NewStyleKing Posted May 30, 2022 · Member Share Posted May 30, 2022 (edited) The Athens NewStyle coins , particularly the tetradrachm, are my passion. To many it appears they are boring. They however are packed with information, some of it waiting to be unravelled. A magnificent 2 volume book "The New Style Silver coinage of Athens" NSSCA, ANS 10 1961 is the bedrock. It has faults especially the chronology which gave rise to lots of revisions and investigations, but now the start date is "fixed" at c164 BC and the finish c 42 BC. Thompson's internal sequencing has mostly stood the test of time and I have been trying bring this to the fore. I write simple, often speculative articles on my academia.edu under my full name, John Arnold Nisbet and some resources too. I love the NewStyle and want it and the related Stephanophore's to thrive. The picture shows a coin from Thompson middle catalogue, symbol "Grapes" Thoneman called it "Frankly a mess" Well I don't agree. Edited May 30, 2022 by NewStyleKing write 16 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewStyleKing Posted May 30, 2022 · Member Author Share Posted May 30, 2022 My NewStyles a number have been sold since then and one or two added! 20 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AncientNumis Posted May 30, 2022 · Member Share Posted May 30, 2022 Wow! What a collection!!! Welcome @NewStyleKing, great to have members like you here 🙂. Looking forward to your posts, I don't know much about new style tets but I'm really intrigued by them so I'm sure I'll learn a lot from your posts 😄 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewStyleKing Posted May 30, 2022 · Member Author Share Posted May 30, 2022 (edited) These actually are the complete collection of the Thompson early catalogue all 29 examples of the 28 issues. The key to the mystery is Thompson #4 which has 2 coins for the one issue...one with a symbol and one without any symbol. My two have the same obverse . not seen as separate issues by Thompson or others since. As far as I know this is the only complete collection in Private hands, and only the ANS the complete collection and maybe one in Turkey and one in Greece. The 6th coin R5 This 2 Palms is one of only 4 known and the only one in private hands. One of the 2 Palms in a museum has only 1 Palm! Athens New Style Tetradrachm 160/59 BC Obv: Athena right in tri-form helmet Thompson issue 5 16.97 Gm 32 mm Thompson Catalogue: Obs: New : Rev: New Rev:ΑΘΕ ethnic Owl standing on amphora 2 Magistrates monograms beside each a single palm. Symbol: 2 Palms All surrounded by an olive wreath Edited June 1, 2022 by NewStyleKing 12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewStyleKing Posted May 30, 2022 · Member Author Share Posted May 30, 2022 (edited) Welcome to Thompson #4. This issue has two coin types one without and one with a symbol-Cornucopia. Both these coins have the same obverse die Athens New Style Tetradrachm 161/0 BC Obs : Athena Parthenos right in tri-form helmet 32mm 16.66g Thompson issue 4 Thompson catalogue : Obs 13 : Rev: 3c (not in plates)/ NEW? Rev : ΑΘΕ ethnic Owl standing on overturned panathenaic amphora 2 magistrates monograms in both fields RF symbol: Cornucopia All within a surrounding olive wreath Athens New Style Tetradrachm 161/0 BC Obs : Athena Parthenos right in tri-form helmet 34.2mm 16.97g Thompson issue 4 Thompson catalogue : Obs 13 : Rev (not in plates)/ NEW? Rev : ΑΘΕ ethnic Owl standing on overturned panathenaic amphora 2 magistrates monograms in both fields No symbol type All within a surrounding olive wreath Edited June 1, 2022 by NewStyleKing 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPK Posted May 30, 2022 · Supporter Share Posted May 30, 2022 Good grief! That is a stunning collection, @NewStyleKing!! I'd say that your forum name is well-earned. 🙂 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewStyleKing Posted May 30, 2022 · Member Author Share Posted May 30, 2022 (edited) A bit of double trouble on the obverse R2 Symbol Club Thompson #6 Athens New Style Tetradrachm 159/8 BC Obs : Athena Parthenos right in tri-form helmet 16.94gm 36mm Thompson Issue 6 Thompson catalogue : Obs 22 : Rev NEW Rev : ΑΘΕ ethnic Owl standing on overturned panathenaic amphora LF monogram RF monogram Π ω 2 magistrates RF symbol : Club All within a surrounding olive wreath Edited June 1, 2022 by NewStyleKing 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryro Posted May 30, 2022 · Supporter Share Posted May 30, 2022 Stunning display! When I saw the Drachm version on Numismatik Naumann going for a reasonable price I snatched it up! Thus far my on Athens new school: ATTICA. Athens. Drachm (151/0 BC). New Style Coinage. Dionys-, Dionys-, Ari-, magistrates. Obv: Helmeted head of Athena right. Rev: A - ΘE / ΔIO - NYΣ / ΔIO / NYΣ / API. Owl standing right on amphora, head facing. Controls: To right, Helios facing in quadriga; uncertain letter on amphora; ΣΩ in ex. Thompson 579; HGC 4, 1635. Condition: Fine. Weight: 3.87 g. Diameter: 17 mm. 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewStyleKing Posted May 30, 2022 · Member Author Share Posted May 30, 2022 Wow that's a bit crowded Yep T579 But in quite good condition any chance for a guess at a amphora letter Great catch. I have no drachms or hemidrachms , just big flasy tetradrachms. A fairly large issue having lots of tets and drachms 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewStyleKing Posted May 30, 2022 · Member Author Share Posted May 30, 2022 (edited) Thompson # 7 . An example without a Rudder symbol? Has there been some smoothing to the fields that eliminated the Rudder symbol which should be in the bottom left field where the amphora base is. I cannot see any sign of it. I bought it from a Ma shops German dealer who mentioned nothing! All the same this is the one with an excellent artistic Athena harking back to an earlier issue. Also she is wearing an aegis, the last time it appears on the NewStyle coinage T27 but not 27 a the Thompson plate 27a is not this reverse, so I still don't know if the missing rudder is due to artifice. The two examples of this obverse die in Svoronos both have faint rudders but they aren't a reverse die match to this coin . The mystery remains! 6 obverses known to Thompson but many more came up in hoards,. Athens New Style Tetradrachm 158/7 BC Obs : Athena Parthenos in tri-form helmet wearing aegis 15 55g 32.5mm Thompson issue 7 Thompson catalogue : Obs 27 : Rev NEW (no rudder) Rev : ΑΘΕ ethnic Owl standing on overturned panathenaic amphora 2 magistrates monograms : NAUKRATES ARI.... NO RUDDER SYMBOL BELOW LF MONOGRAM EXE graffito below left centre olive wreath All within surrounding olive wreath Edited June 1, 2022 by NewStyleKing 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewStyleKing Posted May 30, 2022 · Member Author Share Posted May 30, 2022 (edited) Thompson # 8. The Athena is not charming somewhat Acromalgic , Very sparse ornamentation on bowl. What a weird Owl ! An excellent example .From a hoard that appeared on eBay some years ago. Oh yes Pegasos has a lions' swishy tail on this obverse example. Athens New Style Tetradrachm 157/6 BC Obs : Athena Parthenos right in tri-form helmet Lions tailed pegasos type 33.8 mm 16.32gm Thompson issue 8 Thompson catalogue: 34b ? ( not in plates) Rev : ΑΘΕ ethnic Owl standing on overturned panathenaic amphora 2 magistrates monograms in both fields RF symbol :Nike presenting Wreath All surrounded by olive wreath Edited June 1, 2022 by NewStyleKing 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewStyleKing Posted May 30, 2022 · Member Author Share Posted May 30, 2022 (edited) Thompson #10 . Nice obverse despite the wear. A nice reverse, bit of some flat striking on the owl Symbol Grain ear Athens New Style Tetradrachm 155/4 BC Obs : Athena Parthenos right in tri-form helmet 33mm 17.2gm Thompson issue 10 Thompson catalogue: Obs 50 : Rev: (not in plates)/ NEW? Rev : ΑΘΕ ethnic Owl standing on overturned panathenaic amphora 2 Complex magistrates monograms in both fields LF symbol: Ear of Grain All surrounded by olive wreath ar Edited June 1, 2022 by NewStyleKing 9 to 10 ear 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewStyleKing Posted May 30, 2022 · Member Author Share Posted May 30, 2022 (edited) Thompson # 9 A stunning example of symbol Trophy. It is interesting that the 2 magistrates monograms appear on one side only. What a charming elfin-like Athena .Notice that the owls legs are spaced not upright beneath the owl as on earlier coins. Lovely balanced and depicted reverse. Athens New Style Tetradrachm 156/5 BC Obs : Athena Parthenos right in tri-form helmet 32mm 16.82gm Thompson issue 9 Thompson catalogue: Obs 43 : Rev: (not in plates)/ NEW? Rev : ΑΘΕ ethnic Owl standing on overturned panathenaic amphora 2 Complex magistrates monograms in right field LF symbol: Trophy All surrounded by olive wreath Edited June 1, 2022 by NewStyleKing 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benefactor DonnaML Posted May 30, 2022 · Benefactor Benefactor Share Posted May 30, 2022 (edited) Glad to see you here, @NewStyleKing. I don't have a great memory for that kind of thing, but aren't you one of the many people who were banned from CoinTalk for no good reason whatsoever? And then got no response whatsoever from the Grand Poobah over there when you tried to find out why? Edited May 30, 2022 by DonnaML 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewStyleKing Posted May 30, 2022 · Member Author Share Posted May 30, 2022 (edited) Yes Donna that is true. And when I asked 2 members of Forum A C to ask the moderators to help, they were knocked back by the lesser admin. It just wasn't the head Honcho only but his spirit of pointless aggressiveness had infected them also Thanks Donna, I still read your stuff on CT! Edited May 30, 2022 by NewStyleKing by only also 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewStyleKing Posted May 30, 2022 · Member Author Share Posted May 30, 2022 (edited) This is the apogee of the early, early NewStyles. That is ones without any controls. This is Thompson # 11 symbol caps of the Dioscuri. I bought it cheap as chips. Like many others this is in excellent condition. Well struck, well centred and both sides artistic and thought out. would go for about 5X what I paid for it! What a noble Athena, look at that owl and its posture perching on that amphoralike I own this! 2 clear monograms although who these people were is unknowable! No wonder why they eventually moved on from monograms to their abbreviated names! Enjoy, I do. Athens New Style tetradrachm 154/3 BC Obs : Athena Parthenos right in tri-form helmet 34.5mm 16.72g Thompson issue 11 Thompson catalogue : Obs 60 : Rev (not in plates)/ NEW? Rev : ΑΘΕ ethnic Owl standing on overturned panathenaic amphora 2 complex magistrates monograms in both fields RF symbol : Caps of Dioscuri All within a surrounding olive wreath Edited June 1, 2022 by NewStyleKing caps of dioscuri 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewStyleKing Posted May 30, 2022 · Member Author Share Posted May 30, 2022 (edited) Just for the record, I posted these NewStyle tetradrachms in Bring out your Tets! Ding-aling-aling Bring out your Tets! Ding-aling-aling, earlier but they should be here for comparison. l to R, Thompson #1 a magnificent example of obverse die #3 a magnificent R4/5 Athena unspoilt by a dotted border, truly artistic with aegis. She is truly serene and yet has a "don't mess with me" undercurrent. The simple reverse artistically balanced with simple monograms to both sides flanking a lovely proportioned owl and amphora, the owl proudly perched ready to fly off. The olive wreath is beautifully rendered and frames the whole with dignity and sensibility. Bought from a NewStyle hoard off eBay for little money by today's standards and worth many times more. Despite slight corrosion I think this is the best example out there anywhere! Thompson #2. Beautifully rendered Athena with a thinner face than previous, the reverse is lovely a sparser wreath frames the ethnic and 2 monograms which are cut by a master with a delicate owl and amphora. This issue has 2 symbols both related to the Elysian Mysteries rites, a Kernos and a Bakhos, unique to this coin only. R4 Thompson #3 Bought on eBay from a hoard which other coins in my collection come from. Sadly worn and die shifted, this coin as in Thompson #1 has no symbol. The Athena is like Thompson # 4 above, smaller , fatter, more compact/ The reverse, bigger thicker wreath, covering a less than convincing owl amphora combination, but the die shift may mask it's true nature. One of the monograms is now a partial name. R4 Pity about the die shift and wear. Athens New Style Tetradrachm 164/3 BC Obs: Athena Parthenos in tri-form helmet right, wearing Aegis, Biga on neckguard No border of dots 33.5 mm 16.15gm Thompson issue 1 Thompson catalogue: Obs 3 : Rev NEW Rev : ΑΘΕ ethnic Owl standing on overturned panathenaic amphora 2 magistrates monograms in both fields All surrounded by olive wreath with single tie Athens New Style Tetradrachm 163/2 BC Obs : Athena Parthenos right in tri-form helmet 35.5mm 16.29g Thompson issue 2 Thompson catalogue : Obs 7 : Rev NEW Rev : ΑΘΕ ethnic Owl standing on overturned panathenaic amphora 2 magistrates 1 monogram in LF & in RF 2 Symbols Kernos in RF: Bakhos below amphora All within a surrounding olive wreath Athens New Style Tetradrachm 162/1 BC Obs : Athena Parthenos right in tri-form helmet 33.6mm 16.73g Thompson issue 3 Thompson catalogue : Obs 10 : Rev NEW/ f/g (not in plates)? Rev : ΑΘΕ ethnic Owl standing on overturned panathenaic amphora 2 magistrates 1 monogram in LF - ΦΑΝΙ in RF All within a surrounding olive wreath Edited June 1, 2022 by NewStyleKing delphic to Elysian mysteries 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benefactor Theodosius Posted May 30, 2022 · Benefactor Benefactor Share Posted May 30, 2022 Really glad to see you here. I learned so much about this type from your posts. I love this type and I'm still looking for one for my collection. I love all the stephanophoric types! There are so many artistic dies in the series. They are also very big and spread out flans that make them a pleasure to hold. John 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewStyleKing Posted May 30, 2022 · Member Author Share Posted May 30, 2022 Hi Theodosius, The prices have jumped but keep trying! I was fortunate when I started out when big hoards came to eBay and auctions of lots of early stuff. Much rarer now. About 500 of old style mass classic owls to 1 NewStyle so it seems ! Thank you for your kind words and if I can be of help, please don't hesitate to ask Regards, John aka NewStyleKing 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benefactor robinjojo Posted May 31, 2022 · Benefactor Benefactor Share Posted May 31, 2022 21 hours ago, NewStyleKing said: My NewStyles a number have been sold since then and one or two added! Wow! It is great to see your collection of new style owls! The quality overall is excellent. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewStyleKing Posted May 31, 2022 · Member Author Share Posted May 31, 2022 (edited) Thompson #12. Cicada. The first NewStyle tetradrachm with a control. Although pitted this coin has a finely chiselled Athena- probably too finely and the details don't stand out. The bowl ornamentation is far too non-imposing. The reverse has a large wreath crowding the owl amphora symbol , ethnic and magistrates monograms. The symbol cicada is on the left hand side but I highlighted that examples exist with cicada on the right too. Indeed I wrote about it on academia, as well as noting new obverses! As you can see by the corrosion this came from a hoard where the coins had got sort of glued together and prised apart. This despite all this is a good example, I bought it for the FIRST CONTROL! "A". The first of the first. Despite what one person thinks, everyone else believes that this indicates the first Athenian month, A for Alpha! This is logical, but early on the month indicator strays from the logical amphora placing Quite a common coin generally. Athens New Style Tetradrachm 153/2 BC Obs : Athena Parthenos right in tri-form helmet 34.2mm 16.80 g Thompson issue 12 Thompson catalogue : Obs 66 : Rev NEW Rev : ΑΘΕ ethnic Owl standing on overturned panathenaic amphora on which month letter A 2 magistrates monograms in both fields LF symbol : Cicada All within a surrounding olive wreath e Edited June 1, 2022 by NewStyleKing 13 to 12 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewStyleKing Posted May 31, 2022 · Member Author Share Posted May 31, 2022 (edited) Thompson # 13, symbol 2 Serpents. This example I bought when I thought early NewStyles were rarer , Then parts on early hoards appeared on eBay and auctions. The obverse would have a nice sensitive, well proportioned Athena but the die is well worn! The reverse by contrast is quite fresh. It is a well balanced artistic concoction, a nice , but thick wreath but look at that bulbous vase, often called a Panathenaic vase after the Athenian games. The prize contained olive oil! Earlier and complete Panathenaic vases are quite common in top museums, but Hellenistic examples are rare and appear as shards. The symbol 2 Serpents is rather poorly defined, but look at that marvellous owl proudly owning the prize-this is mine! The monograms are believed to be of the brothers Moschion and Phanias and after the 6th month the monograms swap positions It seems thus apparent that the left hand side monogram is the place of honour. Amphora control Z is the sixth Athenian month. Athens New Style Tetradrachm 152/1 BC Obs : Athena Parthenos right in tri-form helmet 33mm 16.92 g Thompson Issue 13 Thompson catalogue: Obs 80 ?? : Rev 79a Rev : AΘE ethnic Owl Standing on overturned panathenaic amphora on which month mark Ζ XM monogram left, AΦN monogram right 2 magistrates : MOSCHOS PHANIAS RF symbol : 2 Serpents All within a surrounding olive wreath Edited June 1, 2022 by NewStyleKing 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewStyleKing Posted May 31, 2022 · Member Author Share Posted May 31, 2022 (edited) Thompson # 14. This magnificent bold specimen has a really well defined Athena, don't mess with me! A short somewhat stumpy bowl ornament a proud splayed Pegasos and large horse protomes ion the visor. The reverse is full , a less bulbous and more extended amphora has an M on it , the 12th Athenian month, but careful scrutiny reveals that there is another date which it had superimposed on. That is a B, the 2nd Athenian month! That is a unaccountable 10 month gap! Had the reverse die fall under the sofa cushions? I mean the reverse wasn't worn out was it? Oh look at that owl! Very much like the Cicada one. The amphora is like the 2 serpents one but dominated by the large quite crude M The symbol term of Hermes is a religious apopotraic figure often standing at the threshold of a house outside giving protection to the house and the people inside. Alcibiades went on a Term of Hermes smashing rampage before going off to battle someone! Athens New Style Tetradrachm 151/0 BC Obs : Athena Parthenos right in tri-form helmet 32 3 mm 17.20 g Thompson Issue 14 Thompson catalogue: Obs 87 : Rev NEW Rev : AΘE ethnic Owl Standing on overturned panathenaic amphora on which month mark M/B 2 magistrates mongrams in both fields LF symbol : Term of Hermes All within a surrounding olive wreath Edited June 1, 2022 by NewStyleKing 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewStyleKing Posted May 31, 2022 · Member Author Share Posted May 31, 2022 (edited) Thompson # 15. Symbol Kernos, A reference to the elysian mysteries> Interestingly some of this issue's don't have a symbol on them! The obverse is worn and not deeply struck, but Athena is well proportioned and noble with lots of detail notice the necklace and straggly hair and the horse head protomes on the visor. The reverse has fully for the first time NO monograms, but 2 highly abbreviated magistrates names framing the owl/amphora combo .The wreath is nice and large the symbol, Kernos is well delineated The owl is magnificently imperious overshadowing the well proportioned bulbous amphora. The magistrates either side of the combo are Ammo and Dio. Who actually they were is not known.. Notice there are no amphora dates or any other lettering. Some other reverses do have a letter somewhere in the field and one example has the letters AP ? Quite a mix up, this tells us that the ancient Greeks were not consistent nor methodical as we would like. Some masters of the mint were not very good at administration The Romans were just as bad at times! Athens New Style Tetradrachm 150/9 BC Obs: Athena Parthenos right in tri-form helmet 34.5mm 16.70gm Thompson issue 15 Thompson catalogue: Obs 99: Rev (not in plates)/ NEW? Rev : ΑΘΕ ethnic Owl standing on overturned panathenaic amphora 2 magistrates : AMMO ΔΙΟ LF symbol : Kernos All surrounded by an olive wreath T Edited June 1, 2022 by NewStyleKing 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewStyleKing Posted May 31, 2022 · Member Author Share Posted May 31, 2022 Thompson # 16 Symbol Palm behind Owl Athens New Style Tetradrachm 149/8 BC Obs : Athena Parthenos right in tri-form helmet 34mm 16.64g Thompson issue 16 Thompson catalogue: Obs 109 : Rev (not in plates)/ NEW? Rev : AΘE ethnic. Owl standing on overturned panathenaic amphora on which 2 control letters Ε ? : RF month mark Ι ΠOΛΥ , TI - MPΔ monogram 2 magistrates : ΠΟΛΥ TIMARCHIDES Symbol : Palm Leaf (oblique behind owl) All within a surrounding olive wreath This lovely quirky issue has a lovely bold Athena similar to the Athena on Term of Hermes I bought it dirt cheap from eBay. The reverse is great The owl on amphora is like the much earlier owls before Trophy in that the owl is scrunched up on the body of the amphora legs straight down, no spacing. Lovely big eyes! The amphora is bulbous on which two letters appear E? Is this the 2nd control, which appears possibly on a few reverses of Kernos? The left hand field has POLU spelt out whist the right field has a partial monogram- partial ogram if you will- TIM spelt out and an attached monogram which together reads TIMARCHIDES Now these 2 magistrates are known entities, Mattingly confidently identified them as famous sculptors which allowed the chronology to be settled on the LOW regime and the the exact date to be determined-a very useful peg! Now below the partialogram is the letter I taken as the month letter or 1st control. However this arrangement on other reverses is not consistent-well they were ancient at the time! Margaret Thompson thought that was the case in 1961 NSSCA but changed her mind in examples from the Agrinion Hoard. But because of the lack of consistency her original idea could still be right. Thus the first time a 1st and 2nd control appears on a coin of one issue. The wreath is a bit "overstuffed" but does its framing job well. The symbol is just a Palm but disappearing behind the owl is an excellent artistic conceit ! A kind of transitional type. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.