Received bill for import duties 3 days after a coin was shipped...

[ewomack]

I ordered a coin from MA-Shops that was shipped Jul 10. Today I received a message from DHL that I owe an extra US $46.66 for an import duty on the parcel. If I don't pay it in 5 days they will return it to the sender.

I've ordered from MA-Shops (and other overseas vendors) many times and have never run into this. Have I just been lucky? I didn't see anything about this on the order page (but I admit the possibility that I missed something is greater than 0). Had I known this extra charge was coming I would not have ordered the coin. The import duty is almost half the cost of the coin itself.

I sent a message to the vendor to confirm if the fee was legitimate and, if so, asking if we can just cancel the order. I guess we'll see where this goes.

Any tips on these for the future? Should I have seen this coming? Again, I've been buying coins overseas for years and have never run into this before.

Edited July 13, 2023 by ewomack

[John Conduitt]

Do you pay import duty in the US? In the UK, I always get a bill like this for anything that comes with DHL (or FedEx), and they always calculate the bill incorrectly (too much VAT, perhaps a customs charge that isn't due, and a large fee for getting it wrong).

[kirispupis]

For me, this has occurred every time (which isn't often) when I've been sent a package worth more than $2k.

Note that the $46.66 isn't truly a custom's fee. It's the fee for DHL to take it to customs so customs may say there are no fees.

In terms of avoiding it:

• Buy coins that are less than $2k together OR
• Have the shipper divide the shipment into multiple packages each worth less than $2k (some auction houses do this automatically) OR
• Pay the $46.66

[ewomack]

3 minutes ago, John Conduitt said:

Do you pay import duty in the US? In the UK, I always get a bill like this for anything that comes with DHL (or FedEx), and they always calculate the bill incorrectly (too much VAT, perhaps a customs charge that isn't due, and a large fee for getting it wrong).

No, I paid no import duty in the US. I've also had packages shipped from DHL before, possibly half a dozen times. Interesting.

[ewomack]

1 minute ago, kirispupis said:

For me, this has occurred every time (which isn't often) when I've been sent a package worth more than $2k.

Note that the $46.66 isn't truly a custom's fee. It's the fee for DHL to take it to customs so customs may say there are no fees.

In terms of avoiding it:

• Buy coins that are less than $2k together OR
• Have the shipper divide the shipment into multiple packages each worth less than $2k (some auction houses do this automatically) OR
• Pay the $46.66

Hm. Interesting. The package contains a single coin that cost $127.00. If it had cost $2k+, I would pay the $46.66 with no issue.

Edited July 13, 2023 by ewomack

[kirispupis]

30 minutes ago, ewomack said:

Hm. Interesting. The package contains a single coin that cost $127.00. If it had cost $2k+, I would pay the $46.66 with no issue.

Maybe you're just unlucky? I once had a package under $2k pulled over by customs, but I didn't have to pay an extra fee - just fill out some forms.

[DLTcoins]

Sounds like a "junk fee".

[Deinomenid]

2 hours ago, ewomack said:

Have I just been lucky?

I think so,  or more that you have  just been unlucky here. As you say there is no  federal import duty but DHL randomly assigns  me customs duty blah  blah fees that are for  paperwork not actual duty. They are VERY hard to fight.  In my experience from  Europe including the UK to the USA, Fedex  does this a lot (most of the time) DHL rarely and the Royal Mail (probably not a fair  one to add as it is not a package company) never.

 

 

[Rand]

In the UK, there is a 5% Import VAT on numismatic items (plus £12-14 handling fees), which is fair.

It is annoying when a delivery invoice shows 20%. Paying it is the only option (or the coins are sent back). The refund process from HMRC is robust but requires extra time filling out a form, printing it, and posting it with evidence. My experience of wrong Import VAT added:

Parcelforce: always
FedEx: often
DHL: uncommon

I tried contacting PacelForce once to correct the invoice  - they refused.

[John Conduitt]

1 hour ago, Rand said:

In the UK, there is a 5% Import VAT on numismatic items (plus £12-14 handling fees), which is fair.

It is annoying when a delivery invoice shows 20%. Paying it is the only option (or the coins are sent back). The refund process from HMRC is robust but requires extra time filling out a form, printing it, and posting it with evidence. My experience of wrong Import VAT added:

Parcelforce: always
FedEx: often
DHL: uncommon

I tried contacting PacelForce once to correct the invoice  - they refused.

Interesting - I get completely the opposite. DHL do it every time, even when the paperwork is meticulous. I've spent days on their nightmarish phone system trying to find the one person who understands the problem and can fix it, but who won't give out a direct phone number. But they often pay HMRC too quickly and I have to pay and claim a refund.

Parcelforce (the Royal Mail) hardly ever charge, let alone get the bill wrong.

[Rand]

9 hours ago, John Conduitt said:

Interesting

Interesting. There may be some value thresholds? The pattern was different for lower value items (banknotes, which I sold off later).

DHL has been my firm favourite. 

Parcerlforce - I am dealing with them even today, to get refund for the last MDC sale delivery.

 

PS. I also want to avoid ending up not paying the due Import VAT. If the postage company does not do this, the buyer still has the legal duty to pay (I understand).

The previous low-value banknotes were mainly from eBay, which charged 20% tax during purchase (annoying, but too much hassle to deal with!). Usually, there was no additional tax on delivery. I collected them to fill in the buying urge, but eventually, they became a distractor, with too many of them and gradually slipping to more expensive items.

Edited July 14, 2023 by Rand

[Kazuma78]

Last time this happened to me FedEx sent me a bill after the coin had been delivered. It was not truly an import or customs fee, just a fee that FedEx made up of their own, so I laughed, threw away the bill and moved on with my life. 

 

The time before that, they would not release the coin without the fee so I had to pay what was essentially a "ransom" fee they made up. It was around $40. It was the only way to get my coin at that point. 

Edited July 14, 2023 by Kazuma78

[TheTrachyEnjoyer]

16 hours ago, kirispupis said:

• Buy coins that are less than $2k together OR
• Have the shipper divide the shipment into multiple packages each worth less than $2k (some auction houses do this automatically) OR
• Pay the $46.66

Easiest way to avoid: Dont use DHL 👼

[Deinomenid]

59 minutes ago, Kazuma78 said:

so I laughed, threw away the bill and moved on with my life. 

I did this initially and then they passed it on to a collection agency! Who took great pleasure in harassing  for me  around $42.50.

 

 

[Kazuma78]

55 minutes ago, Deinomenid said:

I did this initially and then they passed it on to a collection agency! Who took great pleasure in harassing  for me  around $42.50.

 

 

Interesting! Well I shall await their call I suppose!

[Harry G]

Obligatory "Are you sure this is the real DHL and not a scam text?"

I've received a ton of spam emails claiming import fees need to be paid

[John Conduitt]

1 hour ago, Harry G said:

Obligatory "Are you sure this is the real DHL and not a scam text?"

I've received a ton of spam emails claiming import fees need to be paid

They quote the shipment number and seller name, as provided by the seller. Then you have to log on to the DHL website to pay. I suppose someone working for DHL or the seller could set up a scam, but it's a lot riskier than simply phishing, and would be unsuccessful if you don't use the link in their email to go to the DHL site.

[John Conduitt]

3 hours ago, TheTrachyEnjoyer said:

Easiest way to avoid: Dont use DHL 👼

I've never asked anyone to send me anything by DHL, but sometimes as the recipient you don't get a choice (or the choice is FedEx).

[John Conduitt]

9 hours ago, Rand said:

PS. I also want to avoid ending up not paying the due Import VAT. If the postage company does not do this, the buyer still has the legal duty to pay (I understand).

The previous low-value banknotes were mainly from eBay, which charged 20% tax during purchase (annoying, but too much hassle to deal with!). Usually, there was no additional tax on delivery. I collected them to fill in the buying urge, but eventually, they became a distractor, with too many of them and gradually slipping to more expensive items.

It would be better if we could pay the VAT ourselves, as we'd get it right and not charge ourselves £11 to process it. Most of the time the VAT would be £2 or £3, which I'd be happy to pay in bulk. As it is, £3 becomes £26, reduced to £14 if I fill out all the paperwork and send it off to HMRC for my refund (plus an additional £1 for the envelope and stamp). And I'd have to do that every shipment. If HMRC want to take 20% from all the people who can't be bothered to go through all that, they can lose 5% every now and then.

eBay also often charge the VAT at 20% instead of 5%, but their claim process is a lot easier. You contact them on chat (so you don't have to stop what you're doing), point out the error (usually because the seller has put it in the wrong category) and you get the money paid into your bank account. The people on eBay chat actually understand the tax system, unlike the people at DHL.

[David Atherton]

20 hours ago, ewomack said:

I ordered a coin from MA-Shops that was shipped Jul 10. Today I received a message from DHL that I owe an extra US $46.66 for an import duty on the parcel. If I don't pay it in 5 days they will return it to the sender.

I've ordered from MA-Shops (and other overseas vendors) many times and have never run into this. Have I just been lucky? I didn't see anything about this on the order page (but I admit the possibility that I missed something is greater than 0). Had I known this extra charge was coming I would not have ordered the coin. The import duty is almost half the cost of the coin itself.

I sent a message to the vendor to confirm if the fee was legitimate and, if so, asking if we can just cancel the order. I guess we'll see where this goes.

Any tips on these for the future? Should I have seen this coming? Again, I've been buying coins overseas for years and have never run into this before.

Is this DHL Express or DHL Parcel? Express is delivered by the yellow DHL trucks, Parcel is delivered by USPS.

I've never had either one charge such a fee. As a matter of fact, I just received an expensive DHL parcel package ... and no fees.

[Ancient Coin Hunter]

DHL usually (for me) does this, including shipments from Spain and Portugal. It's much better when the local post is used, even if it is expedited service. In my experience the coins cost around $350 each where I had to pay the customs "fee" much less than $2000.

[ewomack]

Thanks for all of the responses. I have not heard back from the vendor yet. I have also not paid the duty yet.

3 hours ago, Harry G said:

Obligatory "Are you sure this is the real DHL and not a scam text?"

I've received a ton of spam emails claiming import fees need to be paid

I'm not 100% sure, but the DHL email looks legitimate (it contains all of my order information and the URL links in the email don't look suspicious), but that's also why I contacted the vendor asking if the charge seems legitimate. And, as mentioned, the vendor chose DHL and I wasn't given a choice.

49 minutes ago, David Atherton said:

Is this DHL Express or DHL Parcel? Express is delivered by the yellow DHL trucks, Parcel is delivered by USPS.

I've never had either one charge such a fee. As a matter of fact, I just received an expensive DHL parcel package ... and no fees.

It is DHL Express, according to the email.

[ewomack]

I received my final DHL warning email today. I still have heard nothing from the vendor.

So... I guess the coin will get sent back. I have no idea what will happen next.

[Nerosmyfavorite68]

What country was the package sent from?

That's a shame that a lot of these firms offer one size fits all shipping.  I had to beg a firm in Germany to send it via the post.

I haven't had the fee problem, however.  DHL's usually pretty expensive, though - around $38-40.  Perhaps the fee is baked in?  I usually only order from the DHL-only dealers in emergency situations.

Savoca's price for the same speed FedEx is around $20-something, quite nice.  I really like them.

[ewomack]

57 minutes ago, Nerosmyfavorite68 said:

What country was the package sent from?

That's a shame that a lot of these firms offer one size fits all shipping.  I had to beg a firm in Germany to send it via the post.

I haven't had the fee problem, however.  DHL's usually pretty expensive, though - around $38-40.  Perhaps the fee is baked in?  I usually only order from the DHL-only dealers in emergency situations.

Savoca's price for the same speed FedEx is around $20-something, quite nice.  I really like them.

On MA-Shops, the dealer shows a location in Austria.

As I said before, I've had other coins shipped from Europe with DHL (I think Germany and France) and this did not happen.

I just looked at the order again and I see the shipping was a whopping $32.57. So, add in the $46.66 duty and the total I would pay for shipping/duties is $79.23. The price of the coin was $110.07. Wow. I'm actually surprised that I accepted that amount of postage. I must have ordered in a weak moment. I have never paid anywhere near that for postage on my MA-Shops history, but times may have changed as well.

Still no response from the dealer. I sent a follow-up message reiterating that I'm not going to pay the duty. I guess I'll see what happens. At least it wasn't a $2k coin.

Edited July 15, 2023 by ewomack