Limes

Horrible, that it happened!

I dont think this is a coincidence, and as @ambr0ziementions, it seems your coins have been stolen, as it seems very unlikely that what happened, happened accidentally. Because normally, when I receive coins, they are packed in a square, flat cardboard package, that is "glued" tight shut (I dont know how to say it in English). It's impossible for coins themselves to fall out. Even if the coin arrives in an envelop and not a box, the coin itself is always secured. I don't see how it can 'fall out' through a small hole. Impossible, uneless the coins were packed horrible manner, which I dont believe seeing one of your shipments was from Roma and I have experienced myself how they pack their coins. 

Therefore, some advice / thoughts:

1) Indeed, see if shipments can be organised in another manner, not via your local post office. 

2) File a claim at the local office, and DHL, stating your package was delivered open and the content is missing. Say you will file a claim at the local police. If one of their staff is stealing coins, its a bad sign for all the other staff as well. 

3) File a claim at the local police, and notify the postal office/ DHL. I would do this here, as it might speed up the process at the local office / DHL to investigate the matter too, and prevent it from happening again. And may help with an insurance claim. 

4) And of course, but you will have done so, contact the seller. 

Great design again (and great coin too)! I see you've kept your other designs in the background? If you keep building, you can turn your home into a Lego Rome museum 🙂 

To add a coin, here's Mars: 

hi, well, Brutus is very popular, and his coins fetch a high price. Some suggestions: if youre not an expert, dont go on Ebay. Coins there are either way overpriced, or fake. If you want to go for a Brutus coin, you could try an issue when Brutus was moneyer, before the murder of Caesar. Coins after the murder (Brutus as one of the tyrannicides) fetch a higher fee, but the exception may be his Libertas issue (54 BC), which for some reason sells for insane prices. 

Take a look on acsearch (simply search using 'Brutus') for available types. I'd go for an auction house. You can add search terms for your want list, on numisbids to help your search. It can also be done for biddr (think they are called 'searches'). I don't know your budget, but if youre in the 3.400 dollar range, it wont be difficult to find a coin.... 🙂

Here are my two coins, both after the murder. Both I got via auctions. 

On 11/8/2022 at 9:11 PM, Julius Germanicus said:

I bought this coin as a replacement for my beloved first Sestertius of Lucius Verus featuring a great portrait and superb toning that was sadly among the five of my bronzes that were stolen while handled by USPS earlier this year:

 

still brakes my heart reading this! Glad you found a nice replacement coin. Here is my one sestertius of Verus.

10 hours ago, DonnaML said:

Private massage? Hey, this is a family-friendly forum!

Well, I do have lower back pain, so... 😉

1 hour ago, David Atherton said:

Lots of speculation passed on as historical facts in the first 3 episodes covering the Flavian era. 

Neat CGI recreations though.

Yup. Quoting ancient sources as pure facts. I didnt like the look of the actors playing Titus and Domitianus either ... Ah well, its entertaining nevertheless.

@robinjojobeat you to it 😉

Its a great discovery nevertheless. Its all over the news here too.

8 hours ago, CPK said:

Looks quite nice to me! If you want a really horrible Claudius denarius you should have bid on this one. 😉 

biddr - Savoca Coins, Blue | 137th Blue Auction, lot 743. Claudius AD 41-54. Rome Denarius AR 19 mm, 3,12 g fine

I think I bid about 50 euros for it, but there's a case of a coin being just too bad (despite the rarity and usual high prices) for my taste.

Haha, thanks! 

And I hope that the person who got the Claudius denarius, is happy with it. It does raise another question: how 'low' quality does one find acceptable. Claudius is a very difficult emperor to get in silver. But I dont think I would add that coin to my collection. 

I held this coin in hand, in May this year. I was in doubt whether to go for it or not. In the end I did not, because it did not appeal to me enough, because of the wear and pitting, even though many details were visible. I dont regret it (well, maybe just a tiny bit...). I draw a line sometimes, I guess.... Would others have done the same?

21 minutes ago, kirispupis said:

I sincerely hope that no one here picked up the coin based on your mention, but as a general rule you shouldn't mention a coin unless you've already locked it up. It's just way too tempting for someone to pick up something of interest.

There are some here who won't even post a coin they've purchased but haven't received yet, for fear of jinxing the postal delivery.

Recently, I was so paranoid about it that in the alphabet thread, I was going to post a Sabakes tet for "S", but held back. The reason: I was bidding on an Okhos tet a few days later and I was worried that my Sabakes example would lead someone to look up other Archaemenid Egyptian tets and bid on mine. I'm not sure if that helped, but I did win the coin. 🙂

On our "previous" forum there was an individual, who thankfully is not on this one, who used to post coins at auction and ask about bidding on them, and they were consequently bid up. I'm not sure if it was forum members bidding or just her lack of understanding of the value - and that such coins would be bid up, but AFAIK she didn't win any. I always wondered whether they were her coins in the first place and she was trying to drive up prices, but I digress.

Yes, be careful, on the other hand, its difficult to know what to do when youre new  to the hobby and have questions about a coin you want to purchase. @Hughie DwyerPerhaps try to send a private message to a member of this board. If you have a question you can ask me, and ill try to help you as best as I can (I dont have all the knowledge in the world though!)

Attractive obverse! 

Here's the one I got this year. I don't have any other bronzes of Septimius Severus. 

1 hour ago, kapphnwn said:

I have the same type except mine is a sestertius

Trajan Ae Sestertius 107-108 AD Obv Bust right  laureate drapery on far shoulder. Rv, Facade of octastyle temple with cult figure standing within the two innermost columns. RIC 575 Woytek 302bD This Coin illustrated 25.18 grms 33 mm Photo by W. Hansen

It is most likely a depiction of the Temple of Honos. On many reverses the cult figure is somewhat indistinct however on others the figure is clearly togate and carrying a cornucopia. On mine the togate figure is rather more clear but the cornucopia less so. Only one deity fits that general description  and that would be Honus, 

Denarius of Marcus Aurelius as Caesar Rv Honos standing facing head left holding branch and cornucopia RIC 429a 3.30 grms 19 mm Photo CNG E Auction 460 Lot 659  January 29 2020

 

 

Note Woytek does identify the Temple as Honus? Elkins appears to come to no definite conclusion. Hill concludes that the Temple is one dedicated to both Honus and Virtus. I think much of the resistance to the idea that this edifice is a Temple to Honus revolves around the idea that such an imposing structure would be constructed for such a purpose. Further as Trajan does not explicitly state which deity is being honored it does create an issue. 

Thanks for showing your sestertius. I believe you posted this before, its a lovely example with an impressive bust. 

Its interesting to think that for us it's a mystery who's temple we are dealing with here. But to think for the Romans; its likely that for them it was pretty clear what the Best of the Princes' did and what temple it was. So there's perhaps not need to make it explicit on the coins, just as long as its clear who did it. 

I dont know how much it is listed for, is it 200? Personally, I think there are definitely better coins for that money out there. Take a look at e.g. MA shops, or on biddr. Trajan also has coins with more interesting reverses, but thats a matter of taste of course! 

Thanks for the article, I liked reading it. To answer your question, I echo the words of @sand, above. What's the reason for me to buy a coin? Is it because of the reverse, that makes me want it? Or is the emperor I'm after quite rare, and difficult to obtain? Or am I looking for the best portrait I can get within my budget? I will settle for a horrible denarius of Claudius, with a must-have reverse, simply because a better example is unafforable.

Another thought entered my head. There are many variables that influence the price of a coin, and many of those a very unpredictable. For example, I wonder what if the third coin you list was not offered by NAC, but by al lesser renowned German auction house? Would that make it sell for less? Or what if it was slabbed, and offered via Heritage? Would that increase the price? And there's ofcourse the possibility of two Sabina fanatics entering into a bidding war... Basically, what I'm trying to say is, that although generally speaking a better coin is worth more, the better coin is not always worth the price. (Does this make sense??)

Hi there, 

Yesterday I watched a new series on History Channel. Its about the Colosseum, and has 8 parts. Here in the Netherlands, the show started yesterday and is available on normal cable network. Here's the link for more info: https://www.history.com/shows/colosseum 

Its quite entertaining, and next to enacted scenes, various scholars are interviewed giving it a bit of an educational feel as well. But, as with other shows such as 'Roman Empire' on netflix, its more about the entertainment. Nevertheless, I recommend it. 

And here's a coin of one of the main characters of the first episode, with a fitting reverse theme:

Thanks for the comments! The theory posted by @Zarco by M. Tameanko sounds interesting. Coincidentally, I've corresponded with David about the book by forementioned author, and ordered it. I do wonder two things. One, is the possibility of the statue of beging of Trajan. Would this mean the statue would have been there before his death? I thought that worshipping living emperors at that time and in such an explicit manner was a taboo? Will have to look into that. Second, the explanation of Hadrian not having places the monument on his coins, could be the case, but is however not very strong, as many emperors before and after him have put monuments on their coins that they did not build, but finished, or repaired. Anyway, whatever the case, I'll doubt we will ever know for certain... 

@David Atherton, just wanted to add that your Domitian coin is absolutely magnificent. I have never seen it before, very rare indeed. An excellent addition to an excellent collection. 

@Orange Julius, thanks for sharing your imposing coin. It's a drachm, I assume? There are many, many temples depicted on provincial coins, its overwhelming. If I were to start collecting those, I think I'll be unable to ever complete it... 🙂

Hello everyone,

One of my latest acquisitions is an interesting (and in my opinion absolutely lovely!) AE As of Trajan, with a temple reverse. The identity of the reverse however is uncertain and various sources identify it differently. However, if the sources are compared, it seems the majority points in the same direction. A note before I start: when it comes to sources, I have to do with a limited amount. I don't have BMC or RIC, so I look online (acsearch, wildwinds, ocre). I do have some books (Sear, van Meter, etc) and of course there are articles online. So, if you happen to have sources that shed another or additional light on this matter, please feel free to add it in this discussion! 

My coin is an AE As, and there's also a sestertius version of this type. It caused a bit of confusion on my side, that both have the same RIC number: 575. There's also a dupondius (RIC 567) on wildwinds, and the reverse is described as showing the temple of Pax. It however looks the same as RIC 575. RIC 577 also shows a temple, but a different one with 'side porticos' that is mentioned by Van Meter in his book, unlike RIC 575. This coin shows the temple of Jupiter Victor. The 'temple coins' were not part of  the coinage commemorating Trajan's building projects, which includes coins showing the Via Traiana, the Aqua Traiana and the famous Forum of Trajan. Sear dates my temple AE As at 107 AD, just before the decennalia of Trajan. This appears to correspond with Clive Foss (p. 97) who mentions that the temples of Honos and Venus Genetrix had already been restored before that anniversary. The building of the Via Traiana for example, commenced in 109 AD. 

Now, about the sources: 

• RIC: RIC identifies the temple shown on the AE as as the temple of Pax. The temple  is to be sought in the provinces. The sestertius (RIC  575) is identified as the temple of Venus Genetrix (via https://www.wildwinds.com). 
• Sear (p. 112, 116):  Sear cites Hill, stating that the temple is the temple of Honos. The temple was part of the twin-temple complex of Honos and Virtue, and situated outside the Porta Capena in Rome's First Region. No remains are existent today (wikipedia). According to Sear, RIC 577 shows the temple of Jupiter Victor, at the north eastern corner of the Palatine. 
• Hill: Philip Hill (pp. 9-10):  Hill refers to the large series of bronze struck by Trajan to commemorate his tenth anniversary, and identifies the figure as Honos (picture 1 shows the sestertius), since it is identical with on of the figures on the 'Honos and Virtus' types of Galba, Vitellius and Vespasian. Hill also states that it is impossible to identify the temple exactly, since details of the temple are lost, but because a large and imposing building is shown, we may assume it is the temple dedicated to Honos and part of the twin-temple complex with Virtus. (Do note the reference to the tents anniversary, which contradicts with Clive Foss.)
• Clive Foss (p. 97, 102): Prior to his decennalia, Trajan had restored the temples of Honos and Venus Genetrix. Two coins show the restored temples: RIC 575 (sestertius and AE as) shows the temple of Honos (as and sestertius), and RIC 577 shows the temple of Venus Genetrix. 
• Ursula Kampmann (2009) in Coinsweekly (https://coinsweekly.com/a-temple-for-honos/) identifies the temple as the temple of Honos. She theorizes that temple is shown on the coin because Trajan had received the title 'to the best of princes' by the people of Rome and the Senate.

Many auction houses follow RIC and identify the temple as the temple of Pax, or leave the identification vague and merely mention a 'temple with "Kultbild"'. 

Some question remain, however. For one, I don't understand why RIC differentiates between the temple of Pax for the AE As and the temple of Venus Genetrix for the Sestertius. Both statues look identical to me. Another issue is that Hill shows the sestertius in his book, mentions a 'large series of bronze', but does not mention the difference between the AE As and the sestertius as mentioned in RIC, and links the issue to the decennalia of Trajan (105 - 107 AD). Enough question remain to dive deeper into this coin, and other coins part of the series and the dating. If only I had more time .... 

Hoping to hear what other members of this board think! And please post your temple coins, your Trajan's or coins with a mystery! 

Books:
Sear, Roman coins and their values II, reprinted 2010.
Philip Hill, The monuments of Ancient Rome as Coin Types, 1989
Clive Foss, Roman Historical Coins, 1990
David van Meter, The handbook of Roman Imperial Coins, reprinted, 2000
Online:
Acsearch, wildwinds, coinweekly 

Good on finishing your exams, I hope you passed them! And neat coin, with the 'X' is scarcer indeed. I found the following a while ago, by auction house Kunker (translated from German to English via google translate, piece to be viewed here: https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=2655174😞

The piece celebrates, as Reinhard Wolters was able to prove, the lex Valeria Cornelia and was coined in AD 5 either in Lugdunum for a city-Roman audience or possibly even in Rome itself. The law provided for the establishment of 10 electoral centuries for the primary election of consuls and praetors. The X on the reverse and the choice of the Gaius/Lucius type after the death of Augustus' grandsons can be explained by the fact that the 10 centuries were named after Gaius and Lucius Caesares. For dating, interpretation and mint see Wolters, Gaius and Lucius Caesares as designated consuls and principes iuventutis. The lex Valeria Cornelia and RIC I² 205 ff., in: Chiron 32 (2002), p. 297 ff.

Below is my example (horrible photo's, I need to take new ones), but without the 'X'. I really find the development of the portrait interesting; very stylized in comparison to earlier denarii, and denarii struck when 'Augustus' was just 'Octavian'. 

This has to be the absolute pinacle of your life! I'm envious 😉

Thanks @Roerbakmixand @John Conduitt for the information. I'm still getting my head around the many variants. I found the informative site of the Zeeuws Genootschap, kzgw online, and dive deeper in the world of the E series... 🙂

Congratulations @panzerman! I scored a Galba denarius in yesterdays auction, with a magnificent portrait. 

Caracalla with reversed spear and in military outfit dominating a crocodile....

Fascinating @Roerbakmix. I have a sceatta of the Dorestad mint on my wantlist, for next year. But I'm a bit confused by the determination of mints in various descriptions. Sometimes I see descriptions saying 'Frisian mint (perhaps, or likely Dorsestad)'. Do we know for sure Dorestand had a mint? I see that you mention Frisia in your desciptions. Do you have any advice? 

12 hours ago, Roerbakmix said:

kids are awake 😞 Will post the remaining 7 later!

I can 'high-five' you on this one... Wishing you and your wife the best of health and luck with no. 4 arriving soon (we stopped at three 😉)

Nice catch David. 

Had to share this one. Best of both worlds: good portrait, lovely and interesting reverse. Not a bargain per se (well, compared to todays prices maybe yes), but I have good memories of this one. I used a description found via ACsearch: Ara Providentiae Augusti, which refers to an altar. I dont know the book by Marvin Tameanko, but sounds interesting to see if I can get a copy somewhere. Thanks. 

Thanks for the link (and a little laugh too)! With these kinds of shows, I always take in the message with a bit of salt. Issues may be showns exagerated, because, well, it's a show. But the underlying message is very interesting though. 

On 10/29/2022 at 5:39 PM, Hrefn said:

Which raises the last important point.  If we send cultural treasures “back” to whom should we send them?  Who are the true descendants of the Lydians?   Should we send all British Celtic coins “back” to Wales, since the Welsh are the true cultural remnant of the British Celtic tribes?  Does an aureus of Julian struck in Lugdunum go back to Italy, because Julian was a Roman emperor, and the inscription and cultural milieu were Latin, after all? Or should it go to France, a country which never existed in Julian’s time.  Is Britain ready to return all the Catholic church buildings and monasteries confiscated by Henry VIII to the Catholic Church?  At least as good a case can be made for that, as returning 8th century era museum exhibits to modern African countries.  Why one, and not the other?

 

And this is what I think is contrary to the underlying message. The examples shown in this show surely won't lead to a discussion who the 'owners' should be. And if you use arguments like this, it's too easy to ignore those issues, only because of other artifacts it's impossible to locate the current 'owners'. Why not simply return the obvious (numerous) cases? I simply do not understand why any sane person argues that those things rightfully are owned by a museum (some did in the show though, but those people were clearly insane) that looted them, or bought them as loot, not that long ago. Worried about the way they will be treated? Well, that's not your concern in the first place! You want to study them? Buy a ticket to Nigeria, and study them there. Affraid there wont be anything left on display in European museums? Well, first, bullocks, second, maybe, just maybe, if you act nicely, they will lend you them. But most importantly; it's other peoples heiritage, culture, history. The only right thing to do, is to let them decide what to do with the artifacts. 

9 hours ago, David Atherton said:

I'm just trying to understand what all the fuss is about concerning proper storage (or BD, the coin collecting boogey man) ... is it a marketing thing? Modern anxiety? By some folk's standards today no one pre 1950s or 60s could've collected coins! And no, I won't even bring up slabbing.

 

Maybe I missed what's going on about climate controlled environments for storing coins? I only know those from keeping cigars in fancy restaurants 🙂 A friend has a special refrigirator of some sort for keeping his wine. I'm not fancy enough to taste a difference though.  

Hence, I sure am not 'gentlemen' enough to store coins in a perfectly articificial storage environment. Nope, I simply keep them in a couple of red trays, which stand up in our cabinet, for everyone to see (which in practice means I only look at them because nobody cares). The trays contains squares. One has round spaces in the squares, of 20 mm in size. The other tray just the squares, which measure 40 mm. The first one is for denarii, the second one for the big bronzes. I use round plastic devices for the big bronzes, which I can cut into the right size, and place those in the square, so the coins wont 'slide down'. Some other coins that don't fit (middle bronzes) are in small standards or a small display case. My collection is small (130 something), and I like that I can always look at my coins, take them out, touch them, reorganize them etc. I've bought two coins in slabs, which were taken out, because slabs don't fit in my display cases. 

In a Dutch museum in Leiden (antiquities) there are some denarii on display, of the 12 C's. Those are the only 'old cabinet' toned coins I've seen. They look like the old silverware of grandmother that has not been cleaned for ages. I absolutely love that toning, and even though I dream of it, I don't think that kind of toning will ever be achieved in my cabinet. (If anyone has some advice, please let me know.)

1 hour ago, sand said:

I have a theory, that the difference between bronze disease and green patina is time, at least in some cases. That is, perhaps, bronze disease eventually becomes green patina, at least in some cases, perhaps over hundreds or thousands of years. However, it's just a theory, from my non-expert mind.

 

I've had three issues with BD (collecting for 7 years), when little green, powdery spots emergedon the coin. All three the coins had signs of earlier issues (pitting, no patina on areas), but were to some extent clean when I got them (in my eyes, at least). But nothing that a bath in DW won't fix. I dont think it has to do with the environment in my house. 

As I understand it, the green (and brown, and black) stuff we call patina, is a (mostly) solid layer caused by some sort of chemical reaction between coin and soil, which forms over time and actually protects the coin from the environment. BD on the other hand (and in my limited experience) seems to appear on the areas where there is no patina, and interacts with the core metal in an agressive way, actually biting in to it, so to say, causing e.g. pitting. But then again, I should stop talking now because I'm no expert 🙂 There are online sources on BD and how to treat it though.