Rand

Earlier on the thread, by @John Conduitt

It is always sad when long-time collectors willingly decide to part with their life passions. Often this means reaching the stage of their life when the sparkle of desire and hunt is gone - a grim sign that it is time to spend more time with them. NB! This observation has nothing to do with the collection we discuss. Being a collector is a personality trait - passing it to children is random, and most people do not have it. Family collections are not that common, I think. It would be interesting to know how many people on the forum have inherited their hobby.

Thank you, and it would be nice to visit it! It would be good to know if the museum has an online collection of their coins - I could not find it on their website.

We have debated provenances extensively on this forum and agreed that provenances are important, but different collectors value them differently. I value find provenances and would pay just for them for some coins, even without being able to buy coins themselves. I value pre-60th photographic provenances for authenticity's sake, but I would not pay extra for a personality collecting them. There may be some personalities I am fond of, which might make me pay a premium, but this is uncommon. There may be exceptions, these are not hard rules. I am fond of the Curtis Clay's collection. Sorry, I do not follow John Adams's collection.

While it is the choice of coins that makes collections important, the fact that a passionate academic collector has selected coins over decades speaks for itself. I enjoyed checking the selection, even though they are outside my prime interest.

I have to admit the approach mildly upsets me. It feels like selling a ‘random pet’, which could be of any species, big or small. Enjoy the fun. Being old-fashioned, I respect ancient coins as historical artefacts and would not buy those I do not want and am prepared to look after. But this may work well for collectors with broad interest or dealers for whom this could be a useful resell opportunity with a newly created flashy provenance. It is not for me to judge how people enjoy their hobbies and spend their money.

No reason to doubt honest bidding now! Keep fingers crossed and look forward to seeing the win on the NF if the N&N keeps it a surprise to the buyer alone. If I am correct to assume the coin is to be delivered to Germany, there should be no legal challenges for it to be shipped within the EU. This may put off some US buyers, who may be more reluctant to make a binding bid without knowing the content. With wishes of best provenance!

Can hardly be more intrigued - I do not know who they are, where they are, where their coins are coming from and now what coin I am offered to bid on. 🙂

I guess the bidders could be related to the N&N LONDON LTD team itself. It would make sense for their advert campaign to show it sells to the bidder's advantage.

Another major loss from the French Royal collection was the heaviest known Byzantine gold medallion of Justinian I, weighing 1/2 pound. The original was found near Caesarea in Cappadocia in 1751. Fortunately, the British Museum has an electrotype copy https://www.britishmuseum.org/collection/object/C_B-11501 More coins were stolen from Musée de Douai in 2021, including a very rare and important Anastasius solidus from Houdain-lès-Bavai Hoard. https://coinsweekly.com/complete-celtic-hoard-stolen-from-museum/

Cannot see the date on the coins - should have 43 BC - look suspicious 🙂

Today I felt the bidding was reasonable. A few nice/rare lots expected heavy bidding, but there were a few unsolds as well. I wanted one coin, and I got it for only slightly above the expected average. Not a terribly exciting lot, but it is still a single-die variety, a die-match of the Bibliothèque nationale piece and the better one of the three known from trade. So, I do not complain. During their recent big auction, the location of the remote bidders could be seen by the flags of their countries. The bidding was heavy at the session I was interested in, driven by American bidder(s).

1. Classic hunter - certainly, however hopelessly I may keep narrowing my collecting focus. I like the idea of hunting down that one final most precious piece, whatever adventures this may bring (I have a candidate piece in mind). 7. Researcher - certainly, to justify to myself the purpose of the hobby. 9. Historian - very much so, with a reflection that centuries apart, we are still very same people. I feel 4. Perfectionist conflicts with 1. I found the balance to this by being 1. for a focused collection area and 4. for coins outside it. I am on a watch for my first perfect RR denarius. 6. Self-exposer - I hope not, but being a human, it would be hard to be completely free of this, I suppose.

Just realised that I showed the above coin before, so a couple of other similar coins. From Mike R Vosper Coins (UK), 2017 Roma Numismatics Limited. 2022.

I find Visigothic solidi from the early Anastasian period more charming and better made than many imperial coins. These solidi have been found across Western Europe, but the highest number of documented finds comes from Sweden, or more precisely from one island - Gotland. All Gotland solidi are from different finds: Bjärs hoard, Botes hoard, Bander hoard, Harkvie hoard, and Bäcks find. It is possible they were used for payments related to Theodoric's Italian war with Odovacer, where Visighots actively supported their eastern keen. The finds, along with the abundance of other Anastasian coins found on Gotland, raise speculation of relatively close links between inhabitants of Gotland and the Goths. Another interesting fact is that England has the second highest number of documented finds: Colchester 1 Find, Colchester 2 Find, Little Burstead Find in Essex, and Shorwell Find. The condition of the Shorwell coin is not great, and it can be a bit later issue. Does it suggest active trade or participation of the Brits in the war? In all probability, the coins were minted in South France, and drawing of old hoards (Chinon) suggest their presence. French finds may dominate when access to local French museums improves. Numismatik Lanz München, 2016. Ex Roma Numismatics, Auction 8. 28/09/2014; Ex Heritage Auctions, 2012 September Signature World & Ancient Coin Auction. 06/09/2012.

There are so many exceptional coins on this thread! Forgive me for my ignorance. For the types with serrated edges, were all coins made serrated, or there were both serrated and smooth-edged coins within the same type?

Thank you, Al Kowsky. The Mare Nostrum Hoard is hugely important and, being at all probability completed around 493, has beautiful rare Anastasian coins and many very nice and rare Zeno (Odovacer/Visighoths, etc) coins. It is still being sold. I have bought a few of Anastasian coins - bidding gets heated for better coins, and I am sure I will be at a loss if I sell. At auction XXVIII, Roma stopped identifying coins from the hoard, but they can be identified by style across Roman, Migration periods and Byzantine coins. It has not been published, and I cannot see any insensitive for Roma to do so now. My count shows 274 sold from 426 reported by Roma before the initial sale. So there are about 150 coins to go unless some are sold privately - I will cry if I cannot see them all. I am not even worried about the exact find spot (likely in water) as the content tells enough. I just want to see them all. During the last Roma auction, I noticed heavy bidding from the US, so the buyers must be confident of the legitimate provenance. Shanna Schmidt re-sells some of them (including at Vcoins).

Indeed, the attribution is uncertain, and the next find can change it. I do not follow Odovacer’s ‘Zeno’ coins very closely. However, the candidates for key Italian mints are plentiful, and the evolution of their productions starts taking shape: Rome coins are neat, and those from other mints are of increasingly crude style. Your coin is outside the common ‘crudeness’ of later Odovacer’s coins and of rather nice style. The shape of the hand holding the spear and the style of the ‘wave and dots’ pattern on the vertical and horizontal bands do have a likeness to the later ‘Burgundian’ coins. This is a link to the ANS coin with the same ‘Officina I’ as yours. http://numismatics.org/collection/1944.100.84986?lang=en The havoc of the Theoderic Italian wars disrupted minting in Milan (which was destroyed) and Ravenna (experienced a lengthy siege) and influenced others outside. Piecing them together is hard, and every unusual coin counts. I recently bought a Zeno Constantinople coin linked die-link to Anastasius (in a museum collection) - I only wish the same for Western types. NB. Burgundian’ coins are at a premium to most Italian coins of Anastasius and maybe even more so for Zeno! The other coin is also interesting. Again, I do not know them well, but I can match them to the Anastasian series of both Imperial and Italian styles.

I do not know the details of Greek law, but I doubt it is specific where the coins owned by the state are stored or displayed. It might be legit to pass the Eid Mar aureus to a distinguished individual for 'storage' and 'public engagement', such as showing off at parties.

This is a very nice and numismatically interesting coin. It may be linked to the scarce but likely substantial issue of Anastasius below and helps date the issue to the late Zeno's and early Anastasius's reigns. For proof the link misses an ANASTASIVS PERP (491-492) transitional type - I hope it appears. If the link is correct, the issue is related to the conduct and spoils of the 489-493 Theodoric’s conquest of Italy from Odovacer. I know 16 Anastasius coins of this type from 11 obverse and reverse dies with 35 predicted dies (700,000 coins if 20,000 coins were minted using a die pair). Fritz Rudolf Künker GmbH & Co. KG. Auction 304. 19/03/2018 The solidi were produced with three 'officinae' marks: A, Ǝ, and I. Their good style and 'officinae' may link them to good style VPW tremisses, which also used A, Ǝ, I 'officinae'. If correct, this helps to date these tremisses. Gorny & Mosch Giessener Münzhandlung. Auction 228. 09/03/2015. The later evolution of the solidi is not very clear. They have been followed by a small issue of the coins below, of which I only know 3 coins from 3 different die pairs. Their later issue is supported by using longer spears that break the legend and eventually nearly reach the rim. This development is well observed on Visigothic solidi and is typical of later Anastasian coins in Gaul. Classical Numismatic Group, Inc. Triton XXIV. 19/01/2021. The issue seems to be completed by a single coin (which I do not own) of a more 'barbaric' style, which may be due to the minting city being affected by one of the numerous wars of the period. The 'barbarous' style of the last coin may indicate a takeover by Franks as Burgundians and Visigoths produced coins of good style during the early Anastasian period. These coins are often attributed to Burgundians. Perhaps so. Both Visigoths and Burgundians were active during the Theodoric's war. They should have had a considerable amount of gold to produce the coins, Visigoths as payment for supporting Theodoric and Burgundians from spoils of invading Liguria and later from ransom paid by Theodoric for the prisoners being returned to Italy. Clovis's Francs were unlikely to be the issuers as they took advantage of the war by attacking the north of the Visigothic realm and other campaigns in the north. Visigoths produced differen rather well-defined coin series, which leaves Burgundians likely candidates. If so, which of the Burgundian princes minted them, Gundobad in Lyon, Chilperic II in Valence, or Godegisel in Geneva? The good style makes it more likely by an established mint of Lyon. In this case, the last ‘barbaric’ coin could be minted during the year 500 war when Clovis chased Gundobad down to Avignon. Sadly, there are too few finds recorded. Solidi: Rhenen find, Utrecht, Netherlands, now in the National Museum of Antiquities in Leiden. Lenormant does not record the source of the coin know to him, but he typically published coins found in France (Lenormant C. Lettres à M. de Saulcy sur les plus anciens monuments numismatiques de la série mérovingienne. Revue Numismatique. 1853. pp. 99-139; 277-316.) Tremisses: Two in the 1845 Gourdon Hoard hoard Tow in the 1804 Alise-Saint-Reine (Alesia) Hoard This might support the Burgundian origin, but both hoards were buried much later - after the Anastasius reign. PS. Everything above are only my speculations!

Interesting. There may be some value thresholds? The pattern was different for lower value items (banknotes, which I sold off later). DHL has been my firm favourite. Parcerlforce - I am dealing with them even today, to get refund for the last MDC sale delivery. PS. I also want to avoid ending up not paying the due Import VAT. If the postage company does not do this, the buyer still has the legal duty to pay (I understand). The previous low-value banknotes were mainly from eBay, which charged 20% tax during purchase (annoying, but too much hassle to deal with!). Usually, there was no additional tax on delivery. I collected them to fill in the buying urge, but eventually, they became a distractor, with too many of them and gradually slipping to more expensive items.

In the UK, there is a 5% Import VAT on numismatic items (plus £12-14 handling fees), which is fair. It is annoying when a delivery invoice shows 20%. Paying it is the only option (or the coins are sent back). The refund process from HMRC is robust but requires extra time filling out a form, printing it, and posting it with evidence. My experience of wrong Import VAT added: Parcelforce: always FedEx: often DHL: uncommon I tried contacting PacelForce once to correct the invoice - they refused.

@Kaleun96 On reflection, I retract my 'I suspect most coins people try to smuggle from Turkey and Greece are incidental finds, often on their own land.'. There was a clear spike in coin finds since metal detecting became widespread in the UK and elsewhere, and finds by metal detecting are deliberate rather than incidental. Even if metal detecting is less common (or prohibited) in Greece and Turkey, illegal searchers use it. Still, if Google's translation from Greek is any good, the linked articles are not convincing that large-scale looting is a major problem in Greece. One article repeats the known Eid Mar aureus story; the other refers to a trial that has yet to be completed (if understood correctly). The trial case refers to 2,024 coins confiscated by authorities and 600 coins repatriated from Munich during the investigation started in 2015. It would be interesting to know how many coins reached the Archeological Museum in Athens over the same period for comparison.

Not at all! A very interesting discussion. I may sound like a Looter's Advocate, which I am not at all - I do agree with your reasoning! It just helps to consider the perspectives of different parties involved.

I suspect most coins people try to smuggle from Turkey and Greece are incidental finds, often on their own land. What options do people have? - To give the coins to authorities. I have heard this may put people into trouble as they may be suspected of not returning all coins and investigated. - To keep them. From Greek friends, I have heard that many families keep ancient coins they found (which could be a long time ago). - To try selling the coins, feeling it is unfair for the governments to take away from them what they found on their own land, especially if they struggle financially, and they approach grey dealers. These people may not see it as looting and organised crime, but governments may.