Roerbakmix

I finally found some time to properly photograph the coin. The legend is a bit more legible now. Since this thread, I have not made progress in the attribution, of found a similar legend. So far, consensus is that the legend reads (reading clockwise): EVO * * CVS; or alternatively EVO * * DVS. Options on the two uncertain letters are (based on the post by @AnYangMan😞 fouth letter: ‘R’, ‘P’ and ‘L’ become tricky when looking at the other mould. Yet, what is it? Perhaps a C, turned down on the other mould? G? A sort of Lombardic N, which would make reading the 4th letter as a N difficult? fifth letter: N seems most likely, although H or A are also possible. This would result in the following readings: Fouth letter = C : EVOCNCVS, EVOCHCVS, EVOCACVS Fouth letter = G : EVOGNCVS, EVOGHCVS, EVOGACVS Fouth letter = N : EVONNCVS, EVONHCVS, EVONACVS or, with the CVS >> DVS: Fouth letter = C : EVOCNDVS, EVOCHDVS, EVOCADVS Fouth letter = G : EVOGNDVS, EVOGHDVS, EVOGADVS Fouth letter = N : EVONNDVS, EVONHDVS, EVONADVS I really have no clue. Anyway, here is the new photo, please speculate 🙂

I have two questions for the photography experts on this forum (e.g. @Kaleun96, @dougsmit, @kirispupis) 1) I have a Nikon d3200 DSLR, and have recently bought a nikon 60 mm F2.8 auto focus lens, which I also use for portrait photography (nothing too fancy: monthly photo's of my kids. This was of course the argument to persuade my significant other that I needed this lens, but in reality, I wanted to use it for coin photography...). The problem is the working distance: only about 10 cm. In hindsight, I should've bought a 105 mm. So the question is: are there any (cheap) tricks to increase the working distance? 2) I use a poor mans DIY setup (with a different, manual focus lens) for axial lighting and black background which works OK, but it's really difficult to get it right each time. I'm considering a totally different approach, much like the ROMA photo's with the grey background, and also similar to the photos of @kapphnwn. Two questions: what material is used by ROMA? Is it just grey paper, or something more special? Second question: would this type of photo allow me to remove the background in e.g. photoshop easily? Hope I've worded my questions clearly enough; I've got COVID since a few days and am feeling a bit foggy.

Not a naive question. Perhaps, if mr. Beales joins numisforum, we could ask him 🙂

Both, but especially the last photos, are very interesting!

This is a benefit of specializing in a niche 🙂 i have snatched numerous rare and misattributed sceattas this way (one is stuck in Royal Mail).

Very interesting! The provenance (find location) makes this coin interesting. Unfortunately, many auction houses don't disclose that information. I wonder why: it's is relevant information for both collector and researcher.

@Restitutor, is it possible to (1) ignore a specific person, and (2) ignore a thread? This because of the recent discussion initiated and maintained by a user I suspect to be a troll (that remains on the front page).

People, why continue this thread?

I agree, though Metcalf and Op den Velde's studies were quite convincing on a continental mint imho. VERNVS are not extremely rare, though they aren't that common either. I think there are about 100 in auction results and EMC in total (that is, online). It makes you wonder: how many sceattas are there in the boxes of metal detectorists? Meanwhile, I've found a third die match somewhere online. Overlaying all three coins allows to recreate (part of) the die: Unfortunately, the third specimen only provided information on the upper section of the obverse, and not the legend (or ornaments?). Looking for a 4th one which is hopefully also minted off-center. Also, @Nap, I remember you have a decent VERNVS (and a different theory regarding the origin of VERNVS).

I have been following this 10-page thread with much interest, not per se because I'll follow up on the advice here, but mainly because I enjoy the strive for perfection. Please continue!

@Filatclearly behaves like a troll, either intentional or unintentional. I would kindly advise to move on, and let this post sink as to give other posts the attention they deserve.

Thanks @John Conduittand @AnYangMan. Note that I have edited the main post, which was a bit short (and incorrect) on the background of the VERNVS type.

Nice BMC8 you have there…😏

My first addition of 2023 arrived last week at my friend @AnYangMan, who did not forget about the Elsen auction 153 (dec 2022) and bought the main coin I was after in the aftersale (thanks again!). It is a new variety of the VERNVS type, a sceatta that is traditionally attributed to England, though specimens have been found in France, Belgium and The Netherlands (including, probably, one of my three VERNVS types). There is some discussion on the meaning of VERNVS. Blackburn & Bonser speculate that the last three letters (ie NVS) are in fact part of the neck, and that the coin should read "VER", which could be interpreted as wer, the Old English word for Wergild; the legal money equivalent to a man's life. Other (imitative?) specimens read VENOVS or VAIꟼOIBE (alternative interpretation VAIOBE), suggesting a moneyers name instead. VERNVS sceattas are among the earlier sceattas, and were included in the Remmerden hoard (a large, continental hoard including mainly primary phase sceattas. Blackburn suggested a categorization in three groups: and all these groups were found in the Remmerden hoard. This means that, for inspiration, the die cutters could have used Series A and series C (sceattas of the primary phase), which where then abstracted over a short course of time: Metcalf and Op den Velde propose a new theory [JMP 2009], which is, essentially the exact opposite chronology as proposed by Blackburn: ... as far as I understand, mostly based on the reverse design. Long story short, here is the coin, photographed in the coin tray of @AnYangMan close to his superb addition from Elsen (which I hope he'll soon post here as well!) #Cliffhanger. AR sceatta, continental, 'VERNVS'-type. Obv/ Radiate bust to the left (which makes it a new variety), cross-pommée before. VV O below. Rev/ degenerate votive standard, lines and pellets around central pellet-in-annulet. Weight: 0.93g. Some minor deposits on the reverse, otherwise good silver, and attractively toned. Catalogue: new variety, not in JMP 2014. Personal communication with Tony Abramson: included in the corpus as 6-50. Checking ACsearch for VERNVS or VERNUS (32 hits), Sixbid (similar, some overlap), EMC (31 hits), PAS (7 hits, including one hoard), PAN (Dutch PAS, 0 hits), National Dutch Numismatic Collection (0 hits), I identified two others, one (the above) is an obverse and reverse die match to my coin (it doesn't add information on the dies however, as both dies are uniformly centered); the other is of different dies. With this new addition, I now own three VERNVS types, see below the stories of the first two: #1: https://www.cointalk.com/threads/brushing-the-dirt-of-mr-vernvs-who-was-bought-by-accident.372140/ #2: https://www.cointalk.com/threads/the-return-of-mr-vernvs-reunited-after-c-1300-years.381559/ (obv. die match to nr 1; find location in Netherlands).

That is really nice. What is the 'Gallica' you refer to?

Nice haul! I'm most interested in the backstory behind the Charlemagne / Chalres le Chauve denier from Melle. I knew there was some unresolved dispute, and actually once bought this coin (attributed as Chalres le Chauve) for about 100€ (back in 2019 or so), only to sell it as Charlemagne a few months later with a nice profit: I'm curious: what new evidence since then has come to light? The Aachen denier is certainly interesting! I would be most interested to read your thoughts (or the friend you refer to) - perhaps an idea for a new thread? Here is my (currently only) Caroloingian, which I kept as an 'end coin', for my Early Medieval collection. It's not rare, but the toning is spectacular. CAROLINGIAN, Charles II "le Chauve". Denomination: AR Denier (.), minted: Le Mans, France; 834-877 Obv: + GRATIA D-I REX, monogram Rev: + CINOMANIS CIVITAS, cross in the middle Weight: 1.69g; Ø:19mm. Catalogue: Nou.146c-Dep.559-Prou.420. Provenance: Found near Amiens, France; acq.: 01-2020 I sold this one, from BITVRICES, to fund the purchase of my Dronrijp Tremissis, posted earlier.

A cool story (I vaguely remember having read it before - on CT?), and cool pictures of the cave as well! Very few Anglo-Saxon places exist where you can 'feel' the history - I guess this probably was one of those places. Seeing the view over the river, you can almost see Eardwulf contemplating the course of events ... I second your comment on Naps expertise. I've joined a few facebook groups, and always enjoy reading his posts there. I've tried to convince Tony Abramson to join, but he's a bit wary of joining yet another forum. Would have been fun though!

Thanks all for the encouraging comments! I'm currently negotiating a Madelinus tremissis, which will likely be in my top 10 next year (stay tuned! :p)

Thanks for endorsing my posts 🙂 I might be using the maps incorrectly, but I'm unable to view the Merovingian mints? It should be noted however that (as far as I know), only Dorestad (current Wijk bij Duurstede) is known with certainty to have minted 'Frisian coinage' during the Merovingian period - and only gold coins by Madelinus. Dorestad probably minted many sceattas as well (and many are found in that region), however none bear an inscription. Domburg, Zeeland (south / east of NL) was likely a prolific mint, and perhaps Tiel (river delta, close to Domber) minted the scarce (Metcalf and Op den Velde identified about 30 in 2014) Series D BMC 10: The obverse copies the Series C EPA (runic); while the reverse shows a Latin legend "TILV". Point is however, that only a fraction of the continental sceattas have a legend (other than EPA, which is present on nearly all series D BMC 2c's). @Nap and @Tejas have posted a few threads hypothesizing how the minting process worked in the Merovingian 'dark ages'.

Was this the case?

Congrats, nice type. I agree, reverse appears to be a die match (which, given the rarity, isn’t uncommon). here is my ambiani stater.

I had to check twice: which photo is the coin? Very impressive! must have been fun doing this with your daughter:)

With @Naphaving posted his top 10 (link), I'm happily using the momentum to showcase my top 10 2022. I've added 16 sceattas, two tremissis, and one Anglo-Saxon penny to the collection, bringing the total to 66 sceattas, two tremissis, and two pennies. My personal goal to reach 100 sceattas this year might have been a bit ambitious, however, if I didn't buy the tremissis, it might have been within reach. (Totally unnecessary chart depicting the additions over time). Nr 10, my most recent purchase, a penny of Cnut. I saw this penny in the inventory of a trader I regularly buy from early in 2019, but my focus then was Roman coins. I had bought, more or less by accident, a lot of three Anglo-Saxon pennies: two of Aethelred II, and one of Cnut, which turned out to be extremely rare and valuable. It was the first coin I auctioned, and the only coin I regret selling. So, when I met the dealer at a coin fair in September, I asked him whether he still had the coin. He showed hit to me, and I was sold (metaphorically). The coin has a wonderful golden toning, which is not adequately captured by this photo. ANGLO-SAXON, Cnut. Denomination: AR Penny (Short cross type), minted: England, Londen. Moneyer: leofwold; Obv: +CNVT . REX A. Diademed bust of Cnut to the left; scepter before. Rev: +L.EOFPOL.D ON LV: Voided cross. Weight: 1.17g; Ø:17.5mm. Catalogue: - . Provenance: Bought from J.T.M. van Bergen, who bought it as a lot of three Cnut pennies, which were (allegedly) part of a hoard found in 2014 near the Thames in London (though I couldn't find a PAS registration). ; acq.: 11-2022 Nr 9 is a super small, rough coin from the Tony Abramson Collection. I bought it privately, as I lacked funds when his collection was sold. It's a tremissis of the Nietap type, named after a small city where, in the 1900's, a hoard of tremissis was found (it's really nearby the small village where I grew up - only 4 km. My uncle, a farmer, owns land <300 m from the hoard.) I discussed the coin in more detail here (link); in short, it's probably a Frisian imitation of an unknown tremissis. The obverse should show a bust to the right (but the die is corroded); with a garbled legend around. EARLY MEDIEVAL, Anonymous. Denomination: AV Tremissis (Nietap type 1), minted: Frisia?; 620-630 AD Obv: Die rust / worn die common for type, but remainder of bust to right with legend is visible Rev: double cross in beaded circle, vestigial legends Weight: 1.19g; Ø:11mm. Catalogue: SCBI 69, 1090 this coin; cf: T&S 73 = Sutherland 90 = Crondall 95; Metcalf [2016], 22. Provenance: Ex. Tony Abramson, bought from spink auction 21070 lot 998. ; acq.: 05-2022 Nr 8 is a series J sceatta, type 85, which I haven't post before. It's my second type 85. It's attributed to York, minted around 710-730. I posted the other one, which is an absolutely stunning example, previously here (link). The buste on this coin below is similar to the Series B. I still need to read into the relation between Series B and J (@Nap probably knows this). EARLY MEDIEVAL, Anonymous. Denomination: AR Sceatta (Series J, type 85), minted: Anglo-Saxon; 710-725, York Obv: Diademed head right, double strand pearl diadem Rev: A bird on a cross, pellets in field in front of bird and below horizontal bar on the cross; annulets at the ends of the horizontal arms, beaded inner circle Weight: 0.88g; Ø:11.6mm. Catalogue: . Provenance: Bought from Eddy Pauwels, who found the coins near Etaples-sur-Mer (2022); acq.: 07-2022 Nr 7 is also a Series J, but type 37. It's a coin that's very, very difficult to find in good condition. Most are debased, many are plated. This was a bit of a gamble, and I probably overpaid. In hand, it's a nice coin, and way better than my other type 37. However, it's still corroded and somewhat debased. For now, I'll keep it in the collection, but will remain on the lookout for a better type 37. EARLY MEDIEVAL, Anonymous. Denomination: AR Sceatta (Series J, type 37), minted: Mint in Northumbria; 710-725 AD Obv: Two confronted diademed heads; between, long cross with trident end; double border Rev: Cross, at each end a bird right; double border. Weight: 0g; Ø:12mm. Catalogue: . Provenance: Bought on ebay from adl-numismatics, NR 154920101191, found in Norfolk, England, 2018; acq.: 03-2022 Darkly toned, irregular flan Nr 6, the next coin, shows (with some fantasy) how a 'porcupine' can be interpreted as a diademed bust. This is a primary phase (690-715) series E (continental) sceatta, of the variety G4. It shows a Latin legend on the obverse ("XAZA"), which is uncommon for sceatta's. There are four subtypes of Series E, var. G, with G3 (XAZA-like) and G4 (this type) being the scarcest. EARLY MEDIEVAL, Anonymous. Denomination: AR Sceatta (Series E, primary phase, variety G4 (XAZO)), minted: Frisia; 695-715/720 Obv: Quilled crescent curved right, enclosing "Moon face" right, XAZA before Rev: Square standard of line with dots, inside pellet within annulet, horizontal line above and below ending in dots on each side. Weight: 0g; Ø:mm. Catalogue: Die-match to die-chain 550-552 in JMP. Provenance: Ex. L'numis d'or, bought on Ebay (185436822497), from the seller who bought it on a flea market in Étaples (FR); acq.: 05-2022 Nr. 5 is probably my rarest sceatta, with only two others known (all with find locations in England). I discussed this in length here (link), and suggest that it's probably not a continental, but Saxon mintage (though with n=3, nothing can be said with certainty). Tony Abramson places it in Series E, var G (see above), 'G5'. I missed it when it was auctioned, selling for only 30 GBP or so. I then spotted it on Ebay for 90GBP, and quickly secured it. EARLY MEDIEVAL, Anonymous. Denomination: AR Sceatta (Series G5), minted: Anglo-Saxon? Frisia?; 650-750 AD Obv: porcupine-like figure with runic letters around Rev: runic letters around ornate uncial m Weight: 0.9g; Ø:11.2mm. Catalogue: . Provenance: Found near Rochester (Kent) in 1980s, bought on Ebay from Ancient17, ID 385156253365; acq.: 10-2022 Nr 4 is as ugly as they can get: a ragged, worn sceatta. For the specialist however, it's an intriguing coin, and I'll post a detailed thread on it later. In short, the primary phase Series E Plumed Bird types are grouped in four subtypes (J,K,L,M), of which subtype M is a mule with Series (not variety!) G, attributed to Quintovic (France). I've identified various other mules, some clearly immitative (such as this one), but others more official. In a die study (to be completed), I propose new sub-varieties. The present coin is a double die match to the only other specimen I know of (which is also in my collection, discussed here (link). That coin was without find location, the present coin however was found near Etaples (France), which fits in my theory that these coins were imitated in current France. EARLY MEDIEVAL, Anonymous. Denomination: AR Sceatta (Series E, (mule) plumed bird // reverse type ?), minted: Frisia magna; 690-750 AD Obv: Plumed bird with three lined tail Rev: Central annulet with V's around, cross-pommee above, all within square Weight: 0.32g; Ø:9.3mm. Catalogue: Not in JMP. Provenance: Found near Étaples, France. Bought from Le Numis d'or, Ebay (ID 185594493974); acq.: 10-2022 Nr. 3 appears to be somewhat rougher than it is in hand. It's a scarce Maastricht (named after the Merovingian city where this coin was presumably minted), or Zedelius coin type. It is very dissimilar to the other sceatta's, and just like the Interlace type (or Herstal type, also in my collection, discussed here [link]), I regard these as Merovingian. Still, it's a nice coin to add to the collection, and it wasn't terribly expensive. With this coin, I've included an exemplar of each continental sceatta (Series D, E,, F G, X, herstal, Maastricht). Funnily enough, I bought it from Elsen, waiting in a parking lot in Maastricht, which felt right. EARLY MEDIEVAL, Anonymous. Denomination: AR Sceatta (Zedelius, Interlace or Maastricht type), minted: Mint possibly in Maastricht; 695-740 AD Obv: Stylised, bust left with thickly braided hair in simple diadem, exaggerated features, cross pommée before, beading below and behind. Rev: Interlaced cross with three pellets in each quadrant Weight: 0.57g; Ø:11mm. Catalogue: Abramson 60-10. Provenance: Ex. Elsen, auction 150, lot 1005; acq.: 03-2022 Nr 2 is an iconic type. It's attributed to Ribe (Denmark), and though there is no consensus of what exactly is depicted on the obverse, many follow the suggestion that it is Wodan (which is of course way cooler than 'stylized abstract bust' or so). I like the earthen deposits - it adds character and some depth. It may perhaps explain why I was able to buy this coin for 'just' 600 EUR: without the deposits, I've seen similar coins sell for 1000 or more. Or maybe I was lucky. EARLY MEDIEVAL, Anonymous. Denomination: AR Sceatta (Series X), minted: Ribe, Danmark; 710-780 AD Obv: Facing 'Wodan' head with radiate hear, beard and mustache, cross on either side, all within line border Rev: Bipedal monster in flight, looking back, gaping jaws biting raised triple-forked tail, crest before with pellet and, ornaments below head. Weight: 0g; Ø:11.8mm. Catalogue: Abramson 103-10. Provenance: Schulman, auction 371, lot 1751; acq.: 04-2022 Sharply struck, some earthen deposits mainly on reverse. Dark grey toning Nr 1 is of course my first gold early medieval coin. I've discussed it in detail here (link). In short, this coin was offered by a befriended coin dealer, who bought it from a metal detectorist (I even have the video of the 'dig'!). It came with find location, and the approval of Arent Pol, the Dutch expert on these types (who stated it was the best he has seen). It's a Frisian Tremissis, Dronrijp type (named after the village Dronrijp where a hoard was found), though the Nietap hoard (see above) included a few of these as well. EARLY MEDIEVAL, Anonymous. Denomination: AV Tremissis (Dronrijp type), minted: Frisia; 620-630 AD Obv: bust to left, with NR before and small cross above. Dotted circles above. Rev: anchored cross with U and mirrored L, dot below. Ineligible legend around, including runic letter Catalogue: Boelens type B; Pol series II, class 2-3. Provenance: Ex. Hollandia Numismatics. Found near Castricum, nov-2021; acq.: 05-2022 That's it! Hope you've enjoyed this little list of coins from an obscure period of time. To conclude: if this were a coin, I would certainly include it in my top 10: a pseudo-coin fibula (or nummular brooch). This one is discussed here in more detail (link).

What’s the weight? It’s not on forgery network.

As each year, very, very nice. I tend to quickly scroll through your list, to 'absorb' it, and then read the text (which is, as always, well written and informative). Wonderful coins! I especially love the early Anglo Saxon types. I was wondering: do you have a website with all your coins listed?