare nights. Musical instruments and telescope have this in common: they lost half of their value 6 months after you bought them… Some people would say it’s a waste of money. I answer that my hobbies alloy me to keep my mental balance in this crazy world. And that it cost a lot less in the end than a shrink or a divorce, doesn’t it ? 🤔

[sand]

Like @kirispupis and @DonnaML, I don't want to know, the total amount, that I've spent on coins. Therefore, I've never added it all up. However, perhaps someday I'll add it all up, and that might be fun, because I have screen shots, invoices, etc for each purchase. Since January 2022, I've been writing down each purchase in a text file, and I've added up the total for each month. Since January 2022, I've had a monthly budget, which I've tried not to exceed. However, I'm pretty sure, that I spent a lot of money on coins in 2021. And, I've been collecting ancients and medievals since 2018, therefore I spent money in 2018, 2019, and 2020 also, probably in ever increasing amounts. If I ever add up the grand total, of what I've spent, then I'll probably also add up the grand total, of what I think I could get, if I were to sell it all. That would also be fun, and it might cushion the blow. Then, there's the money I spent on Abafil coin trays and cases. And the money I spent on coin books. And the time I've spent shopping for coins, and learning about coins, and talking about coins. However, it's been a nice hobby, and a fun thing to do, and a social thing to do, and I've learned a lot of history as a result. At the moment, I don't think the grand total that I've spent, is too terrible. I've spent way more, than I thought I would ever spend, when I started collecting ancient and medieval coins in 2018. However, even if I could snap my fingers, and magically get back the money that I spent on any of my coins, or even get the money I think any of them are worth, there are very few of my coins, for which I would want to do that.

[Qcumbor]

Although I know quite accurately what I spent, I have no idea what it's worth, my heirs will. Hopefully it will break even as probably a few of them will have gained enough in value to recoup the loss on many 

Q

[Ursus]

14 hours ago, Pellinore said:

(If you want to sign up for a part, let me know!)

I take this as an invitation. If you or your heirs ever want to part with the holed barbaric imitation of a Marcus Aurelius aureus you have shown, please shoot me a message.

And concerning the question of this thread: No, I don't know the total value of my collection, but I record the price I paid for each coin on my tickets.

Edited July 30, 2023 by Ursus