Do you like overpaying for coins? I thought I didn't but ...

[ambr0zie]

... but it seems that I need to do my homework a little better before bidding. 

Not a dramatic fail (I have surely seen worse) but until a week ago I thought that Marius coins are exceptionally rare. There was no confusion in my head with Laelianus, I just thought that both of them are about equal in rarity. 

So when seeing a coin available in the auction I was in and also noticing it stays below 100 euros, I jumped on it (bonus - I like the reverse theme). I gave myself a pat on the back thinking it's a great deal, even if the condition is extremely modest (to put this diplomatically). I was fairly sure that Marius coins are 1. rare and expensive and 2. all have poor strikes and metal quality so what I got is a "normal" Marius coin. 

20 mm, 3,57 g.
Marius, usurper in Gaul 269 AD. Billon antononianus. Treveri (Cunetio attribution) / Cologne (RIC attribution).
IMP C MARIVS P F AVG, radiate, draped and cuirassed bust of Marius to right / CONCORDIA MILITVM, clasped right hands.
AGK (corr.) 1b; Cunetio 2503; Elmer 633; RIC 6.

Actually the pat on the back became a head banged on desk when I noticed that my assumptions were wrong. Although clearly scarcer than Postumus or Victorinus, there is a fair number of decent antoninianii on the market without breaking the bank. I was less than pleased when seeing that for 100 euros there is a good chance to acquire a presentable example. So - not the smartest purchase for me. 

But in the end, I am not very upsed - as I added a new emperor in my collection. 

2 words about Marius - many of them speculations as the history is a little unclear. 

He was a blacksmith and raised through ranks in the army to become an officer. He took part in the revolt at Moguntiacum (todayMainz, Germany) when the emperor Postumus did not allow the emperor to sack the city. The emperor was killed and Marius was named emperor by the army. 

For me it is still unclear what is the correct succession - I lean to Postumus-Laelianus-Marius. 

Anyway the reign of Marius was very short, but the number of coins with his name indicate that it wasn't that short (Eutropius, a historian living 100 years after Marius, indicated 3 days of reign; Aurelius Victor, another historian contemporary to Eutropius, wrote that his reign lasdted 1 day). I suspect the actual reign was 2-3 months. 

Marius was killed by Victorinus and the tradition says he was killed with a sword manufactured by him (Marius). 

Let's see coins of Marius OR coins you inadequately considered much rarer than they actually are. 

 

Edited March 11 by ambr0zie

[seth77]

Oh man it was you who bought that one...

[ambr0zie]

In the end all that matters is a new coin in my collection. As long as this kind of purchase is not a habit, it's cool.

(trying to convince myself it's very cool)

[seth77]

Those auctions are great and I follow them regularly, but it's very easy to lose perspective and end up in bidding wars for something that you wouldn't have expected to see in that particular venue. I have noticed strong prices in everything that is not characteristic for their auctions whenever it appears there - Spanish provincial, 3rd-4th century Western mints, even French feudal (in the very rare instances when they have such material in auction).

[CPK]

Sorry to hear your frustration @ambr0zie - but you're not alone! I'm afraid I overpaid considerably for this one - it's a nice portrait but the type isn't terribly rare. It was also an auction.

Still, the irritation wears off eventually. I'm glad I have the coin in my collection.

CILICIA, POMPEIOPOLIS
AE (21.66mm, 5.94g, 11h)
Struck after 66 BC
Obverse: Bare head of Pompey the Great right
Reverse: ΠΟΜΠΗΙΟΠΟΛΕΙΤΩΝ, Nike advancing right, holding palm in left hand and wreath in right; to right, two monograms
cf. SNG BnF 1213-17; cf. SNG Levante 882

Olive green patina with some edge chips. A possible lifetime portrait of the great imperator.

[ambr0zie]

Thanks @CPK. And yes, I fully agree with this part 

13 minutes ago, CPK said:

Still, the irritation wears off eventually. I'm glad I have the coin in my collection.

 

In fact, the irritation was forgotten after a few minutes, when I understood that I overestimated the coin's rarity and my initial assumption was wrong - that most Marius coins are in terrible shape. In the end, I added another ancient coin from a scarce ruler in my collection, with a good reverse, and even if the price I paid is NOT justified (~80 euros including fees) it's difficult to get a very cheap Marius, unless is unattributed or wrongly attributed. 

I know the Pompeiopolis coin type. When I was collaborating with an auction house, writing attributions, I discovered that type then and I was very curious to see a price for it after I found the attribution. In fact, this is not uncommon (but I really like your coin's portrait and toning) so the price remained very low. 

Edited March 11 by ambr0zie

[Ryro]

I too have noticed more Marius coins in the market the last few years. Though, I don't think you over paid by much. He is still not common and has a great story. 

Sadly, Laelianus is VERY rare and often faked.

Here's my Marius:

Marius. Antoninianus. 269 AD. Trier. (Ric-V 2.7 Ticinum). Anv.: IMP C MARIVS P F AVG, radiate, draped and cuirassed bust to right. Rev.: CONCORDIA MILITVM, clasped hands. Ae. 2,75 g. Almost VF/VF. Purchased from Tauler & Fau 

[Dafydd]

This is my only Marius

Marius, 268 Antoninianus Cologne 268, billon 17.00 mm., 3.25 g. Priapus Numismatics Auction 1 November 2023.

[Coinmaster]

Well, Ambr0zie, it's still a Marius AND you have learned something, I call this a win!

Just enjoy and thanks for sharing!

[Amarmur]

I recently bought this Justinian Plague Follis from Nicomedia and paid $100. I overpaid here. It came with 4 other byzantines but they were cull and shabby. It is a beautiful portrait but the big Justinian Follis coins come a lot cheaper generally like $60 give or take. Byzantine bronzes are generally inexpensive. I still like it so I'm not too upset. 

[Qcumbor]

Marius isn't that rare, but not so common either

My only one of his

Marius, Antoninianus - Mint #2 : Köln or Mainz
MP C M AVR MARIVS AVG, radiate, draped and cuirassed bust right
VICT - ORIA AVG, Victory walking left, holding wreath and palm
3,2 gr
Ref : RIC # 17, RCV # 11124, Cohen # 21 (20Fr), Schulzki 7a

Q

[Ocatarinetabellatchitchix]

15 hours ago, ambr0zie said:

For me it is still unclear what is the correct succession - I lean to Postumus-Laelianus-Marius. 

From the new RIC V.4:

[Romismatist]

I bought this lot in December 2021 for EUR 165. The Marius is on the bottom right. I probably overpaid as well...

[Nerosmyfavorite68]

Trajan (98-117) - AE Dupondius - 28mm. 12.58g RIC 428 Abundantia nice aqua patina

I really wanted the coin for the patina, and it is a scarce patina, but I paid $150 for this.  I did even it out for paying a relatively modest amount for other, enjoyable buys.

[Victor_Clark]

y'all don't understand overpaying until you do this

 

 

1200 eur 

 

the auction company even listed this one as an auction highlight (bottom right)

 

 

or this one

 

 

1500 eur

 

 

 

650 pounds

 

 

 

440 pounds

 

 

...and I could go on and on. 

[ambr0zie]

At least they're honest.

[Tejas]

Sorry to hear about your frustration. I would say Laelianus is significantly rarer than Marius. 

This is probably my nicest Marius. 

The coin was about 320 euros and I bought it in an auction. I think this price is about right.  Below is my only Laelianus. I found this one misattributed on Ebay, i.e. this is one of the rare occasions were I seriously underpaid. In a normal auction this coin would probably go vor anything between 800 and 1200 euros.

 

Edited March 12 by Tejas

[Tejas]

5 hours ago, Victor_Clark said:

 

1500 eur

I remember this one. I was keen to get this coin, but was massively outbid. A beautiful piece though.

[Valentinian]

On 3/11/2024 at 4:29 AM, CPK said:

A possible lifetime portrait of the great imperator.

That coin with a head of Pompey from Pompeiopolis is attributed by Roman Provincial Coinage II on-line to the time of Domitian.  

[JAZ Numismatics]

You didn't overpay. You could have spent twice as much for a coin in a better grade, but 100 euros for that example is about right.

Edited March 16 by JAZ Numismatics

[CPK]

29 minutes ago, Valentinian said:

That coin with a head of Pompey from Pompeiopolis is attributed by Roman Provincial Coinage II on-line to the time of Domitian.  

There are several different types that are very similar. Mine most closely matches RPC I 4002a, which RPC lists as struck during the reign of Tiberius. The types RPC dates to Domitian's reign have a distinctive, almost Flavian style portrait; unlike my coin, IMO. Plus, the reverse differs.

And of course not all references agree with RPC's dating of these types, and this ambiguity is reflected in most auction listings - this most recent one for example, from CNG, who labels it as 66-27 BC:

https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=12107741

"Roman Provincial
CILICIA, Pompeiopolis. Cnaeus Pompeius Magnus (Pompey the Great). 66-27 BC. Æ (19mm, 4.96 g, 11h). Bare head right / Nike advancing right, holding wreath and palm; monogram over POV ΔH in right field. RPC I 4002A var. (controls); SNG BN 1217; SNG Levante 880-882 var. (same). Red-brown patina, light roughness. VF.
Ex Tom Cederlind."

I tried to take the safest view, and labeled my coin simply as "struck after 66 BC."

[rasiel]

On 3/11/2024 at 7:51 PM, Victor_Clark said:

y'all don't understand overpaying until you do this

1200 eur [Constantine I] or this one [Maximian] 1500 eur

Oh God. How? What is the story behind these prices paid... malfunctioning stuck key when bidding??

Rasiel

 

[Victor_Clark]

8 minutes ago, rasiel said:

 

 

If you collect certain series, you pay what you have to. For the Maximianus, the bust type is not in RIC and the only example I have seen. It is also the nicest CONSERVATOR in my collection. Of course, if you only collect one of each Emperor, you have much more financial flexibility.

 

https://www.constantinethegreatcoins.com/CONSERVATOR/

[Nerosmyfavorite68]

Or if one collects by other factors, like patina, looks, etc.

[Qcumbor]

Someone grossly overpaid (not me)

I bought that one at auction for 45 CHF + juice :

 

Less than a year later, at the same auction house someone decided that 4400 CHF + fees would be the right price for this other example :

 

Go figure !!

Q