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The Anders Collection - Who Is Anders?


Furryfrog02
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I won a coin this week from one of my favorite sellers on ebay. While I was looking up comparisons on acsearch, I found the exact coin I had just purchased but it was previously sold by Roma in an auction on the 8th of September. The auction was "The Anders Collection". I have been trying to find out who Anders is/was but I am coming up with nothing beyond  mentions of this sale. 
Can anyone enlighten me further? I'd appreciate it!

Here is the coin I won. I was happy to add a new Nike to my collection 🙂
322452559_SicilytheMamertinoiTrichalkonApolloandNike.png.0396ec20dc48bfe3ae7c6c81f4752044.png

Sicily, the Mamertinoi
Æ Trichalkon
Messana
circa 220-200 BC
Obverse: Laureate head of Apollo to right; lyre(?) behind
Reverse: Nike standing to left, holding wreath and palm; III (mark of value) to left, [ΜΑΜ]ΕΡΤΙΝ-ΩΝ to left.
Revf: CNS 47; HGC 2, 854 (tripod behind). 7.45g, 27mm, 7h

Tickets that came with it:
1761814463_SicilytheMamertinoiTrichalkonApolloandNikeTicket.jpg.d10709b313e235ac5244bde3f25b50c7.jpg

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I'm sure you saw  there was a biggish Roma sale recently called that. Greek and Roman stuff. There was no description at all of who  it was in the ecatalogue, so  I assume  it yet another of these "Bob's Collection of", where they  put  up real  or  imagined names or  initials.

The owner of  Roma  posts here occasionally, so  maybe  pm  him? I wouldn't  imagine  you'd learn much but...

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4 minutes ago, Deinomenid said:

I'm sure you saw  there was a biggish Roma sale recently called that. Greek and Roman stuff. There was no description at all of who  it was in the ecatalogue, so  I assume  it yet another of these "Bob's Collection of", where they  put  up real  or  imagined names or  initials.

The owner of  Roma  posts here occasionally, so  maybe  pm  him? I wouldn't  imagine  you'd learn much but...

Thanks. I kind of assumed it may be like that but figured it wouldn't hurt to ask the more knowledgeable members here 🙂

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1 hour ago, Furryfrog02 said:

I won a coin this week from one of my favorite sellers on ebay. While I was looking up comparisons on acsearch, I found the exact coin I had just purchased but it was previously sold by Roma in an auction on the 8th of September. The auction was "The Anders Collection". I have been trying to find out who Anders is/was but I am coming up with nothing beyond  mentions of this sale. 
Can anyone enlighten me further? I'd appreciate it!

Here is the coin I won. I was happy to add a new Nike to my collection 🙂
322452559_SicilytheMamertinoiTrichalkonApolloandNike.png.0396ec20dc48bfe3ae7c6c81f4752044.png

Sicily, the Mamertinoi
Æ Trichalkon
Messana
circa 220-200 BC
Obverse: Laureate head of Apollo to right; lyre(?) behind
Reverse: Nike standing to left, holding wreath and palm; III (mark of value) to left, [ΜΑΜ]ΕΡΤΙΝ-ΩΝ to left.
Revf: CNS 47; HGC 2, 854 (tripod behind). 7.45g, 27mm, 7h

Tickets that came with it:
1761814463_SicilytheMamertinoiTrichalkonApolloandNikeTicket.jpg.d10709b313e235ac5244bde3f25b50c7.jpg

Furry 🐸, There are so many collectors & dealers who are known only regionally that have sold large consignments of coins at auction, including myself. I too have faced the dilemma of being identified by name or not & decided not to be identified. I'm sure any collector in a state other than NY who saw the provenance "Al Kowsky Collection", would ask who is this guy 🤔?

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43 minutes ago, CPK said:

Nice coin @Furryfrog02, but good luck trying to get more information on the collection provenance! I wonder what is the point of giving a name like that if nobody knows, or will tell, anything about it. 🤔

Agreed. I wouldn't have thought anything about it but since there was a "collection" attached to it, I assumed that it was some sort of provenance that was known.

Honestly, I bought the coin because I like coins with Nike/Victory and it was something I didn't have. This little mystery is just an added bonus? 😛

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I think sometimes it could be a good marketing strategy, rather than selling a coin with no history (in regards to who owned it), if it had a name attached to it, new collectors might be more likely to buy it. I think the name (even if the previous collector was a nobody) makes the coin more bougie and maybe adds to the premium, like adding a few worthless flakes of gold on to a steak!

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • Benefactor

One of the two coins I bought at the most recent CNG auction was described as being part of the "Conti Collection." But when I googled that phrase in the context of numismatics, every single result was another CNG coin description. So it's clearly just a name CNG came up with in order to help market somebody's collection.  And the original purchase history, where given, is all within the last 15 years, so it's not exactly an old collection. I really find it difficult to believe that attaching what appears to be a meaningless collection name to a coin will drive the hammer price up in any material way. But a number of major auction houses do this, so I suppose they must think it works.

Edited by DonnaML
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Put yourself in the shoes of your older self. You’re at the point of selling your collection that you have spent countless hours (and not an insubstantial sum of money) assembling.

What will you do now - let the auction house sell your coins like they’re common potatoes, or do you think you may want some token recognition of your collection for posterity, vanity, or perhaps for some small measure of immortality?

Some may not care beyond the point they have decided to sell. Others want their collection sold as a named collection, not unlike giving a book a title, however plain or opaque it might be.

In the case of the Anders Collection, this was the precise formula requested by the consignor, whose own name this reflects.

The second thing to understand, which is perhaps obvious after a little introspection, is that many collectors have no desire to have their full name made public (e.g. BCD, to name but one prominent example), nor their life history, nor what they had for breakfast. This can be for any number of reasons, but the most common thought process is that it’s rarely a good idea to announce to the world that you’ve suddenly come into a lot of money. 🙂

 

Edited by Richard Beale
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I asked similar provenance questions in this and the numismatikforum.de forum recently. One of the insights that came from the German forum is that there are smaller individual dealers or wholesalers who assemble themes (for instance, Iberian coins), then consign them to a well-known auctioneer. Although these come to market as the “X collection,” a more accurate term would be the “X assortment.”

For myself, I’ve taken the view not to value a provenance that I cannot verify. So I’m delighted to own a coin formerly in the Gell-Mann collection, and have traced another coin back to a Chapman auction in the 1920s. But I treat unverifiable provenance like other marketing and grading descriptions offered by dealers, and do not document it in my collection.

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Provenance is becoming much more important now than ever before and this is one reason why so many collections are being named.  As Rich points out there are reasons why some wish to remain somewhat anonymous.  For me, my collections have never been world class so I have no issues with anyone knowing I'm selling anything.  CNG is about to sell my antiquities collection and it will bear my name.  And when its time to part with my coins the same.  It's true, there is some ego there as well as that sense of immortality Rich also suggested!

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Speaking of provenance, I do really wish VCoins and ma-shops sellers would provide more info. I understand that some may wish to disclose from where they purchase, but it really helps those who buy the coins. Case in point - sellers reselling coins picked up at a recent auction. I understand sellers building their inventory this way, and at times I've purchased coins knowing that I'm paying a premium over a recent auction - with the feeling that I really wanted the coin, but had missed that auction and the seller was not providing me a way to still procure it with of course a fee for himself.

Here's an example of a coin I purchased with a useful provenance. I honestly have no idea who Burstein was, but it's nice to know.

678A3521-Edit.jpg.7f01e8cb3fbd0f6106897f0cbb13533d.jpg

Coel-Syria. Chalkis. Ptolemaios as Tetrarch, son of Mennaeus
85-40 BCE 20.79mm 4.49g
Obverse: Laureate head of Zeus right, with countermark of head right
Reverse: ΠΤΟΛΕΜΑΙΟΥ / ΤΕΤΡΑΡΧΗ, eagle flying right, holding wreath in beak; monogram above tail
HGC 9, 1441
Ex Marcel Burstein
Ex Colosseum Coin Exchange 31 (February 1988), lot 20
Ex Marc Breitsprecher

 

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When my collection gets sold, if I'm still alive and able to direct it, I definitely want it sold under my own name, and as an added wrinkle, with my own personal notes on many lots, for a couple reasons. As for my name, I want people to be able to easily be able to find and reference my collection afterwards. The notes are largely because I have several types that are unpublished or, if published, have never or rarely appeared correctly attributed in the sales record, and many coins have interesting provenances or have been published somewhere and I want all of my coins to be properly attributed, described and provenanced. I've put a lot of effort into tracking down old provenances and correctly attributing my coins and really figuring out everything about them and I want all of this reflected in a sale. I bought many of these coins at auction from these same auction houses with missing provenances or misattributions so I think my insistence on correctness is not unwarranted.

Thankfully, the couple of auction houses I've spoken with regarding this seem more than happy to accept these terms if they get my consignment but hopefully I've got many more years of collecting before I need to actually commit to one or the other.

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13 hours ago, Richard Beale said:

many collectors have no desire to have their full name made public (e.g. BCD, to name but one prominent example),

 

From a buyer's viewpoint, in terms of whether attaching a collection name to a coin adds (or should add) any value to that coin, I think there's a huge difference between the made-up names often applied to groups of coins (which sometimes don't even represent a single collection) and the actual initials of an extremely well-known collector. Whose full name -- not that it was ever really a secret to anyone who ever bought a coin from his collection that arrived with a ticket bearing his name, or indeed to anyone who knows how to do a Google search -- is now completely public ever since the release earlier this year of the video interview with him concerning his library. See the thread at https://www.numisforums.com/topic/653-bcd-interview/#comment-11357 .  So there's no longer any point in a dealer's neglecting to provide his full name in describing a lot from his collection.

By contrast, I agree with others that (again considered only from a buyer's point of view) an anonymized name applied to an unknown collection of recent vintage adds absolutely zero value to a coin that doesn't already exist from the fact that it can be described as "purchased from Roma Numismatics Auction No. X, on Y date, Lot Z," together with any previous provenance provided. That kind of anonymized name is really no more meaningful than the sort of old-fashioned circumlocutions one still often sees in the world of antiquities dealers, such as "From the collection of a gentleman, formed in London in the 1980s."

 

Edited by DonnaML
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8 hours ago, KenDorney said:

Provenance is becoming much more important now than ever before and this is one reason why so many collections are being named.  As Rich points out there are reasons why some wish to remain somewhat anonymous.  For me, my collections have never been world class so I have no issues with anyone knowing I'm selling anything.  CNG is about to sell my antiquities collection and it will bear my name.  And when its time to part with my coins the same.  It's true, there is some ego there as well as that sense of immortality Rich also suggested!

Well if it is any stroke to your ego...I own several ex: @KenDorney pieces and have proudly put that in my notes. 
Whenever the "FurryFrog" collection goes up for sale after my untimely demise....or better yet, after FFIVN and his siblings cash in many decades from now...your name will be attached to several of the coins 🙂

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2 hours ago, Furryfrog02 said:

Well if it is any stroke to your ego...I own several ex: @KenDorney pieces and have proudly put that in my notes. 
 

Me too! Here are a couple of my favorites among the half-dozen coins I have from Ken:

image.jpeg.34d81fb8c598c24b7362ae59fb6fffd4.jpeg

image.jpeg.f898e772e58daff978e1fb9b2030a0d7.jpeg

 

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I think Ken nailed it. The anonymous person names are not about auction houses trying to drive up the value of the coins, it's about the collector themselves taking pride in seeing their coins presented in a public venue. The collector knows who "Anders" is and when he or she want to look up their old collection they have a way to do it.

I agree that sometimes auction houses make up fictitious horde or collection names as a marketing ploy, but those usually have a Hollywood exaggeration to them that makes them easy to spot.

John

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