Experience with Auction HVMC - Hôtel des Ventes de Monte Carlo?

[Prieure de Sion]

Hello...

Did any of you participate in the Auction of the Hôtel des Ventes de Monte Carlo (HVMC) on 16 July 2023?

At biddr:
https://www.biddr.com/auctions/hvmc/browse?a=3701 

Paid and got the goods or didn't get them?

 

The auction was on 16 July - just over 3 weeks ago - I paid by Wise Sofort Überweisung - the auction house also confirmed the receipt of the money directly to me.

After that, I heard nothing more from the auction house. But good - it doesn't have to be.

Today, however, I thought I would ask when I could expect the goods to be shipped. I received an automatic reply to my email enquiry: "Monaco Auction House is closed from August 5th to August 27th included. We will check your email when we return."

What is happening with the auction items?

It is generally not a problem when an auction house takes a holiday. But to do an auction in the middle of July and then "secretly" go on holiday for 3 weeks without informing the winners. If you then start shipping at the end of August / beginning of September - the shipping starts 7 weeks after the auction.

Leu also had an auction and then a holiday - but they informed the winners that it may be that the winning pieces will only be shipped after the holiday. They knew about it.

You can't have an auction, then not get in touch for 3 weeks and then suddenly close down for 3 weeks because of holidays. 

I would therefore be interested to know if any of you have already received the goods?

[Kaleun96]

3 hours ago, Prieure de Sion said:

You can't have an auction, then not get in touch for 3 weeks and then suddenly close down for 3 weeks because of holidays. 

Sounds exactly like something Elsen would do. I remember they held an auction early-mid December once and didn't ship until end of January for the same reason.

[Prieure de Sion]

1 minute ago, Kaleun96 said:

Sounds exactly like something Elsen would do. I remember they held an auction early-mid December once and didn't ship until end of January for the same reason.

Oh I don't mind if they go on holiday after an auction (even if it's notz ideal - but ok). Leu had also done this. But Leu has told the bidders that they are going on holiday after the auction and then it's ok - you can adjust to that. And it is certainly no problem to briefly inform the customers in a mailing list.

But to do an auction in mid-July - you don't hear anything for 3 weeks - then you write to the auction house and find out that everyone is now on holiday for another 3 weeks and no one can be reached.

Above all - even if Leu was on holiday - there was an emergency email address - where you could contact if you had any questions. But here at this auction house you only get the message "we are all on holiday and won't read our email either!".

I don't want to know what happens if part of the goods have already been shipped. What if there are problems with the shipment that only the sender can solve - but they don't read their mails for 3 weeks now?

 

But I have since read the Google reviews of the auction house - and am "somewhat reassured".  The house has been around for a while - it was just their first auction on biddr. But the reviews speak volumes - many criticise the catastrophic communication - and delivery times even months later. I'll be prepared to get my coins sometime in autumn/winter 2023. But to charge 110 euros for the shipping service! Respect!

[John Conduitt]

It seems a thing the French and Italians do often in August. No-one would expect they might get their lots delivered in August. They probably write on their forums about the strange Saxons wanting their postperson to work in the summer.

In the UK we'd hardly ever have the whole company shut down. Perhaps a couple of days over Christmas and Easter, and must always arrange cover. Of course, we have holiday, but not all at the same time. It's like another world.

Edited August 7, 2023 by John Conduitt

[Ancient Coin Hunter]

In my business we also generally slowed down in August, not considering any new deals. I did have to attend board meetings by phone on occasion, which I could do from Europe on holiday or Yellowstone or a place like that. Americans in general are supposed to be working all the time which is kind of a cultural sickness.

[Prieure de Sion]

Once again - please don't misunderstand - everyone deserves their holiday too! 

But if you hold an auction and then disappear 3 weeks later for 3 weeks on holiday - you should perhaps notify the winners of the auction in advance "dear winners - we are on holiday until the end of August, shipping will take place afterwards" and all is well.

But 3 weeks after the auction don't report. Then you write an email as a customer to politely ask about the shipment - and then you only find out because of the email answering machine that nobody is there - that's not good. That is annoying. Especially when you get the message "by the way, we're on holiday for 3 weeks and you won't be able to reach anyone". 

And they charged me 110 euros for the shipping service - that's ok too, I paid it - but at 110 euros I already expect the goods to be shipped within the 3 weeks before the holiday. For 110 euros a delivery then after 6-8 weeks from a European neighbouring country - not good.

In short, I think it's a very bad service.

I would just be interested to know if there are other winners here and if they have already received their goods.

[AETHER]

Absolutely you should have been notified, even prior to winning. If you run an auction before a holiday you decide to take, it is your responsibility to notify anyone bidding that they will have a significant delay in shipment if they win. The only logical reason for them not making anyone aware is because it would affect some users not bidding to avoid the wait time.  I also would not buy or accept the reasoning that they assumed everyone was aware of the holiday, especially if the auction was open to international bidding. 

Good luck, I am sure you will get your coin, its just a shame there was non existent fine print.   

[Limes]

6 hours ago, Prieure de Sion said:

But to charge 110 euros for the shipping service!

Eehhhh... What? What kind of shipping is this? Or did you buy a Roman statue or something? 

[Nerosmyfavorite68]

A bunch of European vcoins/ma-shops dealers are on holiday.  It seems kind of a strange time to go on holiday, during the dog days of summer.  April or May has a lot better weather.

I'd also be careful about bidding in unfamiliar auctions.  All it takes is for there to be one scam for one to be out of some money, although I'm not implying that this particular one is a scam.

[Dwarf]

It is the umpteenth time this issue is brought up in a coin forum - no matter in which language.

HVMC is an auction for arts and they play by these rules (as some coin-auctioneers in London did in the good-old-times when Tom, Dick , and Harry were not expected to bid at auctions - just well respected dealers personally in the salesroom.

As clearly stated in their "Terms of Sale" they are just the auctioneers and have nothing to do with shipment

Quote

It is for the buyer to insure his purchases and to collect the items at the Hôtel des Ventes de Monte-Carlo or one of his storages within 8 days

Furthermore

Quote

The purchases can be shipped, as a service, only upon
express written request, along with a liability release letter, and
shall be at the buyer’s expenses.

No problem to take a trip to Monaco - it is nice over there 😀

Regards
Klaus
 

 

[John Conduitt]

14 minutes ago, Dwarf said:

As clearly stated in their "Terms of Sale" they are just the auctioneers and have nothing to do with shipment

The purchases can be shipped, as a service, only upon express written request, along with a liability release letter, and shall be at the buyer’s expenses.

This is such a cop out by the auction house (and they're not the only one who does this). They know very well that people aren't going to travel to pick up their coins, given the auction is online. They just want to pass liability for the shipping to the customer, even though they do, of course, arrange the shipping like every other auction house.

[Prieure de Sion]

1 hour ago, Dwarf said:

It is the umpteenth time this issue is brought up in a coin forum - no matter in which language.

HVMC is an auction for arts and they play by these rules (as some coin-auctioneers in London did in the good-old-times when Tom, Dick , and Harry were not expected to bid at auctions - just well respected dealers personally in the salesroom.

As clearly stated in their "Terms of Sale" they are just the auctioneers and have nothing to do with shipment

1 hour ago, Dwarf said:

Furthermore

I didn't know you were there when I discussed shipping with the auction house BEFORE the auction?

 

For your information - I read the auction conditions. And since I knew I would almost certainly buy one or the other coin, I wrote to the auction house before the auction.

The answer from HVMC was that they do not generally offer standard shipping. But - by arrangement, shipping is of course possible for an extra charge. Also with insurance! They do offer shipping - if you clarify this beforehand - it is no problem at all.

So I was assured that insured shipping is not a problem at all. But since you don't ship on a large scale and don't have big discounts with the transport companies - shipping also costs a bit more. I have already paid 110 euros for shipping and insurance with the invoice.

Or who do you think I paid the 110 euros for shipping to and why 110 euros were on the invoice from HVMC? If I hadn't already negotiated everything with HVMC.

 

1 hour ago, Dwarf said:

As clearly stated in their "Terms of Sale" they are just the auctioneers and have nothing to do with shipment

And that is simply not true in general...

1 hour ago, Dwarf said:

when Tom, Dick , and Harry were not expected to bid at auctions

And these auction houses have also learned and changed. Shipping is not standard - but the worldwide bidders and times of Corona have shown that many also increase online and that you have to be flexible even after the sale...

 

 

To cut a long story short, I had clarified and been promised shipping before the auction. I was also invoiced for shipping. There were probably other customers (especially for coins) who agreed on shipping with the mail-order company - I was certainly not the only one. And if you arrange everything in advance - then you should tell your customers (whom you supply with shipping), but please be careful, the goods will not arrive until September because we are on holiday. This criticism can very well be voiced - since shipping before and after the auction was agreed upon by both sides. 

 

PS: I must correct myself - I did not pay 110 but 105 euros for shipping + insurance.

 

Edited August 8, 2023 by Prieure de Sion

[Prieure de Sion]

16 hours ago, Limes said:

Eehhhh... What? What kind of shipping is this? Or did you buy a Roman statue or something? 

To be fair, it has to be said that the auction house does not have a shipping volume like Leu, Naumann or Künker etc. Anyone who sends hundreds or thousands of parcels several times a year has different conditions. I think this auction house ships "manually" and you don't get any discounts here. Then there is the expensive insurance. As a small sender, you quickly run up costs of 40-60 euros with DHL Express and Co - plus the insurance. Just over 100 euros is realistic.

 

3 hours ago, Nerosmyfavorite68 said:

A bunch of European vcoins/ma-shops dealers are on holiday.  It seems kind of a strange time to go on holiday, during the dog days of summer.  April or May has a lot better weather.

The school holiday season in Europe is June, July and August. For many (families), this is the only chance to go on holiday together. And it has to be said - as a trader - that there is hardly anything going on in the shop during the summer months. Many are on holiday. And above all, many collectors have spent the money for the (expensive) holiday. In the evenings, people prefer to be in the beer garden instead of sitting in the room in front of the coins. The activities are more outside instead of inside. You already notice in summer that you have fewer sales. So it's ideal to go on holiday as a trader now 🙂

 

3 hours ago, Nerosmyfavorite68 said:

I'd also be careful about bidding in unfamiliar auctions.  All it takes is for there to be one scam for one to be out of some money, although I'm not implying that this particular one is a scam.

This is OT now. And it has nothing - I emphasise this - nothing to do with HVMC!

Perhaps it should not be said too loudly. But you know what surprises me? Why no one has come up with the idea yet. Create an auction with hundreds of lots of expensive antique coins that you don't even have. Write in the auction conditions that a certificate is necessary for the coins and that shipping can take 6-8 weeks. Auction the coins. I don't know of any auctions with payment on account. Everyone will transfer the money to you in advance. And you will never deliver a coin. There is no easier way to cheat. I'm surprised it hasn't happened already. Or is it already in the past? Is there a known case?

[Prieure de Sion]

Whoever criticises publicly - must also praise publicly.

The ladies and gentlemen of HVMC have probably also realised that the vote was not optimal from their side - and therefore had the parcel delivered to me this week. In their company holidays. That is very commendable and compensates for any annoyance.

 

Edited August 10, 2023 by Prieure de Sion