Emperors of Rome - A (Chronological) Portrait Gallery

[AussieCollector]

44 minutes ago, CPK said:

I was thinking to take the time to do each of the Secessionist Empires (Gallic, Palmyrene, and later Britannic under Carausius) in roughly the chronological order in which they arose. As for the East/West split, since my idea was to follow a chronological timeline I would say we'd try to keep with that theme - maybe posting a couple different rulers at a time, as long as it wouldn't be too cumbersome.

Someone suggested we continue after the traditionally dated fall of the Western Roman Empire, into the Byzantine Empire. Since that would technically be considered a different "Empire", maybe a new Portrait Gallery topic would be called for (although, Byzantine coinage is not particularly noted for great portraiture!)

I guess whatever works. I'd vote for continuing into the Eastern Roman Empire after the fall of the WRE (which in my view is not a different empire, and nor should it be called the Byzantine Empire). But portraits do get difficult, and I'd love to see someone post a Constantine XI ;)

[Ancient Coin Hunter]

49 minutes ago, CPK said:

I was thinking to take the time to do each of the Secessionist Empires (Gallic, Palmyrene, and later Britannic under Carausius) in roughly the chronological order in which they arose. As for the East/West split, since my idea was to follow a chronological timeline I would say we'd try to keep with that theme - maybe posting a couple different rulers at a time, as long as it wouldn't be too cumbersome.

Someone suggested we continue after the traditionally dated fall of the Western Roman Empire, into the Byzantine Empire. Since that would technically be considered a different "Empire", maybe a new Portrait Gallery topic would be called for (although, Byzantine coinage is not particularly noted for great portraiture!)

With some of the folles you are right on target..

[Severus Alexander]

48 minutes ago, CPK said:

I was thinking to take the time to do each of the Secessionist Empires (Gallic, Palmyrene, and later Britannic under Carausius) in roughly the chronological order in which they arose. As for the East/West split, since my idea was to follow a chronological timeline I would say we'd try to keep with that theme - maybe posting a couple different rulers at a time, as long as it wouldn't be too cumbersome.

 I think that would work well. Sometimes the separated halves come together again too (e.g. under Theodosius). Probably we can do the west after Honorius in one group, or at most two?

48 minutes ago, CPK said:

Someone suggested we continue after the traditionally dated fall of the Western Roman Empire, into the Byzantine Empire. Since that would technically be considered a different "Empire", maybe a new Portrait Gallery topic would be called for (although, Byzantine coinage is not particularly noted for great portraiture!)

That would be me. ☺️ Yeah, maybe a new topic starting with Anastasius in the Byzantine subforum would make sense... although I agree with @AussieCollector that it's the same empire!

3 minutes ago, AussieCollector said:

and I'd love to see someone post a Constantine XI 😉

We have a member who can... 🤯

[Severus Alexander]

53 minutes ago, CPK said:

(although, Byzantine coinage is not particularly noted for great portraiture!)

That is part of what makes finding good or at least interesting Byzantine portraits a fun challenge! 😁

[kapphnwn]

Maximus Ar Denarius 235-238 AD Obv bust right draped seen from back Rv  Sacrificial implements RIC 1 3.38 grms 19 mm Photo by W Hansen

Still my coin but not for long 

[Jims,Coins]

We still have a long way to go, age of military anarchy 235-285 has a lot of emperors

What's next the emperors of 238 or each one?

Edited February 15, 2023 by Jims,Coins

[CPK]

50 minutes ago, Jims,Coins said:

We still have a long way to, age of military anarchy 235-285 has a lot of emperors

What's next the emperors of 238 or each one?

Tomorrow evening I think we might do Gordian I, Gordian II, Balbinus, and Pupienus all at once (since all of their coins are pretty scarce.) Then we'll do Gordian III (the opposite!), then maybe combine Philip I and II...etc. I kind of like combining the rarer Emperors so we have a better chance at getting more portraits.

@Severus Alexander and @AussieCollector I also agree, the divide between Roman and Byzantine is a modern concept and not one that would have been shared by the Byzantines (or shall I say Romaion) themselves. And, as I said I'd be glad to keep going as long as the interest is there! 🙂 It's been great so far - I feel like we've been creating the finest virtual Numismatic Portrait Museum in the world - they just keep coming! 👍

[Julius Germanicus]

What about continuing the idea with a series of polls in order to find THE single best portrait for each Emperor / Empress (including 2nd and 3rd place), so we would have a „definitive“ portrait gallery?

[dougsmit]

On 2/13/2023 at 7:52 PM, Severus Alexander said:

(Very grateful to @dougsmit for trading this coin to me!)

Yes, I do miss having one of those but not as much as I enjoy what I got in trade or miss the other item lost in the deal.  That is a problem with trading when the items 'lost' were not previously seen as expendable.  We each have coins the other would like to own but those rarely are the ones  we would consider letting go.  I'm glad the coin weeent to a 'good home'.  May all of our coins be so lucky as to find homes where they will be appreciated for something other than investment value. 

 

[dougsmit]

2 minutes ago, Julius Germanicus said:

What about continuing the idea with a series of polls in order to find THE single best portrait for each Emperor / Empress (including 2nd and 3rd place), so we would have a „definitive“ portrait gallery?

That strikes me as beyond impossible.  It would be worst with long term rulers that changed greatly in the time they were on the scene.  Caracalla is one example.  There is no single 'best'.  

[Ancient Coin Hunter]

57 minutes ago, dougsmit said:

That strikes me as beyond impossible.  It would be worst with long term rulers that changed greatly in the time they were on the scene.  Caracalla is one example.  There is no single 'best'.  

 

Great drachm of Caracalla Doug! Those are rare...

[Octavius]

4 hours ago, dougsmit said:

That strikes me as beyond impossible.  It would be worst with long term rulers that changed greatly in the time they were on the scene.  Caracalla is one example.  There is no single 'best'.  

 How about favorite reverses of each emperor? We tend to concentrate on portraits and often overlook the important messages the coins convey with their reverses.

[DonnaML]

2 hours ago, Octavius said:

 How about favorite reverses of each emperor? We tend to concentrate on portraits and often overlook the important messages the coins convey with their reverses.

There's plenty of time to decide before we reach the end of the portrait thread -- especially if we continue up to 1453! -- but I like that idea better than the idea of voting for a single favorite portrait of each Emperor. Not only is it a completely impractical task for any emperor who reigned more than a few years, as @dougsmit correctly points out, but it introduces an element of competitiveness into these forums (with winners and, implicitly, losers) that I think we don't need and might be unpleasant. Especially since it would probably reward those with the most  money to spend on the most superb portraits.

Much better for people to choose one, or a few, favorite reverses for each emperor, a judgment entirely independent of the quality of the portraits.

 

Edited February 15, 2023 by DonnaML

[Prieure de Sion]

I agree with @DonnaML on that one. We are here in the majority hobby collectors - I think. I would therefore find a competition rather inappropriate. Especially since the financial budget would then play a big role. And I would find it a pity if others would be excluded. 

Each coin is beautiful in its own way - whether 50 euros or 5000 euros. And every collector friend is dear to me. For me, a friendly community is preferable in which everyone is welcome.

[Ancient Coin Hunter]

29 minutes ago, DonnaML said:

 

"Much better for people to choose one, or a few, favorite reverses for each emperor, a judgment entirely independent of the quality of the portraits."

 

I also agree Donna and @Prieure de Sion. Reverses tell the story of the coin much better than the obverse. What kind of personification or god is being invoked, why? What event is portrayed? What imposing structure is being shown? All of this has to do with the message the emperor, empress, or personage was trying to communicate. I was struck by the number of FIDES MILITVM coins of Maximinus Thrax were shown in this thread.  At the end of the day the story was the opposite. The siege of Aquileia was the end of the Thracians as their army switched sides, so both Maximinus and Maximus were killed. And there are almost an infinite number of examples which touch on actual events of the time. 

Edited February 15, 2023 by Ancient Coin Hunter

[Severus Alexander]

Back on the other forum, @Curtisimo ran a number of competitions very successfully. I think they fostered camaraderie rather than anything unhealthy. As long as a portrait competition is designed to eliminate or at least reduce the influence of budget I think it would be totally fine. For example, in Curtis's "Imperator" competition there was a "best deal" aspect, which actually favoured cheaper coins.  For portraits, maybe grade could be explicitly ruled out as irrelevant, focusing on style. Or something. I'm not offering to take this on, I hasten to add! 😁

Meanwhile, this thread is great as is!  (I don't think anyone is proposing to change what we're doing here?)

Edited February 15, 2023 by Severus Alexander

[Jims,Coins]

Lets go back to the original post, Heres the list of:

 

AGE OF MILITARY ANARCHY 235 - 285 AD

 

*          EA                              MAXIMINUS I                                 AUGUSTUS 235 - 238 AD

            EAW                          PAULINA                                         WIFE

            EAS                            MAXIMUS                                        SON CAESAR 235 - 238 AD

 

            EB                               GORDIAN I AFRICANUS             AUGUSTUS 238 AD

           

            EC                              GORDIAN II AFRICANUS           AUGUSTUS 238 AD

 

            ED                              BALBINUS                                       AUGUSTUS 238 AD

 

            EE                               PUPIENUS                                        AUGUSTUS 238 AD

 

*          EF                               GORDIAN III AFRICANUS          CAES 238 AD AUG 238 - 244 AD

            EFW                           TRANQUILLINA                            WIFE

 

*          EG                              PHILIP I                                            AUGUSTUS 244 - 249 AD

            EGF                            JULIUS MARINUS                         FATHER

*          EGW                          OTACILIA SEVERA                      WIFE

 

*          EH                              PHILIP II                                          CAES 244 - 247 AD AUG 247 - 249 AD

 

            EI                                PACATIAN                                      AUGUSTUS 248 AD

 

            EJ                               JOTAPIAN                                       AUGUSTUS 248 AD

            EJU                            SILBANNACUS                               UNCLE

 

*          EK                              TRAJAN DECIUS                           AUGUSTUS 249 - 253 AD

*          EKW                          HERENNIA ETRUSCILLA          WIFE

 

*          EL                               HERENNIUS ETRUSCUS             CAES 250 - 253 AD AUG 253 AD

 *          EM                              HOSTILIAN                                     CAESAR & AUGUSTUS 253 AD

*          EN                              TREBONIANUS GALLUS            AUGUSTUS 251 - 253 AD 

 

*          EO                              VOLUSIAN                                       CAES 251 AD AUG 251 - 253 AD

 

*          EP                               AEMILIAN                                       AUGUSTUS 253 AD

            EPW                           CORNELIA SUPERA                     WIFE

 

            EQ                              URANIUA ANTONINUS               AUGUSTUS 253 - 254 AD

 

[CPK]

We had a great showing with Maximinus Thrax! 👍

Just a short PSA before moving to the next Emperor -

As we move into the rather messy Third Century (and beyond) I have been working with @Severus Alexander to come up with a more organized way to manage this thread - sorting/combining the different Emperors/usurpers, managing the transition to the next slot, etc. I hope to have it all sorted out shortly and will let you all know the details as soon as possible.

In the meantime...

We now move on to the next FOUR Emperors:

Gordian I, Gordian II, Balbinus, and Pupienus.

All of these men reigned in a single year - A.D. 238. Their coinage is fairly scarce and expensive but I know that there are some lurking out there! 😉

So let's see you favorite portrait coin(s) of any and all four Emperors!

 

[Roman Collector]

I'll have to sit this one out.

[DonnaML]

I guess I'll start. Not surprisingly, I have nothing from Gordian I or II.

But here are my matching denarii of Balbinus and Pupienus. (I know there are others here who have their matching antoniniani.)

Balbinus AR Denarius, April-June 238 AD, Rome mint. Obv. Laureate, draped, and cuirassed bust right, IMP C D CAEL BALBINVS AVG / Rev. Bearded Genius of the Senate, togate, standing front, head left, holding olive branch in extended right hand, and short transverse scepter in left hand, PM TRP COS II PP.  RIC IV-2 5, RSC III 20, Sear RCV III 8489 (ill.). 20 mm., 2.65 g. (Purchased from Kirk Davis April 2020; ex: Kirk Davis, Cat # 74, Fall 2019, Lot 83.)*

 

Pupienus, AR Denarius, April-June 238 AD, Rome Mint. Obv. Laureate, draped, and cuirassed bust right, IMP C M CLOD PVPIENVS AVG / Rev. Bearded Genius of the Senate, togate, standing front, head left, holding olive branch in extended right hand, and short transverse scepter in left hand, PM TRP COS II PP. RIC IV-2 5, RSC III 29 (ill.), Sear RCV III 8528 (ill.). 20 mm., 3.42 g. (Purchased from Herakles Numismatics, Dec. 2020; accompanied by old coin tickets.)*

*[Applicable to both the Balbinus and the Pupienus denarii.] The standing figure on the reverse of each coin was traditionally believed to be the respective Emperor himself, holding a parazonium (a short triangular sword typically found on coins depicting Virtus) in his left hand. That view is still reflected in OCRE (based on RIC) and at the British Museum website (based on BMCRE), as well as in the descriptions of all 14 coins of this type I found [as of early 2021] that have been sold since 2003, listed on acsearch. However, as Curtis L. Clay explained in a Coin Talk comment at https://www.cointalk.com/threads/balbinus-denarius.358987/#post-4410967,  in discussing a Balbinus example, the reverse “shows not the emperor on the reverse, but the Genius of the Senate, so his attribute has to be a short scepter, not a sword! A pity that the [British Museum] website perpetuates this old error (Genius misdescribed as emperor). The correction was made by [Andreas] Alföldi in his "Insignien und Tracht der römischen Kaiser" (Deutsches Archäologisches Institut, 1935)] . . ., followed by many others since then, including a recent article by R. Ziegler. On coins of Antoninus Pius, for example, the same togate figure is labeled GENIO SENATVS. His beard and bushy hairstyle on [the Balbinus] coin are exactly as required for the Genius, and exclude Balbinus. No surprise that the Genius of the Senate reappears on the coins of Balbinus and Pupienus, since they were senators themselves and were chosen to be emperors by the Senate.” Note that Sear equivocates, describing the reverse figure on both coins as either the Emperor or “the Genius of the Senate.” See Sear RCV III 8489 & 8528 (published in 2005). 

 

Edited February 16, 2023 by DonnaML

[Octavius]

 Not exactly matching, but here are Antoniniani of Pupienus (hope no little kid is blessed with that name here in the States!) , and Balbinus...

[Severus Alexander]

I have a denarius of Balbinus and an antoninianus of Pupienus. Both decent portraits. I like the BS "AMOR MVTVVS AVGG" reverse legend on the Pupienus.

3 hours ago, DonnaML said:

*[Applicable to both the Balbinus and the Pupienus denarii.] The standing figure on the reverse of each coin was traditionally believed to be the respective Emperor himself... However, as Curtis L. Clay explained in a Coin Talk comment at https://www.cointalk.com/threads/balbinus-denarius.358987/#post-4410967,  in discussing a Balbinus example, the reverse “shows not the emperor on the reverse, but the Genius of the Senate.... 

It's a shame that isn't Pupienus on the reverse... otherwise you'd have two great portraits on that coin, @DonnaML! 😁 (Really great coin!)

 

[mc9]

My only portraits ( 1 Denarius from Balbinus and 1 antoninianus from Pupienus ) :

 

 IMP C D CAE L BALBINVS AVG :  Laureate, draped and cuirassed bust right

VICTORIA AVGG :  Victory standing facing, head left, holding wreath in extended right hand and palm in left hand.

Denarius, Rome, AD 238, RIC 8 p.170

IMP CAES PVPIEN MAXIMVS AVG :  Radiate, draped and cuirassed bust right, seen from behind

AMOR MVTVVS AVGG : two clasped right hands

Antoninianus, Rome, AD 238, RIC IV 9b p.174

[Severus Alexander]

5 hours ago, CPK said:

As we move into the rather messy Third Century (and beyond) I have been working with @Severus Alexander to come up with a more organized way to manage this thread - sorting/combining the different Emperors/usurpers, managing the transition to the next slot, etc. I hope to have it all sorted out shortly and will let you all know the details as soon as possible.

Here's a draft schedule @CPK and I have come up with that takes us to the end of May, at which point we'd move to the Byzantine subforum beginning with Anastasius.  Feedback solicited!  That is, notes of any sorts of errors would be gratefully received (preferably by pm so as not to clutter the thread), as well as suggestions for substantive changes (preferably in the thread & so open to discussion).

We've tried to keep the variety and number of coins expected in each 2-day slot within a manageable range.  For example, that required dividing up the Valerianic dynasty and the Constantinian dynasty in some way... perhaps you'll like our way, or perhaps not. 😄 Let us have it! 🥊 However, I hasten to add, it will be CPK's decision in the end, as he's the thread Caesar!

Extremely rare personalities are omitted from the list, but would of course be welcome in an appropriate slot.

Edited February 16, 2023 by Severus Alexander

[Julius Germanicus]

Here is a Sestertius of Gordian I (8 specimens known with this reverse type): 

IMP CAES M ANT GORDIANUS AFR AVG
Laureate, draped, and cuirassed bust right of Gordian I
ROMAE AETERNAE S C
Roma seated left on throne, holding Victoriola and leaning on sceptre; shield at side
Sestertius, Rome, April 238
30,04 mm / 21,42 gr / 12h
RIC 10, Cohen 9, BMCRE 10, Banti 6, Sear 8451 

According to RIC, the reverse type and legend ROMAE ETERNAE, which also appears on Gordians unique Aureus (RIC 3), and his Denari (RIC 4) is alluding to the imperishable tradition of constitutionalism in Rome and harks back to the constitutional and pro-senatorial tone of the reign of Severus Alexander.

Edited February 16, 2023 by Julius Germanicus