Dafydd Posted December 13, 2022 · Supporter Share Posted December 13, 2022 Could I please ask for help with this coin? A portrait Julius Caesar has been on my bucket list for sometime but I have been thwarted by a multitude of issues including timing and diverting monies to other "must haves". I acquired this one recently and my concerns are about its low weight. It weighs 2.25 g and the diameter is 18.4 mm. It came from a dealer who accepts returns and it was an impulse purchase without viewing. I considered I might be a disgruntled Roman citizen to receive this one as payment! I have checked the Forum fake coin site and cannot find a match. Roman Empire - Julius Caesar with L. Livineius Regulus, moneyer, silver denarius. Minted in Rome, 42 B.C. Wreathed head of Caesar right; laurel branch behind, winged caduceus before./ Bull charging right; L • LIVINEIVS above, REGVLVS below. Crawford 494/24; CRI 115; Sydenham 1106; Kestner 3729-30; BMCRR Rome 4274-6; RSC 27. My thought is that it is a Fourrée , but that is not what it was described as and I have no experience of them . I had a disappointment with this dealer some time ago when I bought a Claudius denarius as part of my 12 Caesars to find it had a pronounced flan split that was not mentioned. The dealer does not have a website and offers money back guarantees although I kept the Claudius because the price reflected the split although it wasn't mentioned. Yes, I know I should have learnt a lesson but the allure of a portrait Julius Caesar at a reasonable price was too good to miss. I have not found this coin as a Fourrée although I am still looking. I would be very grateful for opinions. Fourrée or not, in the hand it is very attractive ( to me ). 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Cazador Posted December 13, 2022 · Member Share Posted December 13, 2022 No bueno 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kali Posted December 13, 2022 · Member Share Posted December 13, 2022 It's a bad fake. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qcumbor Posted December 13, 2022 · Supporter Share Posted December 13, 2022 At first glance I don't like it. At best a fourree : flaking apart all over the place At worst a fake : I don't find the style convincing My answer is : refund please ! Q 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idesofmarch01 Posted December 13, 2022 · Member Share Posted December 13, 2022 53 minutes ago, Dafydd said: It weighs 2.25 g A quick check of ACSEARCH uncovered around 65 Julius Caesar denarii of this type, all of which had weights higher than 3.5g, and many of which had weights over 4.0g. The likelihood that you have a genuine denarius that weighs 2.25g. is, well, pretty much zero. Even if you don't have a paid subscription to ACSEARCH allowing you to view the hammer prices, you can still research the other aspects of coins including normal weights. Doing so before you purchase will save a lot of headache and angst. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPK Posted December 13, 2022 · Supporter Share Posted December 13, 2022 Looks fake to me. Among other problems, the dotted border on the reverse - well within the large flan - is faded away while the 1 o'clock lettering is nice and sharp. But yes, the weight is a dead giveaway and the surfaces look cast to me. Is there a seam around the edge? I'd return it and look for a new dealer if I were you - especially if this coin were sold as genuine! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ominus1 Posted December 13, 2022 · Supporter Share Posted December 13, 2022 ...it screams fake....i concur with the Peeps hence... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roman Collector Posted December 14, 2022 · Patron Share Posted December 14, 2022 Fourree, I think, and the silver coating is coming off of the core around the edges. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DLTcoins Posted December 14, 2022 · Member Share Posted December 14, 2022 It's clearly plated but I can't tell from the photos whether the core is modern grayish pot metal or ancient copper. A modernish 'gift shop' reproduction that has begun to lose it's plating can sometimes resemble an ancient fourrée. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Octavius Posted December 14, 2022 · Supporter Share Posted December 14, 2022 Look at his eyes , or lack thereof; It unfortunately does not look genuine at all to me. I hope you get a refund and put it towards a replacement one day. Remember , there will always be another one. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dafydd Posted December 14, 2022 · Supporter Author Share Posted December 14, 2022 Thanks all, you confirmed my fears , I was convinced but part of me wanted to dream on.......... It's heading back and that is the last time I contemplate having any dealings with that dealer. Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice shame on me! 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shanxi Posted December 14, 2022 · Supporter Share Posted December 14, 2022 (edited) It's also listed in the FAC fake reports (with a replica mark which was obviously removed on your example). This might help getting a refund. https://www.forumancientcoins.com/fakes/displayimage.php?pid=10802 Edited December 14, 2022 by shanxi 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prieure de Sion Posted December 14, 2022 · Member Share Posted December 14, 2022 6 hours ago, Dafydd said: Thanks all, you confirmed my fears , I was convinced but part of me wanted to dream on.......... It's heading back and that is the last time I contemplate having any dealings with that dealer. Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice shame on me! May one ask at what price the dealer sold this Caesar? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romismatist Posted December 14, 2022 · Member Share Posted December 14, 2022 Definitely fake, reverse looks pressed, not struck, fields too flat & even... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dafydd Posted December 17, 2022 · Supporter Author Share Posted December 17, 2022 On 12/14/2022 at 3:25 PM, Prieure de Sion said: May one ask at what price the dealer sold this Caesar? £640 so the equivalent of around 730 Euros or 780 Dollars. Not so inexpensive that you would imagine it could not possibly be real but expensive enough to be considered a bargain backed up with the comment " a reasonable portrait". The dealer does not have a website and advertises low cost rarities. I guess that without access to a forum such as this , many people could have been duped over the years and of course offering a money back guarantee does lend a sense of security. At my age I should knwo better and if it sounds ( or reads) too good to be true then it probably isn't. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prieure de Sion Posted December 17, 2022 · Member Share Posted December 17, 2022 33 minutes ago, Dafydd said: £640 so the equivalent of around 730 Euros or 780 Dollars. Not so inexpensive that you would imagine it could not possibly Sorry … that’s actually for this type too too too cheap. For a 0815 Caesar Elefant Denarius you paid in a ok condition more than 1000 USD. For 1000 USD you get a Caesar Aeneas Denarius. And this two types you find every auction…. Your type - today - it’s not possible for this price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prieure de Sion Posted December 17, 2022 · Member Share Posted December 17, 2022 38 minutes ago, Dafydd said: offering a money back guarantee does lend a sense of security. Many fake dealers do that. The intention is clear - 10 customers buy a fake coin - 5 customers give it back as fake, 5 customers don’t know was a fake and the coin will stay in their collection. The dealer have no risk - he try 10 deals - and 5 deals are a won. With the other 5 coins come back - he will try later with a „business partner“ or new eBay account. There are hundreds of fake sellers - who switch after a time the account with new name - after he get to many bad feedback or to many reclamations. A money back guarantee is NOT something that should make you trust the seller more. This offer from him is well thought out and is part of the plan - but not a service for you as a buyer. Anyway - for subsequent readers and new numismatists. You never buy such a rare Caesar type (or other rare type) on eBay - especially not if the seller has nothing else to show. 😉 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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