Benefactor kirispupis Posted October 1, 2022 · Benefactor Benefactor Share Posted October 1, 2022 Okay. I admit that many of you won't be impressed by this coin, but for me it's a huge pickup. First, I've been after it for some time. Ariarathes I was the head of Cappadocia at the time of Alexander's invasion. He was among the few in the area not to fall under Macedonian dominance, primarily because Alexander didn't feel it worth the effort. At the time of his death, it was probably on his To Do list, but Cappadocia remained independent. It wouldn't stay that way for long. After his death, Eumenes was tasked with placing the area under Macedonian control, and with the help of Perdikkas it was overwhelmed and Ariarathes executed. This coin was such an important pick-up because it serves as a key piece in three collections. My Philip II, Alexander III, and the Age of the Diadochi collection, where it was one of a handful of common coins I had yet to procure. With this purchase, there is only one common coin left and nine that rarely come up for auction. My Kingdoms After Alexander collection, where it represents Cappadocia (my rule is to pick up the first king of each, except in cases where the first king didn't issue coins or where they're cost prohibitive) My Cappadocia collection, where it serves as the first coin. Since I already have Ariarathes III and Ariaramnes examples, the rest are far easier. This is also one of the few areas I've actually visited. I spent several days in Cappadocia during a trip to Turkey about 12 years ago and the place is stunning. Nevertheless, it was easily the most difficult coin for me to obtain. While his coins do come up at auction regularly, I'd aimed at this griffin attacking stag coinage. Three times I attempted to purchase one. The first time, I simply didn't bid high enough. I thought I had it in the bag, but when my bid was exceeded at the live auction, I couldn't decide whether it was worth it to increase my bid, so I didn't and was the underbidder. The second time, I placed a high bid because I was now serious about procuring it. To my amazement, a bid came in for 2 CHF more at the Leu auction and grabbed it. I had to look up the rules and the move was fair, though dirty. I've since curtailed my purchases significantly from Leu, because this policy is mean. The third time, there were multiple copies at auction. Again, I was prepared to bid high. I looked up the day before the exact start of the auction and prepared for it, only to log in several hours early to check and find that the auction had started early and they'd already sold! One of them went below what I was willing to offer. So, I was on the lookout when this one appeared on VCoins. Since this wasn't the issue I was looking at, I had a dilemna. The following was my reasoning. Ariarathes I had three issues I know about. There's the griffin attacking stag, this one, and a bronze issue. I definitely wasn't going to settle for bronze after pursuing the silver issues. Of the two silvers, this one is the rarer by a roughly 1:2 ratio, but it also typically sells for less because the reverse isn't as exciting. The weight and value of the two are similar. Both silver issues are copies of other coinage. This one is close to the standard Sinope coinage at the time, while the griffin+stag coinage copies the earlier Mazaios coins. The griffin+stag coinage is often poorly struck and the aramaic inscription is often worn or off the flan. This one has a very clear inscription and is well-centered. The price of this coin was a third of what I budgeted for the stag+griffin Therefore, I made the call to buy it and then waited an anxious month-and-a-half for it to reach my house from Germany. It stayed in customs for over a week alone. But, I now possess it and am extremely happy. Paphlagonia, Sinope. Ariarathes I of Cappadocia Circa 325 BCE AR Drachm 5.53 gm, 17mm Persic standard Obv.: 'm in Aramaic, head of the nymph Sinope to left, her hair bound in a sakkos, wearing triple-pendant earring and pearl necklace; to left, aphlaston. Rev.: 'ariyrth' in Aramaic, sea-eagle with spread wings standing on a dolphin to left. HGC 7, 434; SNG BM Black Sea 1459; SNG Stancomb 761 Ex Tom Vossen 32 1 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryro Posted October 1, 2022 · Supporter Share Posted October 1, 2022 Way to go! And from Alexander's lifetime no less😲 The best Cappadocian I can add is this much later cheeky victory or Nero: CAPPADOCIA (1,77g, 15mm) Caesarea, Nero (54-68), AR Hemidrachm Obv: NERO CLAVD DIVI CLAVD F CAESAR AVG GERMANI; laureate head of Nero, right. Rev: Nike standing, right, with foot on globe and inscribing shield set on knee 15 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nerosmyfavorite68 Posted October 1, 2022 · Member Share Posted October 1, 2022 Awesome! It's always fun when one achieves a long-time want. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benefactor Steve Posted October 1, 2022 · Benefactor Benefactor Share Posted October 1, 2022 Congrats on the sweet OP-addition, Kirispupis 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nerosmyfavorite68 Posted October 1, 2022 · Member Share Posted October 1, 2022 I wonder why Deutsche Post takes so long? I've ordered from Norway (DHL), Belgium (but the package itself was from the Italian post), the UK, Germany, the Netherlands and France. The Netherlands package was the slowest, followed by Germany. I ordered two coins from Dr. Busso Peus via Deutsche Post (not their fault, I requested D.P.), which took a month each. The DHL took a few days. France was the fastest of the non-DHL packages. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seth77 Posted October 1, 2022 · Member Share Posted October 1, 2022 I think the reverse is very exciting. It reminds me of the late Archaic coinage of Istros and Sinope. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ominus1 Posted October 1, 2022 · Patron Share Posted October 1, 2022 beautiful! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agricantus Posted October 1, 2022 · Member Share Posted October 1, 2022 The legend in Aramaic is much cooler than the one in Greek that I have. Photo courtesy of CNG. 12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ambr0zie Posted October 1, 2022 · Member Share Posted October 1, 2022 Exceptional! Here is a coin with a very similar reverse design, that was also a very important target for me. Moesia. Istrus circa 280 - 256/255 BC Obol or Trihemiobol AR 12 mm, 0,77 g Facing male heads, the left one inverted / IΣTΡIH, Sea-eagle left on dolphin, ΔI beneath dolphin. Dima, Tabelul III, Grupa IV, Subgrupa VII, II – Pl XXI, 10 11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romismatist Posted October 2, 2022 · Member Share Posted October 2, 2022 I've seen a bunch of these for sale recently - on EBay and maybe the Frank Robinson auctions too - that have test cuts. It seems that this coin type commonly has test cuts, so it's great that you were able to get a more pristine specimen. Congrats! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fortuna Redux Posted October 2, 2022 · Member Share Posted October 2, 2022 @kirispupis Lovely coin! It’s interesting that the same coin design with 2 versions having inscription in different languages, wonder is this the only example in ancient world. I don’t possess any Araiathes I coin but I have his successor’s drachm, here you go KINGS OF CAPPADOCIA. Ariarathes V Eusebes Philopator (Circa 163-130 BC). Drachm AR Obv. Diademed head right. Rev: Dated regnal year B/2. ΒΑΣΙΛEΩΣ - ΑΡΙΑΡΑΘΟV - EVΣEBOYΣ, Athena Nikephoros standing l., holding Nike on her right hand, resting hand on shield ornamented with Gorgoneion; transverse spear behind her; in field, T Λ 11 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Severus Alexander Posted October 2, 2022 · Supporter Share Posted October 2, 2022 (edited) Congrats, that's quite a feeling to have only one reasonably obtainable coin to go in a major collecting set! I'm glad the acquisition saga for this one turned out well in the end... a scarcer coin that's probably overall more attractive than the Mazaios imitation you would have ended up with, for much less money too! 👍👍 I loved Cappadocia when I visited as well, not too long after you were there. This isn't very related, but in case you have a comment on it, I picked up a really unusual Cappadocian coin recently. It's a brockage of an Ariarathes IV bronze (Athena seated reverse, I believe, at 4.23g and 17mm). (Simonetta says Ariarathes III.) I'm not that knowledgeable about the Cappadocian series. Have you seen this sort of thing before? Edited October 2, 2022 by Severus Alexander 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benefactor kirispupis Posted October 3, 2022 · Benefactor Author Benefactor Share Posted October 3, 2022 20 hours ago, Severus Alexander said: This isn't very related, but in case you have a comment on it, I picked up a really unusual Cappadocian coin recently. It's a brockage of an Ariarathes IV bronze (Athena seated reverse, I believe, at 4.23g and 17mm). (Simonetta says Ariarathes III.) I'm not that knowledgeable about the Cappadocian series. Have you seen this sort of thing before? This is a very cool coin, though I'm far from an expert in the coinage. It's an entertaining series to research given the bitter feud between Simonetta and Morkholm. It seems that there's little resolution here, though AFAICT most sellers seem to accept Simonetta's arguments on the silver coinage but not on the bronze. Ariarathes IV is next up on my list, though I'm debating which one to purchase given the controversy. FWIW, here's my coin from Ariarathes III. Roma seems to accept Simonetta's attribution here. Kings of Cappadocia, Ariarathes III Circa 230-220 BCE Æ 5.04g, 20mm, 12h Head to right, wearing bashlyk / Goddess facing between two seated sphinxes; [ΒΑ]ΣΙΛ[ΕΩΣ] to right, [A]ΡIAPAΘ[OY] to left, TY above, [ANA] in exergue. Simonetta 5b = Simonetta, Coins 5; SNG Copenhagen Supp. 632 = SNG von Aulock 6258; HGC 7, 801 Ex Gorny & Mosch Giessener Münzhandlung 2012 Ex Fortuna Fine Arts (New York) Ex Roma 2019 Ex Roma 2022 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougsmit Posted October 3, 2022 · Member Share Posted October 3, 2022 20 hours ago, Severus Alexander said: It's a brockage of an Ariarathes IV bronze This is very unusual and a good looking coin but I do not like the lighting on the photo which does not make it clear that the coin is a brockage. The obverse shows a bright edge on the top but the reverse shows it on the bottom. That makes both sides look 'normal'. If lighted in the same way, the dark shadow under the but and behind the head would be light rather than dark. I don't have a Greek Brockage and AE brockages are not all that common. This is 'some coin'. The Claudius (barbarous) below shows the light coming from the top on both sides so the reverse looks incuse in comparison. 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Severus Alexander Posted October 3, 2022 · Supporter Share Posted October 3, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, dougsmit said: This is very unusual and a good looking coin but I do not like the lighting on the photo which does not make it clear that the coin is a brockage. The obverse shows a bright edge on the top but the reverse shows it on the bottom. That makes both sides look 'normal'. If lighted in the same way, the dark shadow under the but and behind the head would be light rather than dark. I don't have a Greek Brockage and AE brockages are not all that common. This is 'some coin'. Thanks, @dougsmit! Yes, I realized the problem with the photo, which is the seller's... I had to invert the reverse as they didn't even realize it was a brockage! They took the reverse photo upside down and described it as an "indeterminate incuse." Oops! 😁 Once I've darkened the scratches from the over-enthusiastic cleaning I'll take a new, proper photo, like the lovely one of your Claudius. Well, as close to proper as I can get, anyway, maybe half as good as yours? @kirispupis, you're right about the entertaining disputes between Morkholm and Simonetta... they don't pull any punches! 😆 Thanks for your impression of the overall state of play, that's very helpful. Good luck with your Ariarathes IV, I look forward to seeing it! Edited October 3, 2022 by Severus Alexander Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougsmit Posted October 3, 2022 · Member Share Posted October 3, 2022 5 hours ago, Severus Alexander said: I'll take a new, proper photo, Here is a good question: Should one use the same lighting for both sides of the same coin or is it OK to treat each side as an individual making adjustments as work best for that side? I usually say it is OK to make changes BUT, in the case of brockages, I believe it might be better to shoot the same way to preserve the odd look of the brockage. Opinion? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Severus Alexander Posted October 4, 2022 · Supporter Share Posted October 4, 2022 16 hours ago, dougsmit said: Here is a good question: Should one use the same lighting for both sides of the same coin or is it OK to treat each side as an individual making adjustments as work best for that side? I usually say it is OK to make changes BUT, in the case of brockages, I believe it might be better to shoot the same way to preserve the odd look of the brockage. Opinion? Good question indeed, @dougsmit! I certainly agree that it's best to preserve the odd look of the brockage. In individual cases, that might still be compatible with making some adjustments? You're probably right the adjustments will have to be relatively minor, though. Without other cues, the eye (or rather the brain) will tend to interpret the light on both sides as coming from the same direction. Since a brockage is chock-full of misleading such cues, it would be easy to mess the brain up. Here's another seller's photo. My opinion: incorrect lighting from above the portrait, but at least the lighting is the same on both sides. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sulla80 Posted December 7, 2022 · Supporter Share Posted December 7, 2022 Congrats @kirispupis, an interesting coin and an enjoyable story of its acquisition. My coins issued by anyone named Ariarathes are all much later - e.g. this one 250+ years later: with Mithridates VI of Pontus keeping in view (portrait) the power behind the eight year old, "father loving" puppet king Ariarathes IX Eusebes Philopator. Kings of Cappadocia, Ariarathes IX Eusebes Philopator, circa 100-85 BC. AR Drachm, Mint A (Eusebeia-Mazaka), Dated RY 4 (97/6 BC) Obv: Diademed head right, with the features of Mithradates VI of Pontos Rev: BAΣΙΛΕΩΣ APIAPAΘOY EYΣEBOY, Athena Nikephoros standing left; monogram to inner left, Δ (date) in exergue Full story here: https://www.sullacoins.com/post/a-father-s-support 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewStyleKing Posted December 7, 2022 · Member Share Posted December 7, 2022 Could this be the Mithradates jnr. Fimbria defeated , fled to pergamon, then fled with daddy to Mytilene? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sulla80 Posted December 8, 2022 · Supporter Share Posted December 8, 2022 14 hours ago, NewStyleKing said: Could this be the Mithradates jnr. Fimbria defeated , fled to pergamon, then fled with daddy to Mytilene? I don't think so (read some uncertainty into the answer), Mithridates had many children with many wives. I think Mithridates was one of the 4 sons (and 2 daughters) he had with his sister Laodice and Ariarathes IX was one of countless children (~8 sons and 5 daughters?) he had with concubines. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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