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Best of Type Battle Decided! - Constantius II - Fallen Horseman - Alexandria - RIC VIII 72


Results! Best of Type Battle - Constantius II Fallen Horseman - Alexandria RIC VIII 72  

15 members have voted

  1. 1. Results! Best of Type Battle - Constantius II Fallen Horseman - Alexandria RIC VIII 72 - See the "FINAL ENTRANTS AND VOTING REFERENCE POST" toward the bottom of PAGE 1 for a summary of the coins entered!

    • Coin 1 - Orange Julius
      2
    • Coin 2 - Maridvnvm
      8
    • Coin 3 - Broucheion
      2
    • Coin 4 - Tejas
      3

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  • Poll closed on 10/12/2022 at 06:06 AM

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One of the post types on FORVM that I always thought was fun but not all that popular there were the Best of Type competitions. These are friendly posts that feature coins of one specific type, inviting posters to add their example coins. At the end of a time period, say a week or so, there would be a vote to crown a champion coin. That winning coin reigns until there is a challenger. 

These competitions are supposed to be a fun way to see lots of coins of a type, discuss their differences!, and give one lucky owner temporary bragging rights.

Anyway, I'd like to give one of these a try... these competitions are most fun if common types are chosen so many people can participate.

So.. I've chosen a coin of mine which is certainly NOT best of type (as I know there are many better out there!) but a good starting point as many of us have one.

Let's see who has the best Constantius II RIC VIII 72 from Alexandria!

Choose your ONE best of the type to post! I also encourage anyone to jump in with commentary on what makes each pretty, special and interesting. 

For this first one, I'm thinking that I'll follow up in 5 days (Saturday) and try to add a poll with the user names of those who post a coin, then give another few days (3?) for voting. 

ConstantiusIIAlexandriaRICVIII-72.JPG.3fedd05cef2c0fadacf3e0c72add9284.JPG 

Constantius II - FEL TEMP REPARATIO - ALE Delta - Alexandria - RIC VIII 72

 

Edited by Orange Julius
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  • Orange Julius changed the title to Best of Type Battle - Constantius II - Fallen Horseman - Alexandria - RIC VIII 72
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Posted (edited)

Edit: sorry, didn't read the fine print. Didn't realize it had to be a specific issue.

I don't really collect in this area, but I wanted one example of this very interesting type.

331A0734-Edit.jpg.6a68823e5b856b349d638087870191b5.jpg

Constantius II as Augustus
AE Cententionalis/Fallen Horseman
351-354 CE
24.08mm 5.97g
Obverse: DN CONSTAN-TIVS PF AVG, pearl diademed draped cuirassed bust right
Reverse: FEL TEMP RE-PARATIO soldier speaing fallen horseman left, gamma in left field, SMKS in exergue
RIC VIII 92 Cyzicus
Ex Marc Breitsprecher

Edited by kirispupis
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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, kirispupis said:

Edit: sorry, didn't read the fine print. Didn't realize it had to be a specific issue.

I don't really collect in this area, but I wanted one example of this very interesting type.

331A0734-Edit.jpg.6a68823e5b856b349d638087870191b5.jpg

Constantius II as Augustus
AE Cententionalis/Fallen Horseman
351-354 CE
24.08mm 5.97g
Obverse: DN CONSTAN-TIVS PF AVG, pearl diademed draped cuirassed bust right
Reverse: FEL TEMP RE-PARATIO soldier speaing fallen horseman left, gamma in left field, SMKS in exergue
RIC VIII 92 Cyzicus
Ex Marc Breitsprecher

That’s ok! this is a first run at this and we are all excited about our coins. I really like the detail on your horses head and the way you can still see the horse’s back leg over the shield. While not in the running for the type, thanks for sharing the great coin!

Edited by Orange Julius
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51 minutes ago, CPK said:

I've got a Constantius II Fallen Horseman, but it's RIC VIII 135 Antioch...

16 minutes ago, sand said:

Same here.

I picked Alexandria as (along with Antioch) they had the best artistry of the time (in my opinion!). Fallen horseman of Antioch would be a great battle too as there were some pretty coins minted there! 

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image.png.f9917fdec8a2a9e54a9e069af2cca41e.png

I buyed this Coin beginning this year - I dont remember and sure - it was a Centenionalis from Flavius Julius Constantius - but the other details I have never in my database - because I sold this coin two weeks later. Hope the new owner enjoy a long time this coin.

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Here is my best and only coin of that particular type.

I like this coin, because of the distinctive barbarian shown on the reverse. Most coins seem to show a Parthian with distinctive hairstyle and decorated trousers. The barbarian on my coin seems to be modelled on a different ethnic group.

5496.png

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So many great examples. This is a coin that’s encountered in the low grades pretty regularly, but it’s nice to see so many high quality examples. Maridvnvm is in the lead IMHO. I love the chocolatey patina and the detail on the horse’s decorative armor.

The die engravers at Alexandria were indeed skilled. But my favorites from the period are the engravers in Antioch and Constantinople. I see a lot of similarities in their style. I wonder if some of the eastern ateliers shared engravers or had some sort of common training. Interesting to speculate about. I’d love to read a good, thorough book on the training and culture of the die engravers. 

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, dougsmit said:

Very nice!  The matter of barbarian identity is a subject that has been discussed for several years now but I'm not aware of any definitive study or even listing of which styles are found from which mints.  I am particularly taken by the portrait style variations of these four coins.

rx7020b00720lg.jpg.e5bfcc7dc3b0f4de2b698747a5333fae.jpgrx7030bb2257.jpg.8192105efe637b8ae949c82d947d6722.jpgrx7035bb2970.jpg.59e21188cad6c61dd538841aeb08a30d.jpgrx7037bb3089.jpg.0a66823977f282914357e32fe0f1c957.jpg

Finally my later coin with .S. in the field shows a different hair/beard style and also has the dotted line running down the pants leg which suggested a stirrup rope to some.   The belief in stirrups by the late Victor Failmezger is what led to my starting of my coin web page in 1997 with its first subject:

https://www.forumancientcoins.com/dougsmith/notsev.html

I have not heard anything new about stirrups since Victor died.  While I believe he was correct, I imagine the idea died with him. Everyone knows the Romans did not use stirrups and it is too much for scholars to believe that an Eastern mint die cutter who had seen them in use by the enemy would have included them in his design. 

rx7040bb1602.jpg.96db86df81f630edad117e84a5087650.jpg

 

6 hours ago, maridvnvm said:

The portrait styles do vary quite a bit in this issue

RI_170al_img.jpg

RI_170eo_img.jpg

RI_170bi_img.jpg

A great run of coins! As for the portrait style on these, I’ve always really liked it. The portrait has always reminded me of (musician) Stephen Malkmus. Haha… 😂 

74DF2450-FCD9-462A-842F-B5FC6BF78398.jpeg.6e042cc8d6cdfa23481f4661722d32bc.jpeg

The details and differences on these coins are endlessly fascinating to me. …here’s my slightly earlier “S” series coin… but from Antioch that, with the right eye, could look to have something like stirrups.

ConstantiusIIAntiochRICVIII-148.JPG.8925ef5e9b5fe64cf9ea0d56390b7ecb.JPG

@dougsmit Love your lineup there, and the discussion (I’m going to go check for stirrups on my coins tonight!) but you forgot to choose The One! …if you only have one coin to run anchor in a relay race… what number coin is it? Which gladiator are you sending to the battle?

Edited by Orange Julius
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21 hours ago, Orange Julius said:

you forgot to choose The One! …if you only have one coin to run anchor in a relay race… what number coin is it? Which gladiator are you sending to the battle?

My one favorite Constantius II is my Amiens mint FH3.  I like the style and it is not a common coin.

rx6328bb2807.jpg.b831ca5bc35282543dc58896b0d0dc7f.jpg

 

However my favorite single Falling Horseman is easily the Amiens of Constantius Gallus with severe damage to the reverse by a die clash.  I know most people would shun this coin due to condition but I do ask to see the ones anyone has that are better.  There are over 2200 variations of FH coins and 15 mints plus barbarous ones.  Amiens is one of the least common (Trier is the other) and Gallus is less often seen than Constantius II.  On top of that, the style is cartoon level great making it THE coin of the thousands of choices.  If I have to pick one from the Alexandria mint specimens, it would be my ALEA due to the long, long face.  

rx7175bb3070.jpg.84b22df1905804f54f1413b8dd92d9d3.jpg

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, dougsmit said:

My one favorite Constantius II is my Amiens mint FH3.  I like the style and it is not a common coin.

rx6328bb2807.jpg.b831ca5bc35282543dc58896b0d0dc7f.jpg

 

However my favorite single Falling Horseman is easily the Amiens of Constantius Gallus with severe damage to the reverse by a die clash.  I know most people would shun this coin due to condition but I do ask to see the ones anyone has that are better.  There are over 2200 variations of FH coins and 15 mints plus barbarous ones.  Amiens is one of the least common (Trier is the other) and Gallus is less often seen than Constantius II.  On top of that, the style is cartoon level great making it THE coin of the thousands of choices.  If I have to pick one from the Alexandria mint specimens, it would be my ALEA due to the long, long face.  

rx7175bb3070.jpg.84b22df1905804f54f1413b8dd92d9d3.jpg

Great coins @dougsmit! I’m always envious of your Amiens and Trier FH, especially the Gallus coins. I have two Constantius II FHs from Amiens but NO FH coins at all from Trier. Two of my most disappointing eBay loss sleeper coins were poorly photographed fallen horseman… one was a beautiful Trier CII and the other a Magnentius(!). Both looked to be under the radar and had little interest. At the last second, I dumped in huge bids to cut off others with the same idea… and of course I was not the only bidder with the same idea and lost to someone bidding to out bid the bidder thinking he’s outbidding last second bidders (whew)! Ugh. Next time, no mercy!

Those are beauties @bcuda and @akeady! I love when you can find fallen horseman that still show silvering. Thanks for showing them. Showcasing coins of other mints along these Alexandrian coins gives a good opportunity to appreciate the differing styles. When you see enough of these you can start to be pretty accurate at guessing mints and sometimes even the series (Ex. Amiens and Constantinople hairstyles have distinct characteristics!). 

I’m looking forward to a good battle/vote. Lots of nice Alexandrians in the ring… I think there’s going to be a diverse vote as each of these coins have strengths!

 

Edited by Orange Julius
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Posted (edited)

A summary of eligible Constantius II Alexandria RIC VIII 72 coins to this point in order of posting:

ConstantiusIIAlexandriaRICVIII-72.JPG.9097210a9e12416f4208c79abe4fec3e.JPG
F974B0BF-DF68-4465-9C93-D1D197C0694A.jpeg.161073cf57608293894509669e0a8d40.jpeg
279DF934-29D4-4C97-9359-6399F82E4551.png.ddfbb8d83f2e6d7331514c4598c8c5de.png
6D609D08-9A09-40E8-81DE-137C448D682B.png.8cd0ca77293ae4f6bee1e88dbf488ae3.png
23891263-15AB-4C38-A088-65BAEFB98FAE.jpeg.5b396a2725ce92dc3cbb94a6966a22ac.jpeg

(Notes: A couple posters have added several other excellent examples to further the fun! but have identified the coins above as their one entry. Others have added coins of other mints to show off the the great variation between mints. While not eligible for this battle, I appreciate them being added here! Keep the coins and discussion coming! Thanks!)

Edited by Orange Julius
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Posted (edited)

Last call on Constantius II Alexandria RIC VIII 72 entries into the Best of Type Battle! 

I’ll be posting the poll question for voting this evening after my monsters… I mean kids… go to bed. Likely around 10:30pm central (US).

I know there are a lot more of these out there! @Randygeki where ya at?!

Edited by Orange Julius
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10 hours ago, Nerosmyfavorite68 said:

I'm afraid I have no entries to offer, the last Constantius II Centenionalis I got was c. 1994, and I'm not certain what mint that is.

Take a picture and post it! We can give you the details. My first coin was a later Constantius II fallen horseman from Siscia!

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Posted (edited)

FINAL ENTRANTS AND VOTING REFERENCE POST

Note: This "Battle" is for fun, it's not serious and the highest grade coin doesn't always win.

Thank you to all who posted and participated. Please choose your favorite coin. Try to not let the photography influence your choice. The “Best” coin can be the most interesting, beautiful or highest grade or a mix... you decide!

The poll is at the top of the first page. I’ll leave voting open until 11:59 pm Central (US) time 10/11/22. After, we will have a champion until a challenger arises! 

If a challenger does arise, I'd suggest a new "BOT Challenge" post referencing and linking this one, including pictures of the previous final coins. It is the challenger's responsibility to "host" the new competition or challenge.

Feel free to continue discussing what makes each coin great! 

Vote now! 🗳 

(A further note... I think these BOT Battle posts could be fun and include a lot of good natured banter and discussion over interesting differences in types. Feel free to add to the topic here if you have ideas or suggestions on how these types of posts could be improved. Thank you!)

Coin 1 Below
ConstantiusIIAlexandriaRICVIII-72.JPG.9654b016a24b86f6da7c1b4ba3ba2852.JPG

Coin 2 Below
63775023-ADF4-4CC1-9A07-4158408881BF.jpeg.887142cae695dfb6c17cd7beb8d9a447.jpeg

Coin 3 Below
86C84CBE-D6C2-40F6-8347-C5DAD7D719DD.png.76e3dc586963f8c524b8d7be60788641.png

Coin 4 Below
07DB44BC-4DB6-4A04-9162-DC66ABA6F0E4.png.977ee406be9b06a4b6ccb681a6df4d1c.png

 

Coin 5 - I just noticed that COIN 5 withdrew from the competition. 

 

Edited by Orange Julius
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  • Orange Julius changed the title to Best of Type Battle Decided! - Constantius II - Fallen Horseman - Alexandria - RIC VIII 72

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