Benefactor kirispupis Posted February 2 · Benefactor Benefactor Share Posted February 2 Recently, I was fortunate enough to acquire this coin. Lycia, Toriaion Circa 3-2nd century BCE AE 14 mm, 3.79 g, 9 h Turreted head of Tyche to right. Rev. TOPIAITΩN around an uncertain symbol Unpublished. Unique. The coinage of Toriaion is intriguing. In a paper by Meadows, he argues convincingly that a number of Side tetradrachms such as this one were counterstamped in Toriaion. However, of the coins believed to have been minted by Toriaion, there exists only this type above, and of that type my coin is currently the only known example. In this case, I believe the attribution is pretty obvious since the entire city name was used. The main thing I'm wondering, though, is what exactly is the thing on the middle of the reverse? At first, my thought was the hooves of a horse. However, there's a weird "thingy" coming out of the front "hoof" like a horn. Could it be some abstract camel? A jellyfish? An ancient fleur-de-lis? A very dejected frog? A headless monkey? What do you think? Serious and non-serious answers all are good. 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finn235 Posted February 2 · Member Share Posted February 2 Banana peel, obviously. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Anthos Posted February 2 · Member Share Posted February 2 Upside down it kinda looks like some sort of plant. Or calamari! 🙂 ~ Peter 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
expat Posted February 2 · Supporter Share Posted February 2 Nice looking coin. The image is showing an octopus after a shark attack. LOL 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursus Posted February 2 · Supporter Share Posted February 2 There might be some imagination involved, but I see a three-headed hydra, at least if you turn the reverse 180° around. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deinomenid Posted February 2 · Supporter Share Posted February 2 Less imaginative answer here sorry! Looks like a piece of cud from a die-flaw. The weird "thingy" is sometimes a feature of that. Random example of thingied cud - 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AncientOne Posted February 3 · Member Share Posted February 3 My first impression was a lion skin. The Satraps of Lycia coinage has a lion mask. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryro Posted February 3 · Supporter Share Posted February 3 First thought was it's an upside down flower 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benefactor kirispupis Posted February 3 · Benefactor Author Benefactor Share Posted February 3 FWIW, here's the story I wrote for it: Roughly 2,200 years ago, in a land called Lycia, there lived a man named Alex. Now, Alex was an enterprising young man, and had what he suspected was an amazing business idea to sell overpriced pottery out of a barn and trademark the name. But he wasn't sure it would work. One day, while on a walk to think about it, he came across a frog. "Hello!" said the frog. Alex had never met a talking frog before. "Wow! I didn't know frogs could talk!" "Well," said the frog, "I saw no reason not to. So here I am talking." That's when Alex thought of a clever idea. He told the frog of his plans and asked whether it was a sound business proposal. "I don't see why not," said the frog, so Alex put his plan into motion and, sure enough, he made a lot of money. Soon, he was the most eligible bachelor in town and he had his sights on someone he'd loved since childhood. He returned to the frog and asked whether he should make a proposal. "I see no reason not to," said the frog, so Alex married her and they were very successful. He became so popular and wealthy that he came to rule Toriaion. To thank the frog for his sound advice, he minted many bronze coins of Toriaion with the frog on the reverse. However, his wealth was noticed by the Romans, who insisted Toriaion pay them an exorbitant amount. The town had many strong men, and Alex wondered whether they should revolt. He decided to ask the frog. "I don't see why not," said the frog, so they revolted. The Romans then killed Alex, sold his wife and children into slavery, slaughtered everyone else, leveled the town, and melted all but one of the coins. That coin had been placed on a rock for the frog, but of course the frog didn't care about that, overpriced pottery, or the Romans, because he was just a frog. Yet it's the only one left in existence, left as a reminder to not always take advice from a frog. 5 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewStyleKing Posted February 4 · Member Share Posted February 4 I had a long deep think about it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shanxi Posted February 4 · Supporter Share Posted February 4 (edited) Another similar example. Here the object looks like a branch (or the half of a lightning bolt) ????? https://www.biddr.com/auctions/nbsauctions/browse?a=3985&l=4686819 Probably two slightly different depictions of the same object Edited February 4 by shanxi 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sulla80 Posted February 4 · Supporter Share Posted February 4 A fantastic coin from Toriaion, Lycia, @kirispupis. Amazing to have the only coin from Toriaion to have survived 2000 years! I will add a picture of the countermark attributed to Toriaion: Leu 2022, and another from Künker 2021 Frogs apparently not the most reliable advisors reminding me of the story of Batrachomyomachia Here are a few guesses for your puzzling reverse - none very satisfying for what I see on your coin. I tend to lean toward some sort of plant or octopus.... 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sulla80 Posted February 4 · Supporter Share Posted February 4 3 hours ago, shanxi said: Another similar example. Here the object looks like a branch (or the half of a lightning bolt) ????? https://www.biddr.com/auctions/nbsauctions/browse?a=3985&l=4686819 Probably two slightly different depictions of the same object That's an amazing find....looks like another coin of TOPIAITΩN..and certainly looks very branch-like. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benefactor kirispupis Posted February 4 · Benefactor Author Benefactor Share Posted February 4 7 hours ago, shanxi said: Another similar example. Here the object looks like a branch (or the half of a lightning bolt) ????? https://www.biddr.com/auctions/nbsauctions/browse?a=3985&l=4686819 Probably two slightly different depictions of the same object Very interesting! So clearly this isn't the only bronze from Toriaion, though I don't feel so bad about the price of my copy anymore. 🙂 That one definitely appears to be a thunderbolt, though I find it difficult to say mine is the same shape. 5 hours ago, Sulla80 said: A fantastic coin from Toriaion, Lycia, @kirispupis. Amazing to have the only coin from Toriaion to have survived 2000 years! I will add a picture of the countermark attributed to Toriaion: Leu 2022, and another from Künker 2021 Frogs apparently not the most reliable advisors reminding me of the story of Batrachomyomachia Here are a few guesses for your puzzling reverse - none very satisfying for what I see on your coin. I tend to lean toward some sort of plant or octopus.... Note that I don't really think it's a frog. I just felt that made a nice story. Toriaion was an inland city, so I'm doubtful about a prow, squid, or dolphin. Ideally, it would help to know more about the history of Toriaion - their main temple(s) and trade - but we don't. The ruins have been identified, though. This paper is the best I've found so far. The paper does give an end date of 166 BCE to it, and I suspect there's a high likelyhood it was minted between when it was given polis status in 188 BCE and when the city was presumed destroyed in 168-166 bce. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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