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Close to Cleopatra


Furryfrog02

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Well at least as close to Cleopatra as I will ever likely get.


This guy arrived in the mail today and I think it is super cool. I find countermarks to be really interesting and this one in particular since more recent scholarship attributes the bust to none other than Cleopatra VII, Queen of the Nile herself.

AntiochSyriaTetrachalkon48-47BCZeuswithCleopatraVIIcountermark.png.40a16b117586b7ddfcf68d1a3a6c4fc7.png

Antioch, Syria
AE Tetrachalkon
48/47 BC
Obverse: Laureate head of Zeus right; countermark of female head (Cleopatra VII) right in incuse oval
Reverse: ΑΝΤΙΟΧΕΩΝ ΤΗΣ ΜΗΤΡΟΠΟΛΕΩΣ, Zeus enthroned left, right leg drawn back, Nike standing right in outstretched right hand, grounded scepter in left; cornucopia in inner left field, [Δ?] (date) in exergue, all within laurel wreath

This is what I can find regarding the countermark. Admittedly, I don't have the source itself, just multiple references to it online.

From McAlee, "The Coins of Roman Antioch" (p. 74, note 25): "The coins of this year (Pompeian Era 19 = 48/7 BC) and year 3 of the Caesarean era are frequently seen with a countermark on the obverse which was previously described as "head of Apollo r." in an oval...it now seems likely that the countermark portrays Cleopatra, and was used to mark coins circulating in the Syro-Phoenician territories which were given to her by Mark Antony." 

 

Feel free to post your Cleopatras (countermarks or otherwise) Mark Antonys or whatever else you may deem relevant 🙂
Thanks for looking!

 

 

 

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17 minutes ago, Furryfrog02 said:

countermark of female head (Cleopatra VII) right in incuse oval

That's cool and fascinating! Wow... ! Really great coin - and a really great sharp portrait on the countermark. Congratulations! I don't have a coin with a direct reference to the famous Cleopatra. I have a Cleopatra Selene Coin, the daughter of Cleopatra and Marcus Antonius. I would still like to have a coin like the one you have with a direct reference to the famous Cleopatra.

You can hardly afford the silver pieces on offer with Marcus Antonius and Cleopatra 🙂

 

 

JUBASNG570.jpg.de19eb4d493ec7a591163f8a2f0ddd60.jpg

 
King Juba II with Kleopatra Selene (daughter of queen Cleopatra VII and the Roman triumvir Marcus Antonius); 
Reign: Juba II, Kingdom of Mauretania; Mint: Iulia Caesarea; Date: 11/23 AD; Nominal: Denarius; Material: Silver; Diameter: 17mm; Weight: 2.83g; Rare: R2; Reference: MAA 99; Reference: Mazard 311; Reference: SNG Copenhagen 570; Pedigree: Ex Noble Numismatics Pty Ltd., Auction 128, 23 November 2021, lot 2668; Pedigree: Ex Dr L. J. Sherwin Collection, purchased 1 October 1987 from J. Anderson (Martin Daniel), Sydney; Obverse: Diademed head of Juba II right; Inscription: REX IVBA; Translation: King Juba; Reverse: Head-dress of Isis on left and sistrum on right with; inscription divided by dotted line; Inscription: BACIΛICCA KΛЄOΠATPA; Translation: Basilissa Kleopatra; Translation: Queen Cleopatra.

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That's a very intriguing countermark!  I don't recall seeing one of this type before.

My best Ceopatara VII coin is a somewhat poorly struck and worn affair, but if it were in higher grade, I'd probably need to take out a home equity loan purchase it!  (Slight exaggeration).

Egypt, Cleopatra VII, AE 80 drachmae, circa 50-40 BC.

Sear 1871

17.4 grams

She certainly had that Ptolematic nose!

D-CameraCleopatraVIIAE80drachmaebestexample17.4gramssear18718-8-21.jpg.5de176216d345f96b376f5566b382479.jpg

 

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Yours is absolutely beautiful @Prieure de Sion!
I have to say, I really think I got a steal with my coin - $18.85 to include the shipping which was kind of funny since the seller lives about 2 miles from me. He put it in the mail yesterday and it arrived today 🙂

@robinjojoI love your actual bust of Cleopatra. You are right, that nose is...well...something 🙂

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16 minutes ago, Furryfrog02 said:

Yours is absolutely beautiful @Prieure de Sion!
I have to say, I really think I got a steal with my coin - $18.85 to include the shipping which was kind of funny since the seller lives about 2 miles from me. He put it in the mail yesterday and it arrived today 🙂

Thanks - but my coin is only the daughter - and at all - no portrait. I would love to have a real Cleopatra... 

Wow... you paid a good price. Great! As I said - a great coin and extremely interesting. I always find such countermarks very interesting. And then also in such great quality! I would have bought your coin immediately.

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Don't remember the auction house but I scored this one for just a few dollars in a mixed lot - don't think I'll ever top that. It's hideous but the price was right!CleopatraVIIAE80Drachmae.jpg.bcf761250305b57faff4230dc59e7e27.jpg

This tetradrachm (which I sold to finance some other purchase) I also had attributed to Cleopatra, RY 1. Doesn't look much like her though!PtolemyXIIandCleopatraVIIltwttetRY3050BCPaphos861g.jpg.4716187fe4850c132d8339eacccb6ee1.jpg

 

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Great score @Furryfrog02!

I don't have anything Cleopatra-related (well, I guess Julius Caesar might be said to be related.) I wouldn't mind having one of her portrait coins someday, but it's one of those coins that are expensive enough even in poor condition that I'll probably never own one. Like the Shekel of Tyre.

 

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6 hours ago, CPK said:

Great score @Furryfrog02!

I don't have anything Cleopatra-related (well, I guess Julius Caesar might be said to be related.) I wouldn't mind having one of her portrait coins someday, but it's one of those coins that are expensive enough even in poor condition that I'll probably never own one. Like the Shekel of Tyre.

 

I know what you mean. Pretty sure if I picked up either of the coins you mentioned, Mrs. Frog would divorce me. I'd be out on the street but at least I'd have my pretty coins 😛

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Here is my very humble Cleopatra VII. She's not exactly Gal Godot.

CleopatraVII40drachma.jpg.186aa156b3ceb04663a28ca0582840af.jpg
Cleopatra VII, Queen of Egypt, 51-30 BCE.
Greek Æ 40 drachmai, 21.0 mm, 7.32 gm.
Alexandria, 51-30 BCE.
Obv: Diademed head of Cleopatra, hair in bun at back of head, facing right.
Rev: [ΚΛΕΟΠΑΤΡΑΣ ΒΑΣΙΛΙΣΣΗΣ], eagle standing left on thunderbolt, double cornucopiae in field to left, M (for 40) to right.
Refs: Sear Greek 7956; Svoronos 1872; BMC 6; Vagi 212; Forrer 110.

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