Salomons Cat Posted February 19 · Member Share Posted February 19 (edited) The Tribute Penny is the coin that was shown to Jesus when he made his famous speech "Render unto Caesar...". There are various translations of this story, differing in details. What they have in common is that Jesus was asked by hostile "spies" whether Jews should pay taxes to the Roman authorities. They anticipated that Jesus would oppose the tax, as their purpose was "to hand him over to the power and authority of the governor". The governor was Pilate, responsible for tax collection in Roman Judea. Initially, the questioners flattered Jesus, praising his integrity, impartiality, and devotion to truth. Then they asked if it was right for Jews to pay Caesar's taxes. In some versions, they provocatively asked, "Should we pay or shouldn't we?" Jesus first called them hypocrites, then asked for a suitable Roman coin for paying Caesar's tax. One of them showed a Roman coin, and Jesus asked whose head and inscription were on it. They answered, "Caesar's," to which Jesus responded: "Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's, and unto God the things that are God's". This phrase has become a widely quoted summary of the relationship between Christianity, secular government, and society, leading to multiple interpretations about when Christians should submit to earthly authority. Numismatists, however, mostly believe that the central focus of the story is the Roman coin. And what concerns them most is the question: Which coin was it?! TIBERIUS (14-37). Denarius, Lugdunum mint. Weight: 3.80 g. Diameter: 19 mm. Obv: TI CAESAR DIVI AVG F AVGVSTVS. Rev: PONTIF MAXIM. Livia (as Pax) seated right on throne, holding sceptre and olive branch. RIC² 30. The traditional answer is that "The Tribute Penny" is a denarius of Tiberius. Firstly, because he was the emperor at the time and also because the translation suggests the coin was a denarius: the Greek text uses the word δηνάριον, a Roman denarius (Matthew 22:19). The word "penny" seems to first appear in Wycliffe’s Bible translation of the New Testament texts in the 1480s. At that time, the penny was the current silver coin, about dime-size, and equivalent to a day's pay, making it a natural translation of denarius. In fact, the old abbreviation for one English penny (or pence) was 1 d. (for 'denarius'). Thus the denarius of the Romans became a "penny" in the English language Bible. However, some scholars suggest that denarii were not in common circulation in Judaea during Jesus' lifetime. Therefore, the coin in question might have been another one if we do not take the bible text too literally. This “Alternate Tribute Penny” could have been a denarius of Julius Caesar, of Augustus, or even a tetradrachm. There is also the possibility that the Tribute Penny was an aureus because the Gospel of Thomas 100:1-4 (excluded from the New Testament) tells a slightly different version of the story: "They showed Jesus a gold (coin) and said to him: Caesar’s agents demand taxes from us. He said to them: Give to Caesar what belongs to Caesar; give to God what belongs to God, and give to me what is mine." I would like to add another (admittedly very unlikely) alternative: The coin in question might have been an aureus fourré of the tribute penny. This would be a denarius, a penny in the sense of Wycliffe’s Bible, and a gold coin at the same time, thus satisfying most translators 😉 TIBERIUS (14-37). Aureus fourré over a denarius from the Lugdunum mint. Weight: 3.65 g. Diameter: 19 mm. Obv: TI CAESAR DIVI AVG F AVGVSTVS. Rev: PONTIF MAXIM. Livia (as Pax) seated right on throne, holding sceptre and olive branch. Remarkably, counterfeiting coins in ancient Rome was highly risky yet commonplace. The basis of Roman law concerning counterfeiting is considered to be the Lex Cornelia de falsis from 81 BC. During the time of the Principate, the historical sources that bring information about the content of the Lex Cornelia de falsis can be found in the letters from emperors to provincial governors. Being found guilty of counterfeiting, melting, clipping, washing or injuring any silver coin would have brought you banishment, lifetime work in the mines, crucifixion or capital punishment depending on the social status of the convicted one. All of these measures could take place when trying to abuse the silver coin. In the case of illegal actions made on gold coins, the sinner would have been thrown to wild beasts in the amphitheatre while slaves were tortured to death: “Quicumque nummos aureos partim raserint, partim tinxerint vel finxerint: si quidem liberi sunt, ad bestias dari, si servi, summo supplicio adfici debent.” The coin shown above is considerably lighter than a real aureus. I wonder if it really fooled anyone and what has happened to the counterfeiter. Sources: - Peter Paul Rubens for the painting - foumancientcoins.com: The Tribute Penny of the Bible - Wikipedia: Render unto Caesar and Tribute Penny - Gaspar, Răzvan Bogdan. “Counterfeiting Roman Coins in the Roman Empire 1st-3rd A.D. Study on the Roman Provinces of Dacia and Pannoinia.” Journal of Ancient History and Archeology 2.4 (2015) 31-74. Thanks for reading! Surprisingly, I think that this is the first topic that is dedicated to Tribute Pennies. Please show your Tribute Pennies, your Alternate Tributes Pennies, any fourrés and ancient counterfeits and anything that you feel that is relevant Edited February 20 by Salomons Cat 19 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ominus1 Posted February 19 · Patron Share Posted February 19 (edited) ..i have a couple...one that we call a 'tribute penny' and one actual 'tribute coin' from Levon lV of Armenia to the Mamluke Al Naser around 1332, who had some of them overstruck in Arabic Edited February 19 by ominus1 16 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qcumbor Posted February 19 · Supporter Share Posted February 19 2 hours ago, Salomons Cat said: Nice one ! Mine Tiberius, Denarius - Lyon mint, after 15-16 CE TI CAESAR DIVI AVG F AVGUSTUS, Laureate head of Tiberius right PONTIF MAXIM, Woman seated right on a throne (Livia ?) and holding sceptre 3.71 gr Ref : RIC # 30, RCV #1763, Cohen #16 Q 16 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPK Posted February 19 · Supporter Share Posted February 19 A beautiful example, @Salomons Cat. I read an article not long ago about the "tribute penny" and I agree with the authors that the most likely candidate for the coin is indeed the Tiberius/seated figure denarius. They pointed out that Matthew, who wrote one of the Gospel accounts of this story, being a tax collector would have been quite familiar with the different coin denominations and their values - and indeed he showed this familiarity by mentioning a number of distinct coin denominations by name throughout his Gospel. He would not have called this coin a denarius if it were actually a tetradrachm, for example. The question of which denarius is a little more muddled, but in my opinion the account gives the impression that Jesus is talking about the current emperor (Tiberius), not a deceased ruler. The Pharisees' question was certainly about the current ruling emperor, and it makes sense that Jesus's response was in the same spirit. As for the question of circulation, I think many people greatly underestimate the degree to which these coins flowed and circulated throughout the ancient world. This denarius had upwards of ten years to cycle through the Roman Empire - through the hands of soldiers, travelling merchants, etc. before the time of the Gospel account. Surely it is not that unlikely that a sizeable number of these types made it to the Holy Land in that time. At any rate, one of them could have. 😉 Here is my own specimen: TIBERIUS, AD 14-37 AR Denarius (18.61mm, 3.72g, 12h) Struck AD 16-21. Lugdunum mint Obverse: TI CAESAR DIVI AVG F AVGVSTVS, laureate head of Tiberius right Reverse: PONTIF MAXIM, female figure seated right, holding vertical scepter and branch, on chair with plain legs above double line References: OCRE I 26, RCV 1763 Old cabinet toning. Some corrosion pits on reverse. Fine portrait of Tiberius. From the A.K. Collection. This coin was published in the numismatic journal Money Trend (Jan. 2008 issue), in Dr. Wendelin Kellner's article "Ungewöhnliche und irreguläre Römermünzen" (page 135, abb. 2) 14 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nerosmyfavorite68 Posted February 20 · Member Share Posted February 20 The top one is a very attractive example. The plated one is also neat. The great examples also posted added to the very interesting discussion. I must admit that I'm lacking any examples of this type. Opportunity cost has prevented me from acquiring the type. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DLTcoins Posted February 20 · Member Share Posted February 20 Below is a very good article by Oliver Hoover. I will add that in my view it's important to remember that gospels are religious polemic: not history, not biography, not journalism. The evangelist wrote what he wanted to write, using imagery familiar to his intended audience (likely a community of the 60s or 70s in Rome itself), and to address a specific issue of concern to that audience, payment of the Roman poll tax. https://numismatics.org/pocketchange/tribute-penny/ 5 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPK Posted February 20 · Supporter Share Posted February 20 40 minutes ago, DLTcoins said: Below is a very good article by Oliver Hoover. I will add that in my view it's important to remember that gospels are religious polemic: not history, not biography, not journalism. The evangelist wrote what he wanted to write, using imagery familiar to his intended audience (likely a community of the 60s or 70s in Rome itself), and to address a specific issue of concern to that audience, payment of the Roman poll tax. https://numismatics.org/pocketchange/tribute-penny/ I disagree with your opinion on the Gospels. Whether or not you accept their religious message, they clearly have enormous historical value. There is no reason to doubt the authorship or authenticity - they speak in great detail of the times, peoples, places, and events with a precision of knowledge that could only have been obtained firsthand. For example, Luke, in addition to writing the gospel which bears his name, also wrote the book of Acts, which is almost a travel guide to the 1st century Roman Mediterranean world. The level of detail he records (which has been corroborated by other sources and archaeology) is astounding - cities, rulers, laws and customs, etc. To quote one authority on the matter: "To a large degree, archaeological discoveries have supported Luke's historical accuracy. For example, we now know that his use of titles for various kinds of local and provincial governmental officials - procurators, consuls, praetors, politarchs, Asiarchs, and others - was exactly correct for the times and localities about which he was writing. This accuracy is doubly remarkable in that the use of these terms was in a constant state of flux because the political status of various communities was constantly changing." - Dr. Robert H. Gundry, A Survey of the New Testament (p.334) In fact, there are a great many evidences demonstrating the historicity of the Gospels and Acts - a fact which should be of great value to anyone, religious or not, who is interested in ancient history. 8 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DLTcoins Posted February 20 · Member Share Posted February 20 (edited) @CPK I didn't say that the gospels lack historical value. I noted that they serve a different purpose than secular histories. Edited February 20 by DLTcoins 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Atherton Posted February 20 · Member Share Posted February 20 I don't have a traditional "Tribute Penny", BUT, I do have this Vespasian denarius which copies that famous type struck for Tiberius. Vespasian AR Denarius, 3.50g Rome mint, 73 AD Obv: IMP CAES VESP AVG CENS; Head of Vespasian, laureate, r. Rev: PONTIF MAXIM; Vespasian, togate, seated r., feet on stool, holding vertical sceptre in r. hand and branch in l. RIC 546 (C3). BMC 98. RSC 387. BNC 86. Acquired from Pars Coins, March 2004. 13 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPK Posted February 20 · Supporter Share Posted February 20 (edited) 1 hour ago, DLTcoins said: @CPK I didn't say that the gospels lack historical value. I noted that they serve a different purpose than secular histories. When you said the Gospels were "not history, not biography, not journalism" I took you to mean that they didn't have value as history, i.e., that they weren't historically accurate. Edited February 20 by CPK Clarity and brevity 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AETHER Posted February 20 · Member Share Posted February 20 Beautiful coins, I have two examples which I think are likely a "tribute penny" and kinda low grade, but I don't mind and enjoy the honest wear 11 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Octavius Posted February 20 · Supporter Share Posted February 20 Tiberius with Livia as Pax reverse in gold and silver... 10 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rasiel Posted February 20 · Member Share Posted February 20 It's clear to me this issue is going to remain controversial. Just from an objective reading the intent here is not specific to a particular coin nor probably even to a denomination. The most level-headed interpretation here is that Caesar wants his money (taxes) so pay up. If you can accept this premise then it follows that the bill should be settled according to the bottom line. For some it might have been just a literal penny, for others a handful of "pennies" and for the wealthiest it probably added up to a whole hell of a lot more than just one penny. I can see this discussion being transposed to the modern era and it goes something like this "hey, you see this here money? Who's on it?" to which the answer "A president". To which Jesus' stand-in admonishes "Ah yes, well then remit to the IRS the share due to the state...." Now imagine that the writing is rediscovered several thousand years into the future where scholars furiously debate which president must have been meant. This is why the argument misses the point. Rasiel 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPK Posted February 21 · Supporter Share Posted February 21 On 2/19/2024 at 11:06 PM, rasiel said: It's clear to me this issue is going to remain controversial. Just from an objective reading the intent here is not specific to a particular coin nor probably even to a denomination. The most level-headed interpretation here is that Caesar wants his money (taxes) so pay up. If you can accept this premise then it follows that the bill should be settled according to the bottom line. For some it might have been just a literal penny, for others a handful of "pennies" and for the wealthiest it probably added up to a whole hell of a lot more than just one penny. I can see this discussion being transposed to the modern era and it goes something like this "hey, you see this here money? Who's on it?" to which the answer "A president". To which Jesus' stand-in admonishes "Ah yes, well then remit to the IRS the share due to the state...." Now imagine that the writing is rediscovered several thousand years into the future where scholars furiously debate which president must have been meant. This is why the argument misses the point. Rasiel Of course, the moral of the teaching doesn't depend on the exact type of coin it was...but that doesn't mean it's not an interesting question from a historical/numismatic perspective. It isn't very often that a specific coin is mentioned in an ancient narrative, so when it does happen, we are naturally curious to try to figure out which coin type it might have been. 2 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rasiel Posted February 22 · Member Share Posted February 22 3 hours ago, CPK said: Of course, the moral of the teaching doesn't depend on the exact type of coin it was...but that doesn't mean it's not an interesting question from a historical/numismatic perspective. It isn't very often that a specific coin is mentioned in an ancient narrative, so when it does happen, we are naturally curious to try to figure out which coin type it might have been. Ok, that's a different story. Assuming the event actually took place and that it was a portrait coin (a minority since most denarii in circulation would have been vintage Republican types (galleys, deities, etc.)) it's impossible to say whose mug it might have been but it could be probabilistically inferred through contemporary hoards, if there are any in that region, by tallying up the frequency of each emperor (and by extension Julius Caesar and the triumvirs). As a futile thought experiment I'd agree that the chances of it having been a Tibby would be fewer than the others in aggregate. For whatever that's worth lol! Rasiel 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DLTcoins Posted February 22 · Member Share Posted February 22 (edited) 15 hours ago, rasiel said: Ok, that's a different story. Assuming the event actually took place and that it was a portrait coin (a minority since most denarii in circulation would have been vintage Republican types (galleys, deities, etc.)) it's impossible to say whose mug it might have been but it could be probabilistically inferred through contemporary hoards, if there are any in that region, by tallying up the frequency of each emperor (and by extension Julius Caesar and the triumvirs). As a futile thought experiment I'd agree that the chances of it having been a Tibby would be fewer than the others in aggregate. For whatever that's worth lol! Rasiel Within the four corners of the biblical account (Mark 12:13-17, believed to the earliest gospel and the source for similar accounts in Matthew and Luke), the 'tribute penny' is explicitly a "denarius" (δηνάριον) bearing the "portrait" (εἰκὼν) and "inscription" (ἐπιγραφή) "of Caesar" (Καίσαρος), to whom "poll-tax" (κῆνσον, i e. 'tribute') is to be paid. A party of legalists representing both Mosaic law ("Pharisees") and Roman law ("Herodians") have conspired to entrap Jesus by asking him if it is "lawful" (ἔξεστιν) to pay the poll-tax. The only "Caesar" collecting taxes in Judaea during the ministry of Jesus was Tiberius, and the vast majority of Tiberius' denarii are of a single type. Some like to argue that there is scant evidence of denarii circulating in Judaea at all before about AD 70. This seems of little relevance with regard to the 'tribute penny' of scripture, which is what I think those in the market for a "tribute penny" are looking for. Edited February 22 by DLTcoins 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benefactor LONGINUS Posted February 23 · Benefactor Benefactor Share Posted February 23 (edited) Thanks for your interesting post, @Salomons Cat ! Edited February 23 by LONGINUS 9 5 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roman Collector Posted February 24 · Patron Share Posted February 24 (edited) I never let an opportunity to show my avatar coin pass! Tiberius, AD 14-37. Roman AR Denarius, 3.87 g, 18.5 mm, 5 h. Lugdunum, AD 16-37. Obv: TI CAESAR DIVI AVG F AVGVSTVS, laureate head, right. Rev: PONTIF MAXIM, Female figure seated right, holding long olive branch and inverted spear; legs of chair ornate, triple line below. Refs: RIC 28; BMCRE 42-44; RSC 16b; RCV 1763 var. Edited February 24 by Roman Collector I have OCD 6 1 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benefactor Ancient Coin Hunter Posted February 25 · Benefactor Benefactor Share Posted February 25 I am bidding on one in Leu auction 29 right now. I just raised my bid. Certainly I'll be rendering unto Caesar what is Caesar's and to Leu what is Leu's (e.g., the buyer's fee). 😇 1 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benefactor Ancient Coin Hunter Posted February 25 · Benefactor Benefactor Share Posted February 25 I won the Tribute Penny - woo hoo! 3 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qcumbor Posted February 25 · Supporter Share Posted February 25 5 hours ago, Ancient Coin Hunter said: I won the Tribute Penny - woo hoo! Can we see it ? Q 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benefactor Ancient Coin Hunter Posted February 25 · Benefactor Benefactor Share Posted February 25 OK. Tiberius, 14-37. Denarius (Silver, 18 mm, 3.68 g, 6 h), Lugdunum, group 2, circa 15-18. Obv. TI CAESAR DIVI AVG F AVGVSTVS Laureate head of Tiberius to right. Rev. PONTIF MAXIM Livia (as Pax) seated right on a chair with ornate legs set on low base, holding inverted spear in her right hand and olive branch in her left. BMC 44. Cohen 16. Giard 146. RIC 28. Ex-Leu auction Web 29, Lot 1844 February 25th, 2024 4 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ominus1 Posted February 25 · Patron Share Posted February 25 On 2/19/2024 at 11:04 PM, Octavius said: Tiberius with Livia as Pax reverse in gold and silver... 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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