Salomons Cat

I have absolutely no clue about sestertii. I collect only silver coins and I own almost only silver coins. Usually, I barely notice the brass or copper coins that appear in auctions. But this one left me perplexed: https://www.biddr.com/auctions/monnaiesdantan/browse?a=3957&l=4657840 I have no clue how to spot if a sestertius is fake or not. Is this one of the greatest Caligula sestertii, ever? Even better than most of the paduans? Apart maybe from the fact that it looks very “soft”? Or is it fake? My French is very rusty, but I have the impression that according to the description and considering the price it should be genuine 🤔 I’m just not sure…

Titus, as Caesar, 69-79. Denarius (Silver, 16 mm, 3.62 g, 6 h), Antiochia, 72/3. T CAES IM[P VESP P]ON TR POT Rev. Palm tree; to left, Titus standing, left foot set on helmet, holding spear in his right hand and parazonium in his left; to right, Judaea seated in attitude of mourning, her head resting on her hand. BMC 518. Cohen 392. RIC 1562. RPC II 1934.

The flan shape seems very similar to me, but not identical. I have the impression that these are probably genuine coins; judging only from the photos… 🤔

… and even IF someone wrote complete nonsense, I still believe that this person should get a real answer and not only such a smiley. Because you‘re completely taking away from the other person the possibility to learn why you disagree with their post, if the only answer is this smiley. (But I‘m actually more worried that it is just offensive and impolite)

Well, maybe I‘m just a bit overly sensitive? I‘m really curious what you think 😅

A question: There is this „confused“ smiley and I think that it is often used in a disrespectful way. Yesterday I got a bit angry when someone opened a thread and other people reacted with this smiley to the thread and only posted short meaningless responses. I have noticed a few times already that some people use this smiley as a kind of „insult“ or to stall discussions - and I don‘t find this okay. At the same time, I think that many people are offended when they get this smiley as a reacton to one of their posts. If this here is a discussion forum, then people should be able to discuss with words and not in such an immature way with this smiley. Or am I wrong? Am I the only one who has this impression? If not, then I would suggest to replace this smiley with something less offensive.

I‘ve read such things a few times in this forum. Why would you want to pay more for an inferior coin? Would a few weeks less waiting time make such a difference? I suggest looking up the Stanford Marshmellow Experiment. Patience really pays off, in all aspects of life. According to science 🙂

No. I posted a double die match. The coin has not been tooled, I think that this is obvious. Where exactly do you think that you see anything suspicious?

Thank you, @CPK and @Prieure de Sion! I took some other photos, but I do neither have any talent for taking photos nor good equipment. This is the best that I was able to get:

Why do you think so? Because of the auction description? Here it is: The obverse of my coin was definitely not smoothed but possibly cleaned with a tool that left some tiny scratches that are visible at 10X. In contrast, I only detect very few of these on the reverse. On the reverse, there are some tiny encrustations near to the trophy and near to the letters IVDAEA, only visible at 10X. But the majority of the small field areas (that would be difficult or impossible to smooth) looks like exactly the rest of the surface. Also when I compare the surface of the coin to the surface of my other coins I cannot detect any relevant differences. So, I do believe that some encrustations have been removed. On the obverse, this was probably done with a brush. On the reverse, the cleaner was a bit more sophisticated. But altogether, I do not think that these are relevant alterations. I could still return the coin if I wanted to - but I don't think that there is any reason for that. Here's a double die match, the coin at the right is currently for sale on ma-shops and got NGC Ch AU 4/5 3/5:

Thank you all for your great comments! @Steppenfool, these FOMO bids are an interesting concept. I would do it exactly like this if I was an investor or a coin dealer. I've tried doing something like this once or twice but I had the feeling that I ended up with coins that I didn't want 100%. For some reason these FOMO bids don't seem to work for me so well; I don't know why. I would probably reconsider the FOMO bid strategy if I had my own vcoins shop. But unfortunately I've read that you don't get rich with that 😄 I absolutely agree with everything that you wrote. "Likes" on social media tend to create addiction. There is already a bunch of research about that. This forum is designed to work in the same way: We get a notification for every "like" that we get - and even if we're not aware of it, such push up notifications already cause a tiny dopamine rush in our brains. That's why I turned them off in the account settings. I can only recommend that. I'm already a bit addicted to WhatsApp - too much social media addiction cannot be good. @Sulla80 and @El Cazador wanted to see the coin of interest... well, here it is 😊 (arrived yesterday)

Vespasian, 69 - 79 AD. Denarius, Rome mint. Obv: IMP CAESAR VESPASIANVS AVG, laureate head right Rev: IVDAEA in exergue, Trophy; to right, Judaea seated right in attitude of mourning, head resting in hand. RIC 2. Ex Frank S. Robinson auction 122. This is the coin that made me think about budgeting and financial limits before I bought it. I'm very happy with it now. It's clearly struck, with a high relief on both sides and well centered. But most importantly: During the buying process I learned how to create a monthly budget and how much I could spend on "wants" without difficulty and without feeling guilty 🙂 When I have time I will write a bit more about this coin. Here is the reverse, next to some of my other coins: (The coin capsules always reflect the light - this was the best picture that I was able to take :))

All the best, @Roman Collector! I hope that you will recover well. Take your time, don‘t rush it! AntPi and Salus for your health: Antoninus Pius, 138-161. Denarius (Silver, 18 mm, 2.96 g, 6 h), Rome, 148-149. Obv: ANTONINVS AVG PIVS P P TR P XII Laureate head of Antoninus Pius to right. Rev: COS IIII Salus standing left, feeding from patera held in right hand serpent entwined around altar to left, and holding rudder in left. BMC 670. Cohen 281. RIC 181.

Gladiator 1) Commodus From left to right, upper row first: Commodus at age 15. Obv: COMMODO CAES AVG FIL GERM SARM. Rev: HILARITAS. Ref: RIC III 611 (Aurelius). Rome mint, AD 175-176. 3.45 g - 19 mm Commodus at age 15. Obv: COMMODO CAES AUG FIL GERM SARM. Rev: PRINC IUVENT. Ref: RIC -; BMC -; Cohen -. MIR 342-14/15 (no example recorded). Apparently unpublished with this bust type. Rome, 175-176 AD. 3.48 g - 18 mm. Ex Leu 07/2022, Adrian Lang collection. Commodus at about age 22. Obv: M COMMODVS ANTON AVG PIVS. Rev: P M TR P VIIII IMP VII COS IIII P P, modius with seven grain stalks. RIC III 94. Rome, AD 184. Commodus at about age 30. Obv: L AEL AVREL C – OMM AVG P FEL, wearing lion skin headdress. Rev: HERCVLI ROMANO AVG, club flanked by bow and quiver. RIC 253. 3.38 g - 18 mm. Ex Jeremy (numisforums) and ex Naumann 09/2019. Commodus at about age 30. Obv: L AEL AVREL COMM AVG P FEL, wearing lion skin headdress. Rev: HERCVL ROMAN AVGV. Rome, 192 AD. 17mm - 3.11g. Ex Prieure de Sion (numisforums) and ex Noonans 03/2023, Graham Collection. Commodus at about age 24 with presumed damnatio memoriae. Obv: M COMM ANT P FEL AVG BRIT. Rev: FID EXERC P M TR P XI IMP VII COS V P P, RIC III 130d. Rome, 186 AD. 18mm - 3.09g. Ex Prieure de Sion (numisforums) and Numidas Numismatik Vienna, (Catawiki Auction 68867989). 2) Lucilla Lucilla, lived 148/149 - 181/182 AD. Denarius (164 AD), 3.52g. Obv: LVCILLAE AVG ANTONINI AVG F, dr. bust r., hair waved and knotted low at back in chignon Rev: VOTA / PVBLI / CA in laurel wreath RIC 791 3) Marcus Aurelius Marcus Aurelius, lived 121-180 AD. Denarius, 3.28 g, 18 mm. Rome. Obv: AVRELIVS CAESAR AVG PII FIL. Bare-headed and draped bust right. Rev: TR POT VIIII COS II. Minerva standing left with owl, shield and spear. RIC 463b

I disagree. It‘s not like the elderly couple went to the flea market. No, they went to the dealer because they believed that he was a specialist and they relied on his expertise. And apparently they weren‘t completely wrong, because this dealer was able to sell the mask for $4.4 million later. I think that it will be very difficult for the dealer to convince anyone that he knew near to nothing about that mask.

Yes, that's exactly how it is. There is a principle in Roman law which is called laesio enormis (wikipedia), according to which abnormal harm of one contracting party should be avoided. Many countries included this into their jurisdiction, but usually the principle of "freedom of contract" is more important, therefore the concept of laesio enormis is not so important in daily life. More importantly, every contract is void if one party obviously did not understand the core aspects of the agreement due to inexperience, deception or coercion. In this case, the elderly couple who sold the mask was most likely deceived. (But please take everything that I write about law with a grain of salt - my law studies were >10 years ago and I'm not working as a lawyer.)

I agree! And the "Roman Empire" section of this forum is notably bustling with activity - it's the most active among all sections. However, the Roman Empire spans a vast period of time. Would it be prudent to consider dividing it into two distinct sub-sections: "Early Roman Empire (27 BC - 284 AD)" and "Late Roman Empire (284 AD - 641 AD)"? Presently, the content within the Roman Empire section is rather amalgamated, which at times appears disorganized in my opinion.

I envision a scenario where a millionaire or billionaire, after enjoying a few glasses of wine in the evening, shares his coin collection with friends who aren't collectors. He begins by recounting the foundation myth of Rome, starting with this coin, primarily focusing on the image on the reverse. He would say: „This coin features one of the earliest portrayals of the she-wolf alongside Romulus and Remus, at 137 BC…“. The audience would be fascinated and the legends would go unread, anyway. That‘s how I imagine it. Another scenario would be a collector who has all of his coins in XF condition - and for this coin, such a specimen is just very hard to find. That‘s why he needed this one. In this case, the general condition would be more important than the completeness of the legends. All in all, I could imagine a few reasons why someone could have wanted exactly this coin.

I must say that I‘m not soo surprised. This denarius is the most beautiful one among the ~98 examples on acsearch. Of course that‘s expensive, but I don’t think that the price is completely irrational. At least not if you‘re very, very rich.

Oh yes, I remember how surprised I was when I first noticed the prices for these coins… There must be some very wealthy people somewhere out there who only collect zodiac coins.

Happy anniversary!! My first step was about 21 years ago, when I was 11 years old. I saw some Roman coins on a flea market and I bought a Constantius II follis in fine condition for 5 CHF, that was euqual to about 3 USD at that time, I believe. Today 5 CHF = 5 USD. I was very sceptical about the authenticity of the Constantius II follis during several months until a historian that I met at a local museum took me to his office and showed me some books (Roman Imperial Coinage) and convinced me that my coin was genuine. During the following years I bought some other Roman coins, a Gordian III denarius and an antoninian, for example. But nothing very special or valuable. Luckily! The prices for most of the coins on the flea market were too high, anyways. And I didn't have access to other sources. Then, when I was about 16 years old, I feared that collecting coins was "not cool" and I discontinued. What would the girls think?! 😄 I rather went to the gym and whatever 16 year olds do. Later I studied law and medicine, during that time I was only focused on my studies and I didn't have much money anyways. So I didn't even think about collecting ancient coins. Since a few years I'm finally earning some money, I have a safe job, I was able to buy an apartment - and about 1-2 years ago I looked for ancient coins on ebay, just to check what was available on the market and to look at the prices. And since then I'm obsessed with ancient coins ☺️ Not with coins from the Later Roman Empire, though. I don't know why - they don't fascinate me as much. I just feel more "connected" to the earlier Roman coins. I also like silver coins more than bronzes. That's why I collect Roman silver coins only, and only until Max Thrax. I don't think that there is any logical reason behind my preference. I also realized that many people enjoy history and talking about the Roman Empire. I didn't expect that when I was 16. So, ...

That's true, of course. But if I really want a coin and if I know that I have time at the last instant when the auction closes, then I prefer to bid late. I really wished that I could have bought this coin... Of course, there are a few specimens on vcoins, but it's really, really hard to find one in this condition and it hammered for "only" 750 CHF. At the time when this Vespasian was auctioned by Leu, I was supposed to have a free afternoon. A new colleague at work couldn't keep up with the work load and I was asked to stay a bit longer in the hospital... But I always have to remind myself that there is something that I call "The effect of Salomon's cat". It's closely related to "Schrödinger's cat". It describes the phenomenon that a certain coin is both cheap and expensive, as long as I don't participate in the auction. Because as soon as soon as I participate in an auction, the coin usually becomes quite expensive 😄 And I could win 2 other fabulous coins in the same auction, later. So, no reason to regret anything.

Yep… I‘ve had 2 weeks of a mild depressive episode after missing a denarius with a nice portrait of Marcus Aurelius last May: https://www.artemideaste.com/auction/view/872/608 I also wanted to bid on this here, but couldn’t because work got in the way: https://www.coinarchives.com/a/lotviewer.php?LotID=2237628&AucID=5442&Lot=36&Val=9af73dca054250678cbc2e1605bee760 I think that these were the my most painful “losses” from the past 6 months. Still hurts a little bit. But not much anymore. Nobody knows if I had won if I had placed bids on these coins. And over time, I anticipate encountering numerous enticing coins available for purchase, far exceeding what I can realistically acquire or possess. And I’m very grateful for the coins that I own. Before I buy a coin I always check all coins of the same (or similar) type on acsearch from the past 3 years - and I must honestly say that’ I’m happy with my collection. So, all in all… no ragrets.

...and by that, I don't mean Roman coins, for once. Not directly, at least. Collecting ancient coins can be an expensive hobby. I've read a few times that collectors have had periods when they got into financial trouble because they spent too much money. I'm glad that some more experienced collectors have mentioned that financial troubles due to coin collecting can occur. I think it would be good to discuss this occasionally. Two days ago, I was watching an online auction. There was a great coin that I really wanted, but apparently, others wanted it as well. The price went higher than I had hoped. I calculated how much money I had spent recently on coins and pondered whether it was reasonable to spend a bit more than I had planned. Suddenly, I was shocked because I realized that I had no clear decision scheme, and I was deciding on a case-by-case basis whether I would buy a certain coin or not. The next thing I did was read some articles about the question of how much a hobby should cost. I found something called the "50/30/20 rule," which seems quite popular. Let me summarize it quickly: The 50/30/20 Budget Method is a simple guideline that can help you plan your budget effectively. Under this method, you allocate your monthly after-tax income into three categories: 50% to "needs," 30% to "wants," and 20% to your financial goals. "Needs" include food, mortgage or rent, electricity, insurance, and car or public transport expenses. "Wants" encompass ancient coins, other hobbies, and holidays. "Financial goals" refer to savings. Although, during times of high inflation, you might prefer to invest in shares or other assets rather than storing money in your bank account. I'm aware that this rule has some limitations. Someone who has just started their career will have a different relationship with their money than someone who has worked hard for decades and is now retired. So, most people would probably adjust these guidelines according to their needs. Nevertheless, I believe that most collectors do have, or should have, some principles that they apply when deciding how much they want to spend. By the way, I concluded that I could afford the coin that I mentioned above and I bought it. But it felt only good after having cleared my head about these financial aspects. So, my question is: Do you have any rules when it comes to buying coins, or do you decide for each individual one if you can afford it or not? The following video is just for the case that you want to know what Scrooge McDuck thinks about money and budgeting:

Link: Roman Republican denarius L. Lucretius Trio. Denarius, Rome, 76 BC. Obv: Laureate head of Neptune right, trident over shoulder; behind, LXI. Rev: Winged boy on dolphin swimming right; below,L·LVCRETI/ TRIO. Cr. 390/2; B. (Lucretia) 3. AR. 3.91 g. 17.50 mm. Ex Artemide Aste, 09/2023. Thanks, @DonnaML! Your's is beautiful as well! I don't believe that my Divus Vespasian is especially rare. It's probably just less favored than the capricorn reverse 😄 But I like it, too...