Roerbakmix Posted November 24, 2022 · Member Share Posted November 24, 2022 I'm helping a friend identifying some recently found antoniani. We were wondering whether this coin is a variety to RIC IV 217: at first glance, it's RIC IV 217: however, Victory on this coin is to the left, and not to the right. Is this a variety to RIC 217? 9 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shanxi Posted November 24, 2022 · Supporter Share Posted November 24, 2022 The reverse is like RIC 202, 202 and 217 are both from Antioch 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roerbakmix Posted November 24, 2022 · Member Author Share Posted November 24, 2022 Interesting. RIC suggests a date of 238-239 for RIC 202 and 242-244 for RIC 217. Are you implying it's a mule? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shanxi Posted November 24, 2022 · Supporter Share Posted November 24, 2022 (edited) I'm not an expert for Gordian. Usually three years are much for a mule, but is this dating the last truth. What happened between 239 and 242 with the dies? I have Roger Bland's thesis in my link list, but don't know if there is anything there. https://discovery.ucl.ac.uk/id/eprint/10116536/1/Bland_thesis.pdf Edited November 24, 2022 by shanxi 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dwarf Posted November 24, 2022 · Member Share Posted November 24, 2022 RIC is definitely out of date I checked the publication of Briac Michaux on the coinage of Gordian III (published 2020) and didn't find this type. He will definitely be interested Regards Klaus 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roerbakmix Posted November 24, 2022 · Member Author Share Posted November 24, 2022 Thanks Klaus. Do you, by any chance, have his contact information? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orange Julius Posted November 24, 2022 · Member Share Posted November 24, 2022 Looks like an obverse legend variant of RIC IV 5 (238/239). Here’s mine with the same reverse. 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prieure de Sion Posted November 24, 2022 · Member Share Posted November 24, 2022 11 hours ago, Roerbakmix said: I'm helping a friend identifying some recently found antoniani. We were wondering whether this coin is a variety to RIC IV 217: at first glance, it's RIC IV 217: however, Victory on this coin is to the left, and not to the right. Is this a variety to RIC 217? No - if I remember correct there are mistakes in the RIC with copied text and/or example pictures. Let me explain. First. There are two Victory’s (left / right) and two bust types (bust normal / bust from behind). There are four RICs. RIC 217b RIC 217e RIC 218b RIC 218e The b-Type is the normal bust, the e-type is the bust from behind. So I am not at the PC. I don’t remrmber is the RIC text copied false or the pictures. I think I remember the 217 was left and 218 was the right one. RIC 217b bust normal, Victory left RIC 217e bust behind, Victory left RIC 218b bust normal, Victory right RIC 218e bust behind, Victory right Take a look to NUMISTA - I think there are the pictures correct, but they copy the false text from RIC. Tomorrow I can make a look… 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shanxi Posted November 25, 2022 · Supporter Share Posted November 25, 2022 Strangely, OCRE says "Victory left" for RIC 217 but RIC itself says "Victory right". RIC OCRE The same for RIC 218 but RIC 218 has the wrong reverse legend VICTORIA AVGVSTI 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dwarf Posted November 25, 2022 · Member Share Posted November 25, 2022 Please forget RIC It is either the thesis of Roger Bland and/or the publication of Michaux Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DLTcoins Posted November 25, 2022 · Member Share Posted November 25, 2022 (edited) The op does not seem to be listed in RIC. If I were cataloguing the coin, I would list it as a left-facing variant of 217 unless I had reason to think the coin was the product of a mint other than Antioch. I would go with 217 rather than 218 because legend should take precedence over the attitude of the figure. The entry at OCRE apparently includes a typo. The image shows Victory (correctly) advancing right. The text states (incorrectly) "left": In print, RIC 217 cites Cohen 362 (bust type b: radiate, cuirassed bust right) and the BM collection (bust type e: similar, seen from back). A search of the British Museum's online catalogue returns four examples of RIC 217, all Victory right (bust type e), presumably the very coins referenced in RIC: https://www.britishmuseum.org/collection/search?keyword=gordian&keyword=(217,&keyword=p.37) The snippet below is from Cohen V, p. 60: Edited November 25, 2022 by DLTcoins 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benefactor Ancient Coin Hunter Posted November 27, 2022 · Benefactor Benefactor Share Posted November 27, 2022 Very interesting piece. I hope it turns out to be somewhat unique. An Eastern provenance would make sense in this case I think, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Briac Posted November 27, 2022 · Member Share Posted November 27, 2022 (edited) Hello everyone, I received a mail this morning to inform me about this antoninianus and so I came to see it. For first I have to thank you for the comment about my book I really appreciate to see it. About this coin, I know 2 other specimens of this type (see picture 1) both from same dies and I didn't list them in my book because of an old talk with Thibaut Marchal who prove that those where ancien imitation By the way, in the Georges His collection was another coin from same obverse die (see picture 2) To my eyes, the style of obverse die is quite strange. Georges His and Triton V cataloguer did missattributed the PAX AVGVSTI to Antioch, R. Bland didn't add this coin in his theses but add a lot of other coins from the G. His's collection. Gemini auction did attribute the Pax to Roman mule I don't believe in an official obverse die for this coin even more because the probability of finding 2 official hybrids of the same obverse die but different reverse is close to 0 best regards Edited November 27, 2022 by Briac 5 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prieure de Sion Posted November 27, 2022 · Member Share Posted November 27, 2022 8 minutes ago, Briac said: For first I have to thank you for the comment about my book I really appreciate to see it. Hi Briac... have you any idea where I get your book - every place I look its sold out... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Briac Posted November 27, 2022 · Member Share Posted November 27, 2022 1 hour ago, Prieure de Sion said: Hi Briac... have you any idea where I get your book - every place I look its sold out... unfortunately the book is out of print and the author of the photos of the coins in my own collection has made a complaint to the publishing house, which has decided to no longer publish the book. I was thinking to do a second edition (corrected and completed) in english but I don't have time to do it actually 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roerbakmix Posted November 30, 2022 · Member Author Share Posted November 30, 2022 (edited) Hi @Briac, thanks for your reply, and glad you received my email. Welcome to the forum! perhaps interesting to note that this coin was found in Belgium. Edited November 30, 2022 by Roerbakmix Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Briac Posted November 30, 2022 · Member Share Posted November 30, 2022 (edited) 11 hours ago, Roerbakmix said: Hi @Briac, thanks for your reply, and glad you received my email. Welcome to the forum! perhaps interesting to note that this coin was found in Belgium. That's great, could you send me more details about this find? it's funny to see Gordians appear near the house (I'm living near Charleroi) Edited November 30, 2022 by Briac Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qcumbor Posted November 30, 2022 · Supporter Share Posted November 30, 2022 Hi @Briac, nice to see you here ! 1 hour ago, Briac said: it's funny to see Gordians appear near the house (I'm living near Charleroi) Could it be that you lost it yourself when it's fallen out of your pocket ? 😄 Q 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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