Trachy Tuesday

[quant.geek]

16 minutes ago, TheTrachyEnjoyer said:

😲 That is an absolute steal! The price is just unbelievable as it is worth several times over!

[seth77]

Last trachy for 2022: a 'Latin' Type O S2035 large module. Probably an upgrade, certainly one of the more beautiful specimens.

 

AE25mm 3.56g, mid period ca. 1220s-1230s

 

 

[Zimm]

@seth77 That trachy truly has wonderful eye appeal, even more so considering it's a Latin type. I was considering bidding on that very same coin when I first saw it on eBay, but ultimately decided against it in order to save money for some bigger purchases, as I was, and still am, on quite a low budget, which will probably last until the end of the year.

I did have a few nice trachies arrive in the last few days though; some nicer than the others and some scarcer than the others.

Michael VIII - Sear 2262 (Magnesia?)

It doesn't look like a special coin at first glance, but in fact this is quite a scarce one with only a handful of examples I was able to find online. It wasn't nice enough to be featured on my top 10 list so I thought I'd share it here instead.

Michael VIII - 2279 (Constaintople?/Magnesia?)

Despite the two deep sratches on the obverse, the coin has excellent eye appeal in hand. In addition, this is another quite scarce type that I was happy to acquire earlier this month.

Andronicus II & Andronicus II - Sear 2464 (Constantinople)

Out of all my recent wins, this one is probably in the worst condition overall. However it is of a type I thought I wouldn't be able to acquire for years to come (partially due to its rarity, but mostly due to its price), so having finally been able to find one, all I can is that I am very happy with it (despite the abysmal condition).

Edited December 20, 2022 by Zimm

[seth77]

Yes, S2464 is an extraordinary type, but I don't think it's a Constantinopolitan type.

[Zimm]

6 minutes ago, seth77 said:

Yes, S2464 is an extraordinary type, but I don't think it's a Constantinopolitan type.

Yes, the style would seem out of the ordinary for Constantinople (but on the other hand it is in quite fine style?). I haven‘t looked too deep into the type myself, so I‘m not yet sure what the current prevailing theory for its origin is, but it definitely is a fascinating type.

 

Also that‘s a wonderful example of the type!

Edited December 20, 2022 by Zimm

[seth77]

It's also a very inconsistent type -- the spec I posted is AE24mm 3.25g, that would work for an early 'Latin' large module but how would such a deviant issue work for the output of the metropolitan mint in the 1320s? The more I look at it the more it seems like a western Asian type for Andronikos II and Michael IX, maybe 1295 (it's even too large and heavy for that phase at both Constantinople and Thessalonika). Although I have to admit I'd really like if it were a type minted for Andronikos III in Thracia ca. 1321.

Edited December 20, 2022 by seth77

[Zimm]

20 minutes ago, seth77 said:

It's also a very inconsistent type -- the spec I posted is AE24mm 3.25g, that would work for an early 'Latin' large module but how would such a deviant issue work for the output of the metropolitan mint in the 1320s? The more I look at it the more it seems like a western Asian type for Andronikos II and Michael IX, maybe 1295 (it's even too large and heavy for that phase at both Constantinople and Thessalonika). Although I have to admit I'd really like if it were a type minted for Andronikos III in Thracia ca. 1321.

Such inconsistency would admittedly be weird for a proper mint like that. My example is really low in weight at roughly 1.80g, though that may be due to the wear, and in 24mm in diameter, so about the same as your example.  
 

Would you happen to know where any of the examples have been found? That could theoretically shine a bit light on where they were minted.

[seth77]

I have no idea, but I suspect western Asia, as @Glebe reminds us of the specs from Pergamum and Anaia. If you haven't already, you should check out his article here. Considering that local coinage in Asia Minor is understudied and that Constantinople as a mint seems to not reach places like Pergamum, Smyrna, etc past ca. 1300 (perhaps 1304), I think it's really hard to argue for a Thracian mint for S2464 post 1300. 1295 seems like a good date for 'provincial' coinage, although unlikely for Thracia. Magnesia and Philadelphia both did good coins in the 13th century.

[Zimm]

On 12/21/2022 at 2:28 AM, seth77 said:

I have no idea, but I suspect western Asia, as @Glebe reminds us of the specs from Pergamum and Anaia. If you haven't already, you should check out his article here. Considering that local coinage in Asia Minor is understudied and that Constantinople as a mint seems to not reach places like Pergamum, Smyrna, etc past ca. 1300 (perhaps 1304), I think it's really hard to argue for a Thracian mint for S2464 post 1300. 1295 seems like a good date for 'provincial' coinage, although unlikely for Thracia. Magnesia and Philadelphia both did good coins in the 13th century.

Thank you for the link. I hadn’t realised that he had an article dedicated solely to this type; I had somehow skipped completely over it.

Edited May 5, 2023 by Zimm

[quant.geek]

A few of my coins finally came through, but I am still waiting for a few others.  The holiday shipping schedules are always hectic. What is not in the standard description is the angel below the scepter.  It reminds me of the coronation grosso of Stefan Uros IV Dusan of Serbia (not my coin)...

Empire of Nicaea: John III Ducas-Vatatzes (1222-1254) Æ Trachy, Magnesia (Sear 2105; DOC IV.51)

Obv: Half-length bust of St. Demetrius, nimbate, facing, holding sword in right hand and shield decorated with a star in left
Rev: John standing facing, holding labarum-tipped scepter in right hand and globus cruciger in left; to upper right, Manus Dei
Dim: 0.66g

 

Edited December 23, 2022 by quant.geek

[Simon]

I know I am a day early but it feels like Tuesday, this coin has its faults but has its beauty as well. I believe it to be Thedore I Comnenus-Lascaris I Christ on a throne, my reason for showing this large module trachy is the interesting orange rust patina. 

[JeandAcre]

@Simon, what has to leap out at me first is the reverse field legend, 'KOMN[E]NO.'  Yow.  But the patina really does inhabit its own sphere.  In some contexts, and to resort to metaphor, 'ragged beauty' is the best kind.

Edited January 3, 2023 by JeandAcre

[Zimm]

Here is quite an interesting coin I picked up today.

Admittedly it does not look like much, but there is a reason why I chose to share such a cruddy coin here.

Theodore(?) (Likely imitative) - Trachy - Uncertain mint - LBC 279-280 (as John III), Sear: -, DOC: -

Obverse: Facing bust of Christ (Pantokrator), bearded, nimbate, holding Book of Gospels IC – XC

Reverse: Theodore I on the left, Saint Constantine(?) on the right, holding globus cruciger between them. Emperor wearing stemma, divetesion and chlamys, holding cruciform sceptre(?) in right hand. Saint wearing stemma, divetesion and loros, holding cruciform sceptre in left hand.

Although at first glance this might seem like a standard imitative trachy of Alexius III, this coin is in reality something truly special. The features differentiating this type from the usual examples of 2010-2012 (and imitations thereof) are 1. the forked beard the emperor on the left has, 2. the bearded bust of Christ, and 3. the Nicaean regalia of the emperor on the left. Three examples of this type were found in the Peter and Paul hoard (at least two of which now reside in the Ashmolean museum), with no records of further examples having been found since. The fact that this is seemingly the only example in private hands alone would make the coin a great find in its own right.

However, what drove me into sharing this coin here is that it's seemingly related to an unpublished likely trachy of Theodore I Laskaris, an example of which I managed acquire last year. As I already discussed in my top 10 trachea of the year post, this rather irregular type (often struck on small flans or clipped down) seems to imitate the aforementioned, seemingly official, type. In contrast to the finely engraved dies and legible legends present on the "official" issues (picture below), these "imitative" ones were rather crudely engraved with blundered and shortened legends. I had been keeping an eye on newly listed trachea of Alexius III for quite a while now in hopes of finding an example of this type of misattributed, and lo and behold, today it finally happened.

(Picture comparing the two types side by side):

(1st coin: 30mm, 2.5g,

2nd coin: 24mm, 1,2g)

(The further two irregular examples can be found here:
https://hcr.ashmus.ox.ac.uk/coin/hcr53455

https://hcr.ashmus.ox.ac.uk/coin/hcr53456)

Edited January 16, 2023 by Zimm

[Jims,Coins]

Minted at Constantinople during the Latin rulers of Constantinople between 1204 - 1261. Obv. The Virgin enthroned. Rev. Emperor standing, holding labarum. BCVS #2044.

[Simon]

One of my favorites from Latin rule SBCV-2036 The large module version.  Is one of my best coins from 2021.  Unusually nice. 

[Glebe]

10 hours ago, Zimm said:

Here is quite an interesting coin I picked up today.

Admittedly it does not look like much, but there is a reason why I chose to share such a cruddy coin here.

Theodore(?) (Likely imitative) - Trachy - Uncertain mint - LBC 279-280 (as John III), Sear: -, DOC: -

Obverse: Facing bust of Christ (Pantokrator), bearded, nimbate, holding Book of Gospels IC – XC

Reverse: Theodore I on the left, Saint Constantine(?) on the right, holding globus cruciger between them. Emperor wearing stemma, divetesion and chlamys, holding cruciform sceptre(?) in right hand. Saint wearing stemma, divetesion and loros, holding cruciform sceptre in left hand.

Although at first glance this might seem like a standard imitative trachy of Alexius III, this coin is in reality something truly special. The features differentiating this type from the usual examples of 2010-2012 (and imitations thereof) are 1. the forked beard the emperor on the left has, 2. the bearded bust of Christ, and 3. the Nicaean regalia of the emperor on the left. Three examples of this type were found in the Peter and Paul hoard (at least two of which now reside in the Ashmolean museum), with no records of further examples having been found since. The fact that this is seemingly the only example in private hands alone would make the coin a great find in its own right.

However, what drove me into sharing this coin here is that it's seemingly related to an unpublished likely trachy of Theodore I Laskaris, an example of which I managed acquire last year. As I already discussed in my top 10 trachea of the year post, this rather irregular type (often struck on small flans or clipped down) seems to imitate the aforementioned, seemingly official, type. In contrast to the finely engraved dies and legible legends present on the "official" issues (picture below), these "imitative" ones were rather crudely engraved with blundered and shortened legends. I had been keeping an eye on newly listed trachea of Alexius III for quite a while now in hopes of finding an example of this type of misattributed, and lo and behold, today it finally happened.

(Picture comparing the two types side by side):

(1st coin: 30mm, 2.5g,

2nd coin: 24mm, 1,2g)

(The further two irregular examples can be found here:
https://hcr.ashmus.ox.ac.uk/coin/hcr53455

https://hcr.ashmus.ox.ac.uk/coin/hcr53456)

I wonder whether this new coin is the third example from the Peter & Paul hoard - although Christ's halo looks different.

(I can't find my copy of that hoard and Jstor seems to be offline for the present).

Ross G.

Ed:  Found the hoard, and no, it's not the third example, which is shown as Pl. 11, 99 in Metcalf's report of the hoard in Num. Chron. 1973.

Edited January 17, 2023 by Glebe

[Zimm]

Here's an interesting Nicaean(?) coin I picked up recently.

Obverse:
Half-length bust of Christ, beardless, nimbate, IC - XC

Reverse: 
Full-length figure of emperor on the left, bearded, wearing stemma, divetesion, collar piece, and jewelled loros, holding in right hand sceptre, holding onto globus with left hand. Saint Theodore(?) on the left, bearded, nimbate, wearing military tunic and breastplate, holding sceptre in left hand, holding onto globus cruciger with right hand, (uncertain legends)

 

Although it may at first look like a standard clipped Nicaean issue, it's in fact quite a rare type with an uncertain attribution. As far as I could find, the only other example of the coin resides in the Ashmolean Museum at Oxford and was found in the Peter and Paul hoard. I have provided a picture of the coin below, as well as pictures from LBC and the hoard report of Peter and Paul hoard. 

The Ashmolean coin:

The hoard report:

 

The LBC entry:

The Peter and Paul description, as well as the attribution itself, is flawed. The example found in the hoard had its obverse very weakly struck (and perhaps overstruck on a previous issue?), which is why it's almost completely obscured. For some reason, it was interpreted as Mary seated on a high-backed throne, but the example I have acquired proves otherwise (It is actually a half-length bust of a beardless Christ). The reverse features a very unusual design with the emperor and a military saint(!) holding onto a globus cruciger together, which is a design usually connected with St. Constantine rather than a military saint.

 

What I find fascinating about the coin are the style and the saint. The style seems to resemble the coins of Theodore (cf. Sear 2067, which has both the regalia type featured on my coin, as well as the one seen on the Ashmolean example) and the earliest issues of John III. Even more fascinatingly the saint on the right seems to be bearded, making St. Theodore the likeliest candidate. St. Theodore does appear on both coins of Theodore I and John III (cf. Sear 2069, which was attributed to Theodore Laskaris until the discovery of an example with a legend fragment belonging to John), so that isn't enough to confidently attribute the coin to either of the emperors. That is why I find the Peter and Paul hoard attribution of John III controversial, as thanks to the presence of St. Theodore, Theodore Laskaris can't be excluded from consideration. Sadly this is likely another case where the only way to confidently attribute the coin will be to wait for an example with a more complete legend to show up. I thought I'd still share it here though as I found the type fascinating.

Edited May 5, 2023 by Zimm

[Simon]

26.27mm and 2.2gm I think it is Lianta 515  Michael VIII 1261-1282. 

Just a coin that caught my attention, If I I misattributed, please correct me.

Here is the reverse darkened for perhaps more detail. 

 

[Zimm]

14 hours ago, Simon said:

26.27mm and 2.2gm I think it is Lianta 515  Michael VIII 1261-1282. 

Just a coin that caught my attention, If I I misattributed, please correct me.

Here is the reverse darkened for perhaps more detail. 

 

I think it may be Sear 2110 (John III Vatatzes) instead of Sear 2261. On the obverse of 2110 you have a beardless Christ, similar to the one present on your example, and St. Theodore on the reverse holding a trilobate sceptre, as can also be seen on your coin, instead of the Archangel Michael (holding nothing in his left hand).

Edited May 12, 2023 by Zimm

[Simon]

@Zimm You might be very correct. It looks like it. Thank You.

[Simon]

I am stuck on this one. The little of the Legend I see is IW leading me to John, the style is 13th century,. Two rulers and Christ on OBV, note the overstrike marks on the bottom left of OBV,  23mm and 1.5gm  Anybody seeing what I am not? Assistance is appreciated. 

[Zimm]

6 hours ago, Simon said:

I am stuck on this one. The little of the Legend I see is IW leading me to John, the style is 13th century,. Two rulers and Christ on OBV, note the overstrike marks on the bottom left of OBV,  23mm and 1.5gm  Anybody seeing what I am not? Assistance is appreciated. 

That one sems to be the Latin Sear 2049 from Thessalonica, with Christ on the obverse and St. Helena & St. Constantine on the reverse with a large patriarchal cross.

[seth77]

It seems that 'Latin Thessalonica' for these types has fallen out of favor as per the latest research by the likes of Lianta and Baker. Lianta (LATIN IMITATIVE BILLON TRACHEA ISSUED IN THE MINT OF THESSALONICA (1204 – 1224)? A tribute to Prof. Ivan Jordanov’s 70th anniversary, Shumen 2019 pp. 374-6) notes the distribution patterns of these 'Latin Thessalonica' coinages coincide more with the Venetian possessions in the Aegean and less with a localized area centered around the city of Thessalonica. To strengthen this, she adds the two Thessalonica/2007 hoards (Eleni Lianta - Two Byzantine Coin Hoards from 13th-Century Thessalonica) where the presence of the 'Latin Thessalonica' trachea is minuscule for the period discussed 1204-1224 (1.26% and 1.39%). Working on this recent data, Baker (Coinage and Money... pp. 1227-9) proposes also a more centralized theory -- even the 'Latin Thessalonica' trachea were in fact products of a 'public mint' at Constantinople, one that was open to public (private) interests minting their own bullion into coins of the specific needed module. This is likely what Venice was doing for its trade in the Balkan and the Aegean, likely including Constantinople proper. So although DOC dates this type to around the reign of Boniface de Montferrat (before 1207), the sequencing of R. Glanfield, points to a later dating, after ca. 1213, more in tune with what Lianta and Baker suggest, so the coinage appears to be a bit later and not Thessalonican.

Here's a sister issue, Hendy Thessalonica B S.2056

 

 

Edited May 14, 2023 by seth77

[Jims,Coins]

Minted at Constantinople during the reign of Andronicus I between September 1183 - 12 September 1185. Obv. The Virgin stg. facing on dais, nimbate and wearing pallium and maphorium; She holds before her nimbate hd. of the infant Christ facing; to l., MP; to r., 0v. Rev.  ANaPONIKOC aECnOTHC (or similar). Christ, bearded and with nimbus cr. (on r.) and Andronicus, with forked beard (on l.), both stg. facing; Christ wears pallium and colobium, holds book of gospels in l. hand, and with his r. crowns the Emperor, who wears divitision, loros, and holds labarum and gl. cr.; between their heads, IC; to r., XC. BCVS #1985

 

Edited May 14, 2023 by Jims,Coins

[Glebe]

LATIN IMITATIVE BILLON TRACHEA
ISSUED IN THE MINT OF THESSALONICA (1204 – 1224)?

17 hours ago, seth77 said:

It seems that 'Latin Thessalonica' for these types has fallen out of favor as per the latest research by the likes of Lianta and Baker. Lianta (LATIN IMITATIVE BILLON TRACHEA ISSUED IN THE MINT OF THESSALONICA (1204 – 1224)? A tribute to Prof. Ivan Jordanov’s 70th anniversary, Shumen 2019 pp. 374-6) notes the distribution patterns of these 'Latin Thessalonica' coinages coincide more with the Venetian possessions in the Aegean and less with a localized area centered around the city of Thessalonica. To strengthen this, she adds the two Thessalonica/2007 hoards (Eleni Lianta - Two Byzantine Coin Hoards from 13th-Century Thessalonica) where the presence of the 'Latin Thessalonica' trachea is minuscule for the period discussed 1204-1224 (1.26% and 1.39%). Working on this recent data, Baker (Coinage and Money... pp. 1227-9) proposes also a more centralized theory -- even the 'Latin Thessalonica' trachea were in fact products of a 'public mint' at Constantinople, one that was open to public (private) interests minting their own bullion into coins of the specific needed module. This is likely what Venice was doing for its trade in the Balkan and the Aegean, likely including Constantinople proper. So although DOC dates this type to around the reign of Boniface de Montferrat (before 1207), the sequencing of R. Glanfield, points to a later dating, after ca. 1213, more in tune with what Lianta and Baker suggest, so the coinage appears to be a bit later and not Thessalonican.

Here's a sister issue, Hendy Thessalonica B S.2056

 

 

Note that the title of Lianta's article:

"LATIN IMITATIVE BILLON TRACHEA ISSUED IN THE MINT OF THESSALONICA (1204 – 1224)?"

needs to be read carefully - she is of course challenging the idea of Thessalonican issues, as the question mark indicates.

Ross G..

 

Edited May 15, 2023 by Glebe