Sol_Invictus

@shanxi - Very nice coin and write-up! I have an Aretas IV + Shaqilath coin that seems to be the most common/popular Nabataean coin. It has turned out to be one of my favorite coins, which I certainly wasn't expecting when I purchased it! There is something about the busts, desert patina, and Aramaic letters that I find especially appealing in hand. King Aretas IV & Queen Shaqilath, Kingdom of Nabataea, 9 BC - 40 AD. AE18, Petra mint, 18mm, 4 grams. Obv: Jugate busts right of Aretas IV, laureate, and Queen Shaqilath, draped; Aramaic letters. Rev: Crossed cornucopiae; Aramaic legend 'Aretas, Shaqilath' in three lines. GIC-5699 ex. Frank Robinson.

I personally don’t generally care about the identity of the person who previously owned a coin, but I do care that I can prove to customs that I’m allowed to import the coin if challenged. I also care that the party that I am interacting with directly, i.e. the auction house, is not lying to me. If the consignor tells the auction house that they acquired a coin privately in 1980, and that provenance is included in the listing, but the consignor actually dug up the coin in Turkey last month, I don’t blame the auction house, it’s the consignor who was lying. If, however, the auction house is required by local laws, or the code of ethics that it purports to subscribe to, to look into this further, but didn’t, or if the coin is one of thirty similar coins all covered in dirt, then I do fault the auction house for listing the false provenance. If the auction house pays someone to produce a false document claiming the coin was in a 19th century collection, then I certainly blame the auction house. If the auction house is knowingly lying about provenances, how can I trust them about other aspects of the trade? If the auction house is lying they risk legal action against themselves, like we have seen, which may taint all of the coins they have sold, potentially affecting their resale value. This also risks the possibility that legal action could be brought against you, the buyer, for possessing stolen goods. Even if you didn’t know that the coins were looted, there is a risk, however slight, that law enforcement could argue that you should have known they were looted because you bought from an auction house known to deal in looted material. As much as I love this hobby, the only risk I’m willing to take to participate in it is the risk of losing money.

These are excellent points.

In light of these various reports, I’m curious as to which auction houses, if any, people consider to be most likely to actually be trustworthy? To me trustworthy means not intentionally misrepresenting coins, such as faking provenances, selling modern fakes, or knowingly selling coins that they don’t have a clear title to (stolen or looted material that they know is illegal for them to sell in whatever country they’re selling from; or failing to make a good faith effort to do whatever due diligence may be required in their country to verify title/provenance). I personally consider shill bidding to be a secondary issue, even if it’s deceptive, since there is nothing forcing me to bid more than I’m willing to pay for the coin.

I was amused to see that the last time the nytimes covered an EID MAR coin appears to have been in 1920 to report that a denarius had been sold at auction for $140 https://www.nytimes.com/1920/05/28/archives/roman-coin-sold-for-140-eid-mar-denarius-brings-top-price-at-hc.html?searchResultPosition=1 Thats $4200 in today’s dollars. Pretty decent real appreciation over 103 years.

I received the wrong coin a few months ago from a vcoins dealer. The coin I received was about $100 more than the coin I ordered. It was domestic shipping via usps, so the shipping cost would only be a few dollars. When I let the dealer know, offering to return the coin in exchange for the one I ordered, he was very gracious and apologetic. He said I could either keep the coin I received in place of the one I had ordered, I could return the coin and he would ship the one I ordered all at no extra cost to me, or I could keep the one I received and he would also send the one I ordered if I paid again its purchase price. I decided to go with the first option since the coin I received checked the same box for me as the one I ordered, but was just larger and nicer.

I was surprised by this as well, but do not know enough about this area to appreciate what subtleties might have made the coin especially rare/valuable. I did feel that in general the bids were rather aggressive for this collection, but then again, the collection had a lot of very nice looking coins!

The Mamertines, Messana, 241 - 220 BC, AE Trias, 20mm, 5.22g Obv: Helmeted head of Ares to right Rev: Aphrodite standing to left, holding uncertain object (Nike?) and sceptre; four pellets (mark of value) and [ΜΑΜΕΡΤΙΝΩΝ] to left. Särström Series XXIA, 403-4; HGC 2, 862, ex. Roma Numismatics 2022, Anders Collection Auction, lot 448. This is Roma's photo, which is much better than mine. Galerius Maximianus, as Caesar, 293 - 305 AD. AE Fraction (Radiatus), Cyzicus Mint, 23 mm, 2.72 g. Obv: GAL VAL MAXIMIANVS NOB CAES. Bust of Galerius, radiate, draped, cuirassed, right. Rev: CONCORDIA MI-LITVM. Galerius, standing right, receiving small Victory+globe from Jupiter. Jupiter standing left with sceptre. KA mint mark. RIC VI Cyzicus 19b; ex. Savoca 2023, Blue Auction 154, lot 1526. This is Savoca's photo, which is much better than mine.

If only the American approach could be this sensible. Instead even the most common Greek bronze coin needs a provenance extending back 10 years in order to be imported. Similarly for every Chinese cash coin from the Tang dynasty and earlier, or every coin that circulated primarily within Turkey (whatever that means; here the provenance only needs to go back to before June 2021), and so on for a growing list of countries (16 to date). The restrictions seems to only be increasing. I think this is why many people here are concerned that provenances will be required for everything eventually, at least if you want to be able to sell coins to the US. I think this stems from the general lack of history in America. In my community a house that was built in the early 1900s is considered historic. Having something more than 1000 years old just blows people’s minds. The only place people generally encounter such items are in a museum or a university, so I think people tend to feel like all things that old are rare, extremely valuable, and belong exclusively in those places. The only exception to this would be Native American artifacts, like arrowheads, or extremely old natural items like fossils, which many people have experience encountering on hikes. But even the collection of those has become a touchy subject lately.

I was excited to recently win a few of the lower end coins from the recent Leu auction. The coins are of a type that is restricted for import by one of the US MOUs, but have a named provenance that places them outside the country they were minted in long before the MOU went into effect. This is my first time winning coins from Leu, and I just wanted to check whether anyone knows if they will automatically produce the necessary statements needed to satisfy US customs, or do I need to specifically request these from them? TIA

Even for credit or bank cards that charge no foreign transaction fees they still use a payment network that applies its own conversion rate. If you are using a Visa credit card to make the payment you can see their daily exchange rate at This link This rate is fixed for the day and you can compare it to the rate you would get from wise.com

Link: wreath Mysia, Kyzikos, Civic issue, 200 BC - 18 BC, AE18, 18mm, 5.96 grams; Obv: Head of Kore right, wearing wreath of grain; Rev: KY-ZI above and beneath YΣ monogram, all within oak wreath. SNG Cop 69; BMC 152

Elizabeth I, England, 1558 - 1603 AD. AR 1 Penny. Obv: Crowned bust of Elizabeth I left. Legend - [E D G ROSA SINE SPINA]. Rev: Quartered shield of arms over cross fourchee. No date. Legend - [CI]VI[TAS LONDON] And a coin that could have fit into earlier time periods in addition to the 1550-1600 range: Ferdinand V and Isabella, Castile and Leon, 1497 - 1566 AD. Billon Blanca, Toledo Mint. Obv: FERNANDVS ET ELISABET. Crowned F. Rev: REG E] REGINA CAST LEGION. T + M, crowned V. Castan Cayon 1969. ex. David Connors (this is his image). And one that has a very poorly constrained date, including the 1550 - 1600 range: Java, Palembang Sultanate, 1400 - 1821 AD. Tin Cash. Obv: Arabic inscription with a round hole in the center. Rev: Plain as made. ex. Forum Ancient Coins.

It’s a little over an hour west of Philadelphia, and indeed is in the middle of Pennsylvania Dutch country. There are a lot of people of German descent around there, but those who actually speak the German dialect called Pennsylvania Dutch are mostly Amish and Mennonites, who lead a rural 19th century lifestyle. I’m not sure if those are the sort of German immigrants you have in mind 😀?

Hongwu Emperor, China, Ming Dynasty, 1368 - 1398 AD. AE Cash, 23mm, 4g, Obv: 洪武通寶 (HONG WU TONG BAO), Rev: Blank, inner and outer rims; Hartill 20.57.

Those are some beautiful coins! I have a Licinius I GENIO that has one of my favorite portraits from among all of my Roman imperial coins. I find the style interestingly different from most other Licinius I portraits - he looks a little less thick-necked than usual here. Licinius I, 313-315 AD, AE follis, Trier mint, 21mm, 2.54g. Obv: LICINIVS P F AVG, Bust of Licinius, laureate, draped, cuirassed, right. Rev: GENIO - POP ROM, Genius, standing left, holding patera and cornucopiae; TF in field; PTR in ex., RIC VII Treveri 57; ex. Bourton on the Water Hoard 1970; ex. Huddersfield collection 1979; ex. Den of Antiquity 2022. This is a dealer photo.

To the extent that an NFT is a public transaction record that’s hard to fake or manipulate, using NFTs to track the provenance going forward of ancient coins as well as other antiquities and artwork is perhaps not entirely without merit. It’s actually one of the only cases I can think of where something like an NFT could be useful. But it’s not clear that this would provide any real advantage over existing public auction records. In practice it would probably just be cumbersome to use, and would not be widely adopted.

Thank you very much for the clear explanation of the situation!

As an American collector I have been trying to keep up with, and comply with, the various US import restrictions on ancient coins. To that end I have found the Ancient Coin Import Restrictions list maintained by the ACCG to be an invaluable reference. Since there is no mention there of restrictions on Iranian coins, I have assumed that Persian or Islamic coins minted in what is now Iran are unrestricted. Recently I was reading through the Auction Terms on biddr for Timeline Auctions, and came across a note that "Auction lots ... of either Persian or Iranian origin are subject to United States trade restrictions which currently prohibit their import into the US, without exception." A quick search reveals that indeed US CBP has seized Iranian antiquities, and that the basis for this appears to be the general embargo on importing anything from Iran into the US. Presumably this law is meant to prevent money from flowing into the Iranian economy, so it's a bit surprising that it could be used to prevent import of antiquities or coins that may have left Iran long before the current regime came to power. Does anyone know more about this? Is there a restriction on importing Persian/Iranian coins into the US?

Lovely coins with beautiful toning! I had not heard about the connection between the US dollar sign ($) and the Potosi mintomark - very interesting! I have a Carolus IIII as well, which I picked up a couple months ago. This coin is from Mexico, dated 1802. It has a few chop-marks, which I really like - it's neat to think about the long journey such a coin made around the 19th century world.

Apparently these opinions are controversial 🙂: 1. I don’t own an Athenian owl tetradrachm, but I would love to get one if I could afford it. I think they’re stunningly beautiful and incredibly interesting! I find it amazing to consider that these were made and exchanged in such vast numbers that peoples around the Mediterranean continued to copy their designs hundreds of years after they were no longer produced, and a large number of these coins have survived to this day. 2. I love Chinese bronze cash coins! It’s amazing to me that this basic coin design persisted in China for over two thousand years, and that people who can read Chinese characters can still read and understand the characters on these coins from 300 BCE. I find the different styles of calligraphy fascinating and beautiful.

The only auction house I bought from last year was Roma (13 coins, including 3 fixed price unsolds). The vcoins dealers I purchased from last year are: David Connors - 6 coins Ken Dorney - 6 coins Incitatus - 3 coins Den of Antiquity - 2 coins Aegean Numismatics - 1 coin Washington Numismatic Gallery - 1 coin

I use the stackable coin boxes from Lighthouse https://www.lighthouse.us/coin-boxes-with-square-compartments.html which are a good deal less expensive than Abafil (especially if you are in the US), and come in a variety of layouts. My preferred layout for ancients has 38 mm X 38 mm compartments which fit most ancients, including many of the larger bronzes (no Ptolemaic hockey pucks though!). I print tags out on acid-free archival card-stock which I keep under the coins.

This Carinus was my first ancient coin. I chose it because I really wanted to be able to make out the inscription, and I also particularly liked the portrait. Note these are the dealer's photos, not mine. Carinus, Antoninianus, 283-285 CE, 22mm, 3.66g, 5h, Rome mint Obv: IMP C M AVR CARINVS AVG, radiate, draped and cuirassed bust right Rev: AEQVITAS AVGG / KAZ (in ex), Aequitas standing left, holding scales and cornucopia Ref: RIC 238 ex. Sebastian Sondermann

Here is my recently acquired man-faced bull, also missing its face: Panormos (as Ziz), Sicily, 336 - 330 BCE, AE26, 11.21g, 2h Obv: Head of Hera to left, wearing stephane Rev: Man-headed bull standing to left, head facing; radiate head of Helios above; [ṢYṢ (in Punic)] in exergue Ref: CNS 5; HGC 2, 1057 corr. (dates) ex. Roma Numismatics, Anders Collection, Lot 45 (this is their photo).