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Gordian Antonianus: not in RIC?


Roerbakmix
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I'm helping a friend identifying some recently found antoniani. We were wondering whether this coin is a variety to RIC IV 217:

image.jpeg.54b15888e03180ab34fbd965fcffc840.jpeg

at first glance, it's RIC IV 217:

image.png.4dbd35b164b8d99897f18b64a29c335b.png

however, Victory on this coin is to the left, and not to the right. Is this a variety to RIC 217? 

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I'm not an expert for Gordian. Usually three years are much for a mule, but is this dating the last truth. What happened between 239 and 242 with the dies?

I have Roger Bland's thesis in my link list, but don't know if there is anything there.

https://discovery.ucl.ac.uk/id/eprint/10116536/1/Bland_thesis.pdf

Edited by shanxi
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RIC is definitely out of date

I checked the publication of Briac Michaux on the coinage of Gordian III (published 2020) and didn't find this type.
He will definitely be interested

Regards
Klaus
 

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11 hours ago, Roerbakmix said:

I'm helping a friend identifying some recently found antoniani. We were wondering whether this coin is a variety to RIC IV 217:

image.jpeg.54b15888e03180ab34fbd965fcffc840.jpeg

at first glance, it's RIC IV 217:

image.png.4dbd35b164b8d99897f18b64a29c335b.png

however, Victory on this coin is to the left, and not to the right. Is this a variety to RIC 217? 

No - if I remember correct there are mistakes in the RIC with copied text and/or example pictures. Let me explain. 

First. There are two Victory’s (left / right) and two bust types (bust normal / bust from behind). 

There are four RICs.

RIC 217b
RIC 217e

RIC 218b
RIC 218e

The b-Type is the normal bust, the e-type is the bust from behind. 

So I am not at the PC. I don’t remrmber is the RIC text copied false or the pictures. I think I remember the 217 was left and 218 was the right one. 

RIC 217b bust normal, Victory left 
RIC 217e bust behind, Victory left 

RIC 218b bust normal, Victory right
RIC 218e bust behind, Victory right

Take a look to NUMISTA - I think there are the pictures correct, but they copy the false text from RIC. Tomorrow I can make a look…

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The op does not seem to be listed in RIC. If I were cataloguing the coin, I would list it as a left-facing variant of 217 unless I had reason to think the coin was the product of a mint other than Antioch. I would go with 217 rather than 218 because legend should take precedence over the attitude of the figure.

The entry at OCRE apparently includes a typo. The image shows Victory (correctly) advancing right. The text states (incorrectly) "left":

OCRE_Gordian.JPG.d82aea6cb442aabb57890c7cd9fc37d7.JPG

In print, RIC 217 cites Cohen 362 (bust type b: radiate, cuirassed bust right) and the BM collection (bust type e: similar, seen from back).

A search of the British Museum's online catalogue returns four examples of RIC 217, all Victory right (bust type e), presumably the very coins referenced in RIC:

https://www.britishmuseum.org/collection/search?keyword=gordian&keyword=(217,&keyword=p.37)

The snippet below is from Cohen V, p. 60:

Cohen_362.JPG.b8d692225bbc65954c202fb863741bc9.JPG

 

Edited by DLTcoins
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Hello everyone, I received a mail this morning to inform me about this antoninianus and so I came to see it. 

For first I have to thank you for the comment about my book I really appreciate to see it. 

About this coin, I know 2 other specimens of this type (see picture 1) both from same dies and I didn't list them in my book because of an old talk with Thibaut Marchal who prove that those where ancien imitation 

By the way, in the Georges His collection was another coin from same obverse die (see picture 2)

To my eyes, the style of obverse die is quite strange.

Georges His and Triton V cataloguer did missattributed the PAX AVGVSTI to Antioch, 
R. Bland didn't add this coin in his theses but add a lot of other coins from the G. His's collection.
Gemini auction did attribute the Pax to Roman mule 

I don't believe in an official obverse die for this coin even more because the probability of finding 2 official hybrids of the same obverse die but different reverse is close to 0

best regards

a_gauche_2.jpg

georges his = melchner = gemini iv 2008 lot 459 partie  4.57g.jpg

Edited by Briac
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1 hour ago, Prieure de Sion said:

Hi Briac... have you any idea where I get your book - every place I look its sold out... 

unfortunately the book is out of print and the author of the photos of the coins in my own collection has made a complaint to the publishing house, which has decided to no longer publish the book.

I was thinking to do a second edition (corrected and completed) in english but I don't have time to do it actually

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11 hours ago, Roerbakmix said:

Hi @Briac, thanks for your reply, and glad you received my email. Welcome to the forum!

 

perhaps interesting to note that this coin was found in Belgium.
 

That's great, could you send me more details about this find?  it's funny to see Gordians appear near the house (I'm living near Charleroi)

Edited by Briac
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