Briac

Link : salus IMP CAES M ANT GORDIANVS AVG Laureat, draped and cuirassed bust right seen from rear SALVS AVG salus standing left feeding snake Sestertius 19.81g, 30.69mm, 12h 2nd liberality 239 AD

congratulation for this it's only the 3rd specimen known RPC VII.2 #3507 https://rpc.ashmus.ox.ac.uk/coins/7.2/3507 please share a feedback with it on the website

you wrote "We need more facts than opinion, is it possible to have the coin really examine by a comitee of experts, not only by british musuem who still believe Proculus coins are midern fantasies or tooled coins !" the only person to believe that the coins are genuine being Pearson who works for the University of Glasgow... and the BM didn't took part to this study, only R. Abdy gave his advice in the Guardian (see https://www.theguardian.com/science/2022/nov/23/coins-study-suggests-fake-emperor-sponsian-was-real-say-scientists) it's far away of what you say that's why I remember you that the coins are conserved in Glasgow not in London ! I give you a comitee of expert with guys from Vienna, Switzerland, London, France, and many other places, even J. Mairat from Oxford and the ANS did publish answers about it ! actually we have 2 teams on the left the Pearson's team a geologist who give this conclusion "We are unable to devise any remotely plausible scenario that can account for the wear patterns" on the right hundreds of numismatist and historians who said "we need more datas and need to be more prudent since there is no evidences of genuiness" what is the best for you? do you ask to your mechanic which medecine you have to take for fight again leprosy?

yes the Uranium- Thorium- Helium analysis and when I asked to Pearson why he didn't used it he answered "No destructive tests allowed" Since I don't know the details of this method, I did accept his answer

all your comment are "фуфло" before talking you should read scientifical publications like D. Hollard 2001 "Sesterces coulés de Gordien III et Postume dans un trésor de l'Oise" or G. Aubin Les moules monétaires en terre cuite du IIIe siècle : chronologie et géographie you also should explain the existence of moulds like this one from my collection

which advices do you want? Have you read the document of 1923 I shared on page 2? or the analysis of Nick Vaneerdewegh in page 3? Maybe you would also read K. Vondrovec from the Kunsthistorisches Museum of Vienna, he told me this in 2010 "Just by looking at this entire ensemble I would say they are definitely modern (that is 17th / 18th cc.) forgeries. As far as I see all coins of this kind came up at around the same time and have comt into various coin cabinets at a later time." by the way, those coins are not in BM but in the Ashmolean Museum, you should be really more rigorous if you want to intervene in such a subject ...

gallienus aureus with "low" gold purity have high silver and low bronze content in the 6% (something like 94 gold / 5 silver / 1 copper ), in Sponsianus coinage we can see than silver and copper are similar, so it's also something different, gold is not all when you want to study metal composition... and take care of metal density density of Gold 19.3 density of silver 10.5 density of copper 8.9

it's maybe because I had some of those coins in hand, also because when I asked explain to P. Pearson he didn't answer anything serious in his explains he is talking of moulds but he believe that those moulds where used horizontally, but archeology proof that those where vertically used. he say than coins have been casted different clay moulds made from same matrix but doesn't take care than 1 matrix will provide 2 similar moulds so the coins should have similar shapes he doesn't answer to this "the realy few ancient cast coins finded in same hoard and made with same original matrix are exactly the same, (see D. Hollard 2001 Sesterces coulés de Gordien III et Postume dans un trésor de l'Oise) I have picture of 3 so called "gordian gold medallions (Paris, Vienna, Glasgow), they are all different, 4 "sponsiani" all different, 4 "Philippus" all different. how do you explain the different shapes is there is only 1 matrix? this is typicaly what a modern faker would do to deceive the vigilance of a collector/expert but it have no meaning for circulation coins." he don't give any serious explain about the "traces of the mould" (remember it's a clay mould! ) on a coin which spent 14 centuries in the ground! my favourite of all I asked according with your results, Gordian 2.77% silver 0.54% copper (higly purified for the sponsian serie) Philip around 5% silver and 0.5% copper Sponsianus 3.83% silver and 3.39% copper so they managed to maintain the separation of gold and silver but they did not know how to remove the copper which is nevertheless lighter and therefore easier to separate? he answered "I am not a metallurgist" so with the same thought process, you can shoot your neighbor in the head and tell the court "I'm not a doctor I didn't know it would kill her" If you want to talk about coins and metal composition you need to have a minimum of knowledge in metallurgy and purification of metal

prudence dictates that in the absence of proof, currencies should be considered at least doubtful. to date there is no evidence, no archaeological discovery, proving that these coins can be 1800 years old, all we can say is that the coins were buried for an indefinite period and exhumed at the beginning of the 18th century.

how could you proove that something doesn't exist? it's impossible to proove that sponsian didn't exist but the scientifical way is simple if you can't proof the genuiness of an item, you have to be prudent and give it as fake actually we have some hints but no evidences so it's totally crazy to publish somethink like "sponsian was en emperor" by the way more than 90% of the actually known gold coins have been finded in the 2 last centuries but no other sponsian you can see gold coins from Romania and Ukrain finded by metal detectors on instagram or in Violity auction each day but there is nothing like this. the purity of gold is far away of the genuine roman gold coins of same period, weight are incompatible with the roman system, variation of weight is impossible for coins from same types and so same value ! those are scientifical arguments I don't know any dubble aureus for Philipp but I know 3 for Gordian those are 7.27, 10.19 and 9.56g so the delta between heavyest ans lightest is 2.92g (around 28%) for Sponsianus type 2 from 6.91 to 12.55, delta 5.6 g (around 44.6%) type 3 from 12.5 to 22.73, delat 10.23 ( around 45%)

you confuse evidence with clues and lines of thought, these are totally different things, proof is argued and irrefutable, here the authors themselves question their clues, this clearly shows that there is no proof! the title "Authenticating coins of the ‘Roman emperor’ Sponsian" say clearly than authors have their own theory before and was trying to confirm it. as I told on cointalk (where Pearson is but doesn't answer anymore) the 1st fault have been made by the authors when they refered in title "roman emperor" this mention tells us directly that the authors believe in the existence of Sponsianus and do not make the difference between an emperor (authority recognized by the senate) and a usurper who only ruled a tiny part of the empire for a very short time and I find it surprising that this kind of publication comes out shortly after the publication of a book by Pearson (a geologist) on the crisis of the Third Century which is struggling to sell even on amazon you can get discount of 17% for it but not on Ikka Syvanne's books which is an historian...

just give 1 serious and scientifical proof, it will be funny... authors themselves saied the authors themselves say that - we do not have data allowing us to estimate the time that the monanies have spent in the ground - that traces of wear can be copied easily (Becker himself did it!) their main argument is that they can't imagine any other situation, that doesn't make it a proof, just a theory

저자가 보여주는 것은 발톱과 긁힌 자국에 있는 외피와 응고물입니다. 기사를 읽었다면 질문을 하지 않았을 것입니다!

Yes it's still in transit, blocked at the border... and you are right, it's from UK it should be here soon

For my christmas goft, my dad dii offer me this coin and thought it was the reference RPC VII.2 #773, hopefully Santa blocked the coin at the border so he did "only" show me the picture on TV... the RPC VII.2 #773 have this obverse ΑΥΤ Κ Μ ΑΝΤ ΓΟΡΔΙΑΝΟⳞ but on my new coin, the obverse is ΑΥΤ Κ Μ ΑΝΤ ΓΟΡΔΙΑΝΟⳞ Α I'm so waiting for my christmass gift which is RPC VII.2 online #773A an unique and unpublished type and the only coin known with this obverse legend

may I ask why don't you use the RPC reference? A nice specimen of a scarce type, congratulation https://rpc.ashmus.ox.ac.uk/coins/7.2/1444

I hope it's not only for imperial coins because for Gordian the most iconic is on a provincial coin, I share pictures of my own specimen but you can see best specimens on RPC online https://rpc.ashmus.ox.ac.uk/coins/7.2/2759 Andromeda seated l., seen from rear, chained feet, arms raised; robe hung up on a tree; below, wolf l.

hello guys, my new cheap find with this antoninianus of Gordian III minted in Roma with error in reverse legend CONCORDIA MLIT (Sic!) instead of CONCORDIA MILIT, second specimen known (same reverse die) got it in auction for 30€+ fees (around 45€ all included)

even in famous auction houses you can find fakes in individual lots I remember a modern provincial medallion sold by Roma Numismatics and later by CNG (withdrawn by CNG when I send them a mail)

I saw some realy good fakes in provincial too., especially in Thracian and moesian

check the VIRTVS AVG I bought the fake, the picture is mine and the coins is actually in Hungary with the genuine, Even is my picture is of quite low quality you can see the scratches on both coins on reverse (between shield and leg) or on obverse (between CAE and head). those coins are perfect copies, the picture on ebay are the actual pictures of the copy

yes I'm sure those are 2 different coins my friend in france did confirm he stil have his own at the bank

price doesn't matters, I just bought an antoninian today in auction for 30€ which is only the second specimen known and I'm sure it's a genuine since I can see the crystalisation of the silver (and also because I have been fooled by the VIRTVS AVG here over) buying fakes is sometime a good deal to since the most important is knowledge 😉

I was in the same situation when I bought to this dealer the VIRTVS... I thought I had finally been able to buy the coin previoulsy sold by Solidus but a few times later, I saw a publication on a facebook group and with exactly the same coin so I talked with the owner. By the way I know him from about 10 years on FAC so I did send him the copy for study and metal analysis, we are waiting for results now