A Picture's Worth 1,000 words: Experiments in Digital Coin Presentations

[CPK]

22 minutes ago, Kaleun96 said:

Looking great! I've used extension tubes here and there, mostly for higher magnifications (3x and above). They're a very cheap and effective tool but as you say you lose some depth of field and you also lose a bit of light as your effective aperture increases. I think the hardest thing with extension tubes is changing the magnification, unless you use them on a zoom lens but then usually the useful range of focal lengths for extension tubes is fairly limited anyway (20-60mm or so). If you have a zoom lens with a longer focal length, you might find a close-up adapter like this is more effective than extension tubes.

Extension tubes are a great way of seeing whether it's worth investing in a macro lens or not too, whether for the added convenience or optical quality, or both.

 

Thanks! I'm using a zoom lens, 18-140mm at the 140mm distance...should I be doing something different?

That adapter looks interesting, not something I'd seen before.

I think what I'm going to do next is try to construct some sort of solid, integrated photography setup. Right now I'm using a cheap tripod to hold the camera, with the coin balanced between a couple bright work lamps clamped on various furniture items for support. Needless to say it's a bit haphazard. I'd like to have a setup where everything is held securely in place, is more easily customized, and an accidental bump doesn't send the whole thing into chaos.

[AETHER]

these look amazing, good thread. 

[Kaleun96]

1 hour ago, CPK said:

Thanks! I'm using a zoom lens, 18-140mm at the 140mm distance...should I be doing something different?

That adapter looks interesting, not something I'd seen before.

I think what I'm going to do next is try to construct some sort of solid, integrated photography setup. Right now I'm using a cheap tripod to hold the camera, with the coin balanced between a couple bright work lamps clamped on various furniture items for support. Needless to say it's a bit haphazard. I'd like to have a setup where everything is held securely in place, is more easily customized, and an accidental bump doesn't send the whole thing into chaos.

Yeah from memory extension tubes work best at focal lengths around 75mm or less, while close-up lenses like the one I suggested are better for longer focal lengths. By "work best" I just mean you get more magnification for a given tube length. The trade-off is likely that as you increase the tube length for longer focal lengths, you increase the effective aperture and not only lose light but risk going into diffraction territory (degraded optical performance). The downside of the shorter focal lengths is the decreased working distance, so it's a bit of a balancing act to get everything just right!

Just to add about the close-up adapter I linked, the Raynox DCR-250, they are very highly regarded in the macro community (I have two myself) so they're a great piece of kit to have on hand. But if the extension tubes are working for you, there's no need to rush into buying one or anything. Sometimes they pop up for half price or so on eBay but maybe if you wanted to give it a go first you could buy it on Amazon and always return it if you decided it's superfluous.

[Nerosmyfavorite68]

CPK, can we see the camera poised for action?  The results have been great.  I never would have dreamed that the setup wasn't fancy. The setup is always my bugaboo.

I have an unrestored chairside radio that I used for the record station photography. It would work ok for coin photography.

I have to stick with my camera, the Alpha 77, for budget reasons.  Also, the new cameras haven't really gone up from 24 MP, last time I looked. The a77 still takes nice (non-coin) pictures.

[Qcumbor]

Some great ways for displaying coins folks.

Since I'm not an artist in any way, and not creative at all, I've always taken the black background route, and am always happy with it, as long as my black is really black

 

 

Q

Edited July 27, 2023 by Qcumbor

[Limes]

Interesting and insightful thread @CPK, thanks! And some good photos, too. Although quite a few members adhere to the no-background, or black background, way of life, I've always enjoyed adding some digital make up to my coin photos. And I really like your digital set up, and it goes without saying that @LONGINUS is the king when it comes to that 🙂

I'm also interested in your DIY home set up. I've always struggled with good lighting, and have given up, only taking photo's in daylight now. But taking photos in the evening is more convenient. I've tried using a lightbox, creating my own set up with wood, and using different lamps, but I just can't figure out what makes good lighting. It's either too bright, or the camera can't recognize the coin, etc. Also the camera I use is quite poor, and 43 mm zoom in macro, is the max. Still, I'm kind of statisfied with the result. And maybe it proves @Al Kowsky point, about good coins make good photos. Or its my camera that just can't handle rougher surfaces. But below are two raw, unedited photos; one of a smoother, and better quality coin, and one of a not so fine coin. I had a lot of difficulty making a good photo of the second coin, and I'm still not happy with it. I've also noticed that taking photo's of silver coins seems to bring better results, than taking photos of bronzes. Must be the lighting, or perhaps the quality of the camera, I don't know. Lastly, by accident I've come to learn that the computer screen also matters, when looking at photos. I use a 7 year old laptop, and at work the screens are much better. The photo's I took of some of my coins, also looked better on that screen, than on our own screen. 

 

 

On 7/26/2023 at 3:27 PM, CPK said:

One thing I've found with using the lens extension is that the focus is quite sensitive and the depth of field is very shallow. Of course the focus can only be manually adjusted as well. But overall, I'm liking what I'm getting. Here's another before/after - this time, a very charming Victory.

 

S6:

 

Nikon D3200:

 

I actually cant decide between the two. I like no. 1, with the S6, because its a bit softer and seems to show the colouring a bit better. The second one is more detailed, but perhaps a bit too dark. 

 

[CPK]

Thanks! I will try to get some pictures later tonight.

[CPK]

Okay, here is what I've been using with the S6. At this point, probably 95% of all my coin photo presentations (with the light background and shadows) are taken like this:

(I used the S6 to take this photo, so the "placeholder" phone on the books is an even older, more decrepit one. 😄)

 

As you can see, I made the lightbox out of a few pieces of white cardstock stapled together. The coin rests on a little wooden spool - I bought a pack of them from Hobby Lobby for maybe $5. It helps to separate the coin from the background and makes it easier for the camera to focus on the coin. The light gray paper underneath the spool plays well with the camera's white balance settings.

The light is a flexible clamp desk lamp, with a daylight-spectrum LED bulb inside (bought from Wal-Mart). It's nice and bright, 15W and temp. of 5000K. The lightbox helps spread it around evenly. I nearly always have the light pointing straight up inside the box.

The phone is placed on a stack of books for stability - and I always use the same books.

Sometimes I'll place a small ring of black paper around the coin - this can help a lot with bringing out the details, since it blocks some of the light coming in from the sides, which tend to drown out faint details. This method doesn't work with every coin but I've found it generally very useful.

Overall, this setup has worked well and is pretty easy to use. Oh, almost forgot - I don't use the default factory Camera app; instead I use an app called "BestCamera". Seems to yield slightly higher quality images.

 

Now here is what I've been doing using my DSLR and the extension tubes:

 

On the floor this time, with an additional work light shining in from the other side. (Same type of bulb.) I'm still experimenting with this setup; as you can see I put the lightbox on its back with the coin in the middle to help distribute the light. I've found that using the flash on this camera produces a lot of "noise", so I've been eschewing that and using just the external lights. Camera shutter is tripped remotely to avoid vibration (all those tubes and the heavy lens mounted on a cheap tripod can be a bit wobbly.)

 

Editing is all done with GIMP. Most times I manually trace the coin to remove it from the background, (time consuming!) although sometimes I use Microsoft's Paint3D and their "Magic Tool" to do the separation. The Magic Tool is automatic, but it isn't as clean. The coin images are pasted onto the "studio background" image. Shadows and text are added in GIMP, as well as any other editing like exposure, brightness, shadow/highlights, etc., and when completed, I export it as a .jpeg file and crop it.

@Limes Actually the second image of Victory (using the DSLR) is much closer to what the coin looks like in real life; it's quite dark. But I know what you mean; sometimes the S6 does a really good job and might not be improvable with my current setup!

Interestingly here's the dealer's photo, but it's clearly not the same coin?? Never noticed that before! I think the one I was sent is much nicer. 🤔

 

 

 

 

[CPK]

5 hours ago, Limes said:

Interesting and insightful thread @CPK, thanks! And some good photos, too. Although quite a few members adhere to the no-background, or black background, way of life, I've always enjoyed adding some digital make up to my coin photos. And I really like your digital set up, and it goes without saying that @LONGINUS is the king when it comes to that 🙂

I'm also interested in your DIY home set up. I've always struggled with good lighting, and have given up, only taking photo's in daylight now. But taking photos in the evening is more convenient. I've tried using a lightbox, creating my own set up with wood, and using different lamps, but I just can't figure out what makes good lighting. It's either too bright, or the camera can't recognize the coin, etc. Also the camera I use is quite poor, and 43 mm zoom in macro, is the max. Still, I'm kind of statisfied with the result. And maybe it proves @Al Kowsky point, about good coins make good photos. Or its my camera that just can't handle rougher surfaces. But below are two raw, unedited photos; one of a smoother, and better quality coin, and one of a not so fine coin. I had a lot of difficulty making a good photo of the second coin, and I'm still not happy with it. I've also noticed that taking photo's of silver coins seems to bring better results, than taking photos of bronzes. Must be the lighting, or perhaps the quality of the camera, I don't know. Lastly, by accident I've come to learn that the computer screen also matters, when looking at photos. I use a 7 year old laptop, and at work the screens are much better. The photo's I took of some of my coins, also looked better on that screen, than on our own screen. 

 

 

I actually cant decide between the two. I like no. 1, with the S6, because its a bit softer and seems to show the colouring a bit better. The second one is more detailed, but perhaps a bit too dark. 

 

Those aren't bad. The Augustus is a beautiful coin! The Domitian also. It can be tough to get the right balance of light, especially with darker coins!

 

[Nerosmyfavorite68]

Thanks for sharing!  The cell phone setup certainly gives me hope, to get such great results from a fairly simple setup.  I've always enjoyed your photo presentations.

[CPK]

Here is another before-and-after. This coin is one of my favorites, a Secret Saturnalia gift from @Nerosmyfavorite68. But it is a bit tricky to photograph nicely. The new one, taken with the DSLR and two worklights, is a great improvement over the old photo and reflects much more exactly how the coin looks in real life.

Old:

 

New:

 

 

[HipShot Photography]

There is some beautiful work here.  When it comes to presentations, let me add my own two cents worth. 

Personally, I try not to let the background overpower the coins. To me, they are the stars of my show.

 

 

Simplicity can be your best friend.

 

Sometimes negative space makes the biggest impact.

 

And you can always leave room for text, above or to the side.

 

or, as I do occasionally, go completely off the rails.

 

 

[CPK]

1 hour ago, HipShot Photography said:

There is some beautiful work here.  When it comes to presentations, let me add my own two cents worth. 

Personally, I try not to let the background overpower the coins. To me, they are the stars of my show.

 

 

Simplicity can be your best friend.

 

Sometimes negative space makes the biggest impact.

 

And you can always leave room for text, above or to the side.

 

or, as I do occasionally, go completely off the rails.

 

 

Absolutely incredible! In particular I like the first two, photographed at an angle to show the edge and give a sense of 3-dimensional depth. I assume you have to focus stack those images?

Perusing your website is always an inspirational treat! 👍

[HipShot Photography]

2 minutes ago, CPK said:

Absolutely incredible! In particular I like the first two, photographed at an angle to show the edge and give a sense of 3-dimensional depth. I assume you have to focus stack those images?

Perusing your website is always an inspirational treat! 👍

Thank you.  Yes, those images are focus stacked.  Generally, it takes about 15 -20 images to capture a coin. 

[HipShot Photography]

On 8/5/2022 at 10:26 PM, CPK said:

@LONGINUS

Your graphic work is exceptional. I particularly like the layouts of your Denarii collections. Well done. Were those created for a specific application or for fun? 

[CPK]

Here's a new look I've been experimenting with. I kind of like it. I'm including a bit more numismatic information in more of an auction-style format. I've done one more besides this one, but I think I will be creating more soon.

 

[CPK]

One nice thing about doing all my work in GIMP is that I can easily customize a presentation using the different layers. Makes it easier to experiment with different ideas.

 

[Nerosmyfavorite68]

They're nice.  However, I like your old style a bit better.  It's easier on the eyes, or eye.

[Nerosmyfavorite68]

Just to clarify, the experimental way is attractive enough.  I meant literally easier on the eyes. With my eye trouble there's lots of strain to decipher the new way.  The old way isn't a problem.

[CPK]

29 minutes ago, Nerosmyfavorite68 said:

Just to clarify, the experimental way is attractive enough.  I meant literally easier on the eyes. With my eye trouble there's lots of strain to decipher the new way.  The old way isn't a problem.

Oh I know what you mean, the newer version is definitely more visually "busy". I like the old way, too. I'm just enjoying playing around with something different. 🙂

[CPK]

I have to say, I thought my old S6 pictures were pretty good...but nearly every time I take new ones with the DSLR+extension tubes I'm amazed how much better they are (and I'm sure they could be a lot better yet!)

Just took new photos of my Athena/owl tetradrachm this afternoon. Here's the before-and-after:

 

Edited September 17, 2023 by CPK