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When overstrikes are fun


catadc

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Got this coin last week-end and is currently on the way. Can't wait to see it in hand. It was the main target and I "snacked" on two other coins on my main collecting areas, including a 30 nummi. 

Here's the coin, described as "Michael IV. the Paphlagonian. (around 1040 AD). Æ Follis. Constantinople. repatinated. 25mm, 4,65g"

image.jpeg.8153ca2850840294fad2451df0b70ae9.jpeg

Nothing special. I do not even collect overstrikes. This is what got my interest: forget rider on dolphin, elephant or on the banal horse - how about a rider on a fantastic creature, and this on a byzantine? Now, try to unsee this:

image.jpeg.47867e5db53e2ae1e84fde48457b4198.jpeg

I realize it is childish to get excited by such a coin and by such a reason. On the other hand, I find it satisfying to buy a coin just because you find it interesting, and because why not?

The correct attribution - SB 1888, quite clear from the first pic, with the reverse being upside-down. Overstruck on SB 1880 (pic below), which was also overstruck or double-struck (upper torso of Jesus of is visible at the bottom of reverse on first pic).  

 image.jpeg.d8fe000ddfab38b095fd6b9986f00686.jpeg

Feel free to post any interesting overstrike or any coin you got because you found interesting. 

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Posted (edited)

Great coin! I love it when overstrikes have such clear details of the host coin. Two of my favorite overstrikes are these so-called Proto-Nabataean coins. When the Ptolemies and Seleucids had finally dispersed from Arabia and its environs, there were a bunch of small bronze coins floating around, which the Nabataeans overstruck for their purposes with Athena and Nike.

On this one you can see Athena looking up and Zeus looking down, and on the reverse, the eagle's head above Nike, claws below...

protolarge7.jpg.92dfe75680bcc39be6754f9e45b5fa8b.jpg

 

99.9999999% of these overstrikes occur on Ptolemaic bronzes, typically issues of Ptolemy III. But I did come across one struck over a Seleucid issue. Here you've got Athena and Antiochus IV (I think) on the obverse, and the reverse die had a chip that left part of his name un-struck. I've never seen another example of these types overstruck on a Seleucid coin...

protosel7.jpg.74c93ad8c562acea559a18ecb530601c.jpg

Edited by JAZ Numismatics
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Overstrikes are very fun. I’ve got a few like others but I’m at a coin show this weekend and can’t show them. Currently a neat Carausius flip over double strike and some byzantines as well. 

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Here are a few of mine!

I also have a Carausius antoninianus, but this one has been struck over an antoninianus of Victorinus (his nose is pointing towards 4-o-clock in my picture).

CarausiusOverstruckonVictorinus.jpg.e8bd8ac220dabbdaf8a5567a90f4eb41.jpg

 

I also have this unusual antoninianus of Maximianus, which appears to have been overstruck on a coin with "SEV" on the obverse, and something I can't make out on the reverse. If anyone has any ideas please let me know! MaximianusIOVICONSERVATAVGGOverstruck.jpg.e38ab6a8367c4c155d0a971705d5863f.jpg

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Posted (edited)

Here is one, that was sold to me as JANUS...

(I knew that it was not a Janus As... but had to learn what it was all about.)

upload_2022-3-2_16-32-39.png
RR Anon AE Sextans-Hieron II Overstrike 214-212 BCE S1211 Cr69-6

This was sold as a Roman Republic Janus Head... none were ever this small. It turns out to be an overstrike of a Roman Sextans over a Syracuse Hieron II.

A) Sicily, Syracuse, Hieron II, 275-215 BCE AE head of Poseidon left, rev. IEP-ÙNOÓ, trident flanked by dolphins, Ó[?] below (SNG Morcom 828 var.), dark green patina.
Obv. Diademed head of Poseidon left.
Rev. IEPΩNOΣ, Ornamented trident head flanked by two dolphins; below, N.

OVERSTRUCK by:

B) Anonymous AE-Sextans, Sicily, 211-208 BC.
Head of Mercury right wearing winged petasos; • • above. Rev. Prow of galley right; grain ear above, IC before, ROMA below.
Crawford 69/6b; Sydenham 310d; BMCRR 280.

19mm / 5.3g


upload_2021-2-25_19-28-51.png
Sicily Syracuse Hieron II 275-215 BCE AE20 Poseidon Trident Dolphin Left


Then Rome conquered them, and overstruck their AE's to make Sextans:

upload_2021-2-25_19-31-58.png
RR Anon AE Sextans 211-206 BCE Prob Sicily-Katana mintage Cr 69-6a Sear 1211


But some of the overstrikes were not "too perfect". The Dealer tried to tell me this was a Janiform! It was a cool deal for me... He did not know.

Edited by Alegandron
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No real sentimental value in my coin, however, @TIF graciously performed some great detecting work on my Mercenary War Shekel. This was struck by the OTHER side. I have shown this before, but I really enjoy Carthage Empire coins, and yours is just plain gorgeous!

[IMG]
Carthage-LIBYAN UPRISING - Mercenaries issue
Mercenary War 241-238 BCE
7.36g AR Shekel
Herakles Head in Lion's Head-
Lion walking; Punic M above; LIBYA below
R SNG Cop 240f
Overstrike
Coins were struck in the name of Libya and "M", which has been taken as either "machanat" - the Camp (of the mercenaries), or perhaps Matho, their leader

@TIF was the savior with some incredible detective work to SOLVE the overstrike / Understrike coin
https://www.cointalk.com/threads/overstrike-detective-work.335938/

[IMG]

The wheat grains are partly off flan on the example host coin but I think in total it is enough to declare it a definite match for the undertype :).”

She ultimately deduced the Understruck coin... and I actually have an example in my collection! Bizarre coincidence.

[IMG]
Carthage Zeugitania
Libyan Revolt
AR Shekel
24mm 7.34g
241-238 BCE
Wreathed Tanit
Horse stndg control mark and Punic M
SNG Cop 236
 
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Overstrikes are usually fun, and sometimes historically significant in determining the order of things. Sometimes they just create really cool abstract art. Sometimes they obliterate both coins into an incoherent mess. Byzantines seem to provide a wide array of overstrikes.

For example, this Anonymous Class B has pretty clear remnants of an Anonymous Class A2 beneath it. The obverse at least has a pretty coherent overstrike with good details, but the reverse became pretty garbled. This one was a late Christmas present to myself and it arrived in the mail on December 26th of last year.

1028_to_1034_RomanusIII_Follis_01.png.6f57972d78dfcd07331ac8659ca1bbe8.png1028_to_1034_RomanusIII_Follis_02.png.ed0c1d8782216cfd165c9e380f0f0888.png
Romanus III (1028-1034); Constantinople; Æ Anonymous Follis, Class B, Obv: IC to left, XC to right, to bust of Christ, nimbate, facing, holding book of Gospels; Rev: IS XS / BAS ILE / BAS ILE to left and right above and below cross on three steps; 29 mm. 10.2 gm.; Sear 1823

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5 hours ago, ewomack said:

Overstrikes are usually fun, and sometimes historically significant in determining the order of things. Sometimes they just create really cool abstract art. Sometimes they obliterate both coins into an incoherent mess. Byzantines seem to provide a wide array of overstrikes.

For example, this Anonymous Class B has pretty clear remnants of an Anonymous Class A2 beneath it. The obverse at least has a pretty coherent overstrike with good details, but the reverse became pretty garbled. This one was a late Christmas present to myself and it arrived in the mail on December 26th of last year.

1028_to_1034_RomanusIII_Follis_01.png.6f57972d78dfcd07331ac8659ca1bbe8.png1028_to_1034_RomanusIII_Follis_02.png.ed0c1d8782216cfd165c9e380f0f0888.png
Romanus III (1028-1034); Constantinople; Æ Anonymous Follis, Class B, Obv: IC to left, XC to right, to bust of Christ, nimbate, facing, holding book of Gospels; Rev: IS XS / BAS ILE / BAS ILE to left and right above and below cross on three steps; 29 mm. 10.2 gm.; Sear 1823

Nice overstrike. What I'm really impressed with, though, is that you got it on December 26th. Here in the UK you'd be lucky to get a delivery before New Year!

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Posted (edited)

I am a huge fan of overstrikes, I even co-authored a paper on them with Andrew McCabe some time ago. My favorites are when you have two opposing sides in a conflict overstriking captured examples of each other's coins and here are two of my favorite examples:

Rome over Carthage: 
Roman Republic Æ Semis(11.47g, 27mm). Anonymous, after 211 BC, mint in Southern Italy, Sicily or Sardinia. Laureate head of Saturn right, S behind/Prow of galley right, S above, ROMA below. McCabe Anonymous group H1(half weight overstrikes); Cf. Crawford 56/3
Overstruck on Carthaginian bronze with head of Tanit left/Horse standing right, head turned left. For overstrike, cf Hersh, Numismatic Chronicle 1953, 6; Crawford, overstrikes 31.H1SemisOverCarthage-bothorientations.jpeg.488831359069c5bef5272f2c7bdd0c66.jpeg

 

And Rome over Akarnanian League:

roma-akarnania.png.392997fdebe16cb6e51e651049fe17a8.png

Roman Republic Æ Triens(20mm, 5.88g, 12h), anonymous("CA" series), 209-195 B.C., Canusium(?) mint. Helmeted head of Minerva right; above, •••• / Prow right; above, ROMA; below, ••••; to right, CA. Crawford 100/3; Sydenham 309c
Overstruck on Oiniadai, Akarnania Zeus/Acheloüs, cf. BCD Akarnania 345-348 for undertype. For CA triens overstruck on Oiniadai cf. Hersh NC 1953, 14 and cf. Crawford Table XVIII, 91
Ex Stevex6 Collection via coin.ages, eBay, January 27 2018, ex RBW Collection, CNG e-auction 364, December 2 2015, lot 90, ex Stacks Coin Galleries, August 20 1986, lot 117, ex Frederick S. Knobloch Collection, Stacks May 4 1978, lot 90

Edited by red_spork
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Posted (edited)

Hi All,

This overstrike can be used to confirm the order of the controls for the coins of this series.

upload_2020-7-4_15-1-36.png

Ptolemy II Philadelphos (285-246 BCE)
Cyprus, Uncertain Mint 22 (Probably On Cyprus)
Series 2, Bronze Weight Standard 1 - probably early 260s BCE

Æ Obol
Size: 21 mm
Wieght: 9 g
Die Axis: 11:00

Broucheion Collection P-2000-10-28.001
OBV: Alexander the Great in elephant scalp headdress facing right wearing scaly aegis tied by snakes. No centration depresion. Dotted border.
REV: Εagle on thunderbolt facing left, wings closed; In left field: ΔΙ above grain ear. Legend to left: [ΠΤΟΛΕΜΑΙΟΥ]; to right: ΒΑΣΙΛΕ[ΩΣ]. No centration depresion. Dotted border.

Refs: Lorber CPE-B318**; Svoronos-382 / Svoronos-363, pl xi. 9; SNG Copenhagen-99 (die axis 12:00)
**This coin noted in CPE references description under coins CPE-B110 and CPE-B318

- Broucheion

 

Edited by Broucheion
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Posted (edited)

Hi All,

Overstruck coin and its undertype.


upload_2021-5-16_2-38-59.png

Æ Hemiobol Ptolemy I Soter (306/305-283 BCE), Egypt, Alexandria / Cyprus? Series 2A: ca 306-294 BCE
Size: 17x15 mm
Weight: 2.5 g
Die Axis: 1:00
Broucheion Collection 2001-02-08.001

 

Obv: Alexander the Great, diademmed and horned bare head with long, curly hair, facing right. No border visible. Overstruck on coin of Demetrius with reverse prow of ship. Monogram AP and labris below chin (reverse undertype) showing through at base of Alexander's head.
Rev: Εagle facing left, wings spread. In right field: ΚΛ above Corinthian helmet. Legend: ΠΤΟΛΕΜΑΙΟΥ; to right: [ΒΑΣΙΛΕΩΣ] off flan. No border visible.
Refs: Lorber: CPE-B022; Svoronos-171, pl A, 26 [9 listed]; SNG Copenhagen-43 var: different monogram.
Undertype: (Æ 17mm; 2.63g; Die Axis:00:00): ET Newell, "The Coinages of Demetrius Poliorcetes," pl. II, 9 & 10. Neither example shows the curving tip of the prow all the way up to the ornament, but 10 shows enough to assure the identification of the undertype. See also Newell 163; SNG München 1056; SNG Alpha Bank 956.
Provenances: David Hendin (Ptolemaic coin) Praefectus Coins (Demetrios coin)

From CC Lorber - CPE: "Ptolemy’s final currency reform can be dated with precision. The overstriking of bronze coins of Demetrius Poliorcetes with the types of B22 establishes that the reform can be dated no earlier than the Ptolemaic recovery of Cyprus in 294, while the overstriking of Demetrian bronzes with the types of B78 indicates that the process of overstriking the enemy’s coinage continued after the currency reform. The evidence of the overstrikes can be supplemented by control links between the reformed precious metal coinage of Alexandria and issues of Cyprus, Sidon, and Tyre. The earliest Cypriote issues share four of the above-mentioned controls (CPE 217-218, 221-222, 230, 234-236), while the earliest issue of Sidon and the second of Tyre share one of them (CPE 241-242, 244-245). The first Ptolemaic tetradrachm of Tyre (CPE 243), though not involved in this nexus of control links, was closely related to the coinage of Demetrian Tyre but struck on the weight standard of the reformed coinage. The currency reform is thus fixed between the Ptolemaic reconquest of Cyprus and the surrender of Tyre. CC Lorber (2012) has now demonstrated that the latter event must be situated in the immediate aftermath of the victory on Cyprus."

- Broucheion

 

Edited by Broucheion
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Posted (edited)
On 5/12/2024 at 7:53 PM, ewomack said:

Overstrikes are usually fun, and sometimes historically significant in determining the order of things. Sometimes they just create really cool abstract art. Sometimes they obliterate both coins into an incoherent mess. Byzantines seem to provide a wide array of overstrikes.

For example, this Anonymous Class B has pretty clear remnants of an Anonymous Class A2 beneath it. The obverse at least has a pretty coherent overstrike with good details, but the reverse became pretty garbled. This one was a late Christmas present to myself and it arrived in the mail on December 26th of last year.

1028_to_1034_RomanusIII_Follis_01.png.6f57972d78dfcd07331ac8659ca1bbe8.png1028_to_1034_RomanusIII_Follis_02.png.ed0c1d8782216cfd165c9e380f0f0888.png
Romanus III (1028-1034); Constantinople; Æ Anonymous Follis, Class B, Obv: IC to left, XC to right, to bust of Christ, nimbate, facing, holding book of Gospels; Rev: IS XS / BAS ILE / BAS ILE to left and right above and below cross on three steps; 29 mm. 10.2 gm.; Sear 1823

@ewomack, Can't help saying, for Byzantines, this one (pun alert: too late) strikes me as being an especially nice example.  From here, the placement and contrast of the reverses seem unusually clean.  

I can't speak for Classical, but for Byzantine, the range of examples has to evoke peck marks on Viking Age coins.  Right, the same kind of sweet spot you mention, between 'evident' and 'intrusive.'  In this case, to further wallow in reiteration (sorry), both motifs, not neither.

Edited by JeandAcre
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I love overstrikes! Especially Byzantine. 

Here are my 2 favorite:
slazzer-edit-image(13).png.8a2e358208d13b68b56b60174ed323a2.png

Justin II and Sophia
AE Half Follis
565-578 AD
Thessalonica
Obverse: DN IVSTINVS PP AVG, Justin left and Sophia right, seated facing on double-throne, both nimbate, Justin holding cross on globe, Sophia holding sceptre topped by cross
Reverse: Large K, ANNO to left, cross above, regnal year "E" to right, officina letter below. (No mintmark on this series)
SB 361

Overstruck on:
Justinian I

527-565 AD
AE 16 Nummi
Thessalonica
Obverse: DN IVSTINIANVS PP AVG, pearl diademed, draped, cuirassed bust right
Reverse: Large I, officina letter to left, star-cross-star above, SP to right, mintmark TES

 

BasilIConstantineVIIFollisOverstruckonFollisofTheophilus.png.5b17137d0c242c481d2f7f17efb42b22.png

Basil I and Constantine VII
AE Follis
Constantinople
867-876 AD
Obverse: bASILIO S CONSTAN BASILIS, Basil, crowned, bearded and wearing loros on left and Constantine (much shorter), crowned and wearing loros, on right, seated facing on double throne, holding labarum between them
Reverse: bASILIO-S CONSTAN-TINOS EN OO-bASILEIS R-OMAION legend in five lines

Overstruck on:
Theophilus
AE Follis
830-842 AD
Constantinople
Obverse: ThEOFIL' bASIL', crowned, three-quarter length figure of Theophilus facing, pellets on crown, wearing loros, holding labarum and cross on globe
Reveres: ThEO-FILE AVG-OVStE SV-nICAS in four lines

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