Leu wins thread

[Salomons Cat]

So far, I have received all of my coins. But one time it was very, very difficult and I really had to play detective...
That was after I participated in my very first auction at Gorny&Mosch. They sent the coins via UPS.
At first, I received a message from UPS in which they told me that they tried a delivery but I wasn't at home, so I should choose where to pick up the envelope. My choice was "closest UPS Acces Point". 
Then I used the tracking function on their website to see where my coins went - initially, it said "on the way to UPS Depot". But when I checked again on the website, it said something like "No status available, shipment could not be found" or something like that. I don't remember the exact words. However, they couldn't find my envelope. I called them several times, I sent them e-mails, but his didn't change during the next 7 days.
So, after one week I decided to drive 1 hour to the next UPS depot. Simpy because it was the last thing that I had read on the tracking website before my envelope apparently disappeared - and I wanted my coins.
That was a strange place. Although I live in one of the biggest cities in Switzerland, this UPS Depot was a big barn in the countryside with some trucks and a lot of parcels inside. To me, it looked really strange. There was also a small office inside the barn, so I went there to complain. It was quite dark inside this office and I don't even remember any windows. Inside the office, there were quite a lot of envelopes and parcels lying around, on desks and in shelves. Two guys were sitting there and they were shouting at their telephones - probably at some of their drivers who had made mistakes. I could get the attention of one of them after a while. He quickly checked some of the envelopes that were lying around everywhere inside the office and indeed, my envelope from Gorny&Mosch was one of them.
I still had to pay the import fees of 70 CHF. I paid it there, inside this office.

And, on top of that: Apparently, the guy in the office didn't annotate that I had paid the import fees. UPS sent me the invoice for these import fees at least 3 times and even threatened me with legal consequences if I wouldn't pay them. This stopped only after I had sent them a few very angry e-mails... Some innocent guy probably had to read them. I never got an excuse from anyone, but at least these invoices stopped.

So, I believe that these people at UPS were not dishonest, they also wouldn't steal anything. It's just a big anonymous shipping company where people have to handle many shipments inside a dark barn and they make mistakes. It seemed like a miracle to me that they didn't lose more shipments.

Edited August 18, 2023 by Salomons Cat

[Prieure de Sion]

8 hours ago, DonnaML said:

Thank you. So how long would you wait for the package to be found before requesting a refund: a couple of weeks? a month?  

 

Ok. How do I best explain this to you - I'll try as a trader. 

The problem is - the customer wants his money back quickly. That is understandable. I understand that as a trader too.

But there can only be a refund when the transport company officially (!) declares the shipment as a loss!

Let me try to explain.

You buy a coin for 2,000 USD from me. The shipment seems to be lost. But not yet officially! After 4 weeks I give you the money back. But 2 weeks later - you suddenly receive the consignment after all!

Then you have the coin!
You have the 2,000 USD back!
Since the parcel was delivered after all - the insurance company (or the carrier) pays nothing! 

I have no coin and no money - and can only hope that you will transfer the 2,000 USD to me again. But what dealer will want to take that risk?!

Therefore - a refund can only be made when the transport company officially declares the shipment as lost. Because from that point on, the insurance pays. And then it doesn't matter - if you get the coin after 2 or 3 months.

And now for some not so good news.

I once had to wait 2 months for a letter from Switzerland. And during that time, when I wasn't sure it was lost, I understandably didn't get a refund. And the shipment actually arrived after 2 months.

So when your refund takes place depends on how quickly it is determined whether the shipment has been lost or not! 

Unless LEU gives you a refund as a gesture of goodwill beforehand. However, I know it more like this: first the shipment has to be officially deemed lost. That is the norm. But as I said, I also understand the sellers. If things go badly, the shipment arrives all of a sudden and you have sent the money back and now have nothing. 

[DonnaML]

3 hours ago, Prieure de Sion said:

 

Ok. How do I best explain this to you - I'll try as a trader. 

The problem is - the customer wants his money back quickly. That is understandable. I understand that as a trader too.

But there can only be a refund when the transport company officially (!) declares the shipment as a loss!

Let me try to explain.

You buy a coin for 2,000 USD from me. The shipment seems to be lost. But not yet officially! After 4 weeks I give you the money back. But 2 weeks later - you suddenly receive the consignment after all!

Then you have the coin!
You have the 2,000 USD back!
Since the parcel was delivered after all - the insurance company (or the carrier) pays nothing! 

I have no coin and no money - and can only hope that you will transfer the 2,000 USD to me again. But what dealer will want to take that risk?!

Therefore - a refund can only be made when the transport company officially declares the shipment as lost. Because from that point on, the insurance pays. And then it doesn't matter - if you get the coin after 2 or 3 months.

And now for some not so good news.

I once had to wait 2 months for a letter from Switzerland. And during that time, when I wasn't sure it was lost, I understandably didn't get a refund. And the shipment actually arrived after 2 months.

So when your refund takes place depends on how quickly it is determined whether the shipment has been lost or not! 

Unless LEU gives you a refund as a gesture of goodwill beforehand. However, I know it more like this: first the shipment has to be officially deemed lost. That is the norm. But as I said, I also understand the sellers. If things go badly, the shipment arrives all of a sudden and you have sent the money back and now have nothing. 

You are being unnecessarily dogmatic. The problem with that theory is that the US Post Office never will declare the shipment officially lost. It just won't find it.  And I have previously been issued refunds by large dealers and auction houses for lost coins after some time passes, without waiting for such a declaration or for payment by their insurance company.  They have actually managed to trust my assurance that I would repay them if the coins ever arrived. Needless to say, they never have arrived. And unlike a relatively small individual trader such as yourself, the companies can bear the financial risk. 

Edited August 18, 2023 by DonnaML

[Ancient Coin Hunter]

Sorry to see that the coins are still missing Donna.

[Prieure de Sion]

1 hour ago, DonnaML said:

You are being unnecessarily dogmatic. The problem with that theory is that the US Post Office never will declare the shipment officially lost. It just won't find it.  And I have previously been issued refunds by large dealers and auction houses for lost coins after some time passes, without waiting for such a declaration or for payment by their insurance company.  They have actually managed to trust my assurance that I would repay them if the coins ever arrived. Needless to say, they never have arrived. And unlike a relatively small individual trader such as yourself, the companies can bear the financial risk. 

 

Sorry Donna, English is not my mother tongue. Maybe I misunderstood you and/or expressed myself wrongly. My intention was - that you asked me what specific period of time one has to calculate / wait. And I wanted to explain to you that this cannot be said in general terms.

Because as you say - it depends on the company and how well you are known there and how the company reacts to you as a customer. Because they COULD say, we want and have to wait until we have clarified what happened to the letter. 

When you say big auction house and good customer.

My example is from Nomos in Switzerland. This is not a small auction house either. And I am a very good customer there. But when I still hadn't received my letter post after 2 months (!), they still didn't want to make a refund and first wanted to clarify what had happened to it (after just over 2 months, however, the letter post did arrive). I already wanted a refund after 6 weeks of missing items - but the auction house wanted to wait until it was clear what had happened to the item. So once again, I thought you had a specific question with a specific time - and I think this is an individual matter that cannot be answered across the board. That's all I wanted to say.

[DonnaML]

17 minutes ago, Prieure de Sion said:

 

Sorry Donna, English is not my mother tongue. Maybe I misunderstood you and/or expressed myself wrongly. My intention was - that you asked me what specific period of time one has to calculate / wait. And I wanted to explain to you that this cannot be said in general terms.

Because as you say - it depends on the company and how well you are known there and how the company reacts to you as a customer. Because they COULD say, we want and have to wait until we have clarified what happened to the letter. 

When you say big auction house and good customer.

My example is from Nomos in Switzerland. This is not a small auction house either. And I am a very good customer there. But when I still hadn't received my letter post after 2 months (!), they still didn't want to make a refund and first wanted to clarify what had happened to it (after just over 2 months, however, the letter post did arrive). I already wanted a refund after 6 weeks of missing items - but the auction house wanted to wait until it was clear what had happened to the item. So once again, I thought you had a specific question with a specific time - and I think this is an individual matter that cannot be answered across the board. That's all I wanted to say.

I understand!

I will wait a few weeks to see if the package is found before requesting a refund. Who knows; maybe I'll get lucky before then 

 

[Prieure de Sion]

1 hour ago, DonnaML said:

I will wait a few weeks to see if the package is found before requesting a refund. Who knows; maybe I'll get lucky before then 

It has happened to me several times that mail items have reappeared out of nowhere, completely unexpectedly, and were delivered after all. I hope your item turns up again!

Even though you will certainly get the money back from Leu - it's always better when the coins you wanted arrive.

[Limes]

Im still waiting for my coins to leave the 'verzollungsprozess'...

Any updates @DonnaML, if you have the energy to share, that is...? 

Edit: anyone planning to participate in their web auction, from 9 - 11 september? Another auction, with hunderds and hundreds of coins. Its [almost] an overkill! 

Edited August 26, 2023 by Limes

[DonnaML]

4 hours ago, Limes said:

Im still waiting for my coins to leave the 'verzollungsprozess'...

Any updates @DonnaML, if you have the energy to share, that is...? 

Edit: anyone planning to participate in their web auction, from 9 - 11 september? Another auction, with hunderds and hundreds of coins. Its [almost] an overkill! 

No news. I expect nothing at this point. Just waiting until it's reasonable to ask for a refund. 

[Limes]

3 hours ago, DonnaML said:

No news. I expect nothing at this point. Just waiting until it's reasonable to ask for a refund. 

Sorry to hear that DonnaML.... 

[kirispupis]

8 hours ago, Limes said:

Edit: anyone planning to participate in their web auction, from 9 - 11 september? Another auction, with hunderds and hundreds of coins. Its [almost] an overkill! 

No. This is a completely uninteresting auction with not a single coin worthy of notice. I highly advise everyone to not bid on anything... 🙂 

[Roman Collector]

13 minutes ago, kirispupis said:

No. This is a completely uninteresting auction with not a single coin worthy of notice. I highly advise everyone to not bid on anything... 🙂 

Especially the Faustina II provincials. Nothing to see. Move along.

[El Cazador]

14 hours ago, Limes said:

anyone planning to participate in their web auction, from 9 - 11 september? Another auction, with hunderds and hundreds of coins. Its [almost] an overkill! 

Absolutely, i have about 5 coins i am aiming for

[John Conduitt]

It would be interesting if any missing coins were from the stolen list.

Edited August 26, 2023 by John Conduitt

[DonnaML]

On Monday, August 10, I finally wrote to Leu in Switzerland (with a copy to its US representative) to request a refund. Here is an excerpt from my email:

"Dear Ms. ----- and Mr. -----

It is now exactly one month since my package containing the three coins I won in your Web Auction 26 vanished on 10 August 2023 while it was "out for delivery," supposedly being transported from the local U.S. post office branch for zip code xxxxx to my apartment building -- a distance of 0.7 miles, or just over 1 kilometer! It has been almost that long since I filed a "missing mail" claim with the US Post Office, with no success whatsoever to date. As I have repeatedly emphasized, this is NOT a case of a package being stuck in U.S. Customs, or lost while making its way across the United States or even across New York City. Nor is this a case of the Post Office claiming that the package was delivered to me; instead, there has been a "delivery exception" noted since August 10. 

If my package hasn't been found yet, it is impossible for me to believe that it will ever be found. Beyond searching in the post office branch building and in the delivery truck, which I'm sure was done long ago, where exactly is the US Post Office supposed to look for my package after a month has passed?  Either it "fell off the truck," or never was put on the truck, or  someone working for the post office stole it. Whatever happened, it hasn't arrived and is extraordinarily unlikely to arrive. Nor can anyone expect the Post Office to issue an official declaration that the package is "lost" and cannot be found. The case will simply float in limbo indefinitely. . . .

Has Leu at least put out some sort of alert to coin dealers and the numismatic press to watch out for the three coins I purchased, in case someone stole or "found" them, and should attempt to sell them?

Regardless of what steps Leu has taken, I am now requesting a refund. I see no purpose in waiting any longer. . . ."

I was dumbfounded by the following response I received the next day, from a different person at Leu than the ones I had been dealing with:

"Dear Mrs. --------:

Thank you for your email. We have sent an investigation request to the Swiss Post on 17.08.2023. Please note that it can take several weeks for the Swiss Post to get back to us regarding your missing parcel. Thank you for your patience and we wish you a good day.

[Name omitted]

Administration

Leu Numismatik AG"

 

I have, so far, refrained from sending Leu the apopleptically angry response to this nonsensical email that I immediately contemplated. Is Leu genuinely this out of touch with reality, or is it simply being non-responsive and obfuscatory, and refusing to deal with any of the actual facts in this matter, in order to avoid refunding my money? Even apart from the fact that it's already been more than "several weeks" since Leu sent its investigation request to Swiss Post on August 17,  what does Swiss Post have to do with this, and what could it possibly do to find my package or "investigate" its loss that the US Post Office itself hasn't been able to do? My package passed out of Swiss Post's jurisdiction when my package was turned over to US Customs on August 8, and then came into US Post Office's possession on August 9 (according to the tracking history). Swiss Post certainly had nothing to do with the "delivery exception" arising from the USPS's failure to deliver my package on August 10. And there's nothing that Swiss Post can report to Leu beyond what the USPS tells Swiss Post about what happened. Does Leu really think that Swiss Post is planning to send an investigator to Washington Heights to interrogate the personnel at my local USPS branch and locate the package themselves? 

This is completely absurd, and I don't even know what to say at this point. Perhaps I should have offered, or should now offer, that if Leu refunds my money, I'll be happy to edit my missing mail request with the US Post Office to ask that if the package is ever found, it should be returned to Leu rather than forwarded to me, so there won't be any risk that I end up with both the coins and the money? 

It's too bad in a way that I tried to save money by paying with Wise rather than by credit card, so that I have no practical recourse other than depending on Leu to behave ethically.

All suggestions on what to do are welcome. @Julius Germanicus, you've dealt with people at Leu, including the "higher ups." Is there anything you can think of that I could do, or anyone else I could contact, to get Leu to give me a real, human response instead of playing these disrespectful games with me and acting as if they were stereotypical Swiss bankers who only know the word "no"? 

I am so disgusted by all this that I not only haven't made any new coin purchases since July, but am on the verge, even if I do eventually get my money back, of vowing never to buy any ever again, or at least for a long time, except perhaps in person. And certainly never again from Leu!

Many thanks.

[El Cazador]

32 minutes ago, DonnaML said:

On Monday, August 10, I finally wrote to Leu in Switzerland (with a copy to its US representative) to request a refund. Here is an excerpt from my email:

"Dear Ms. ----- and Mr. -----

It is now exactly one month since my package containing the three coins I won in your Web Auction 26 vanished on 10 August 2023 while it was "out for delivery," supposedly being transported from the local U.S. post office branch for zip code xxxxx to my apartment building -- a distance of 0.7 miles, or just over 1 kilometer! It has been almost that long since I filed a "missing mail" claim with the US Post Office, with no success whatsoever to date. As I have repeatedly emphasized, this is NOT a case of a package being stuck in U.S. Customs, or lost while making its way across the United States or even across New York City. Nor is this a case of the Post Office claiming that the package was delivered to me; instead, there has been a "delivery exception" noted since August 10. 

If my package hasn't been found yet, it is impossible for me to believe that it will ever be found. Beyond searching in the post office branch building and in the delivery truck, which I'm sure was done long ago, where exactly is the US Post Office supposed to look for my package after a month has passed?  Either it "fell off the truck," or never was put on the truck, or  someone working for the post office stole it. Whatever happened, it hasn't arrived and is extraordinarily unlikely to arrive. Nor can anyone expect the Post Office to issue an official declaration that the package is "lost" and cannot be found. The case will simply float in limbo indefinitely. . . .

Has Leu at least put out some sort of alert to coin dealers and the numismatic press to watch out for the three coins I purchased, in case someone stole or "found" them, and should attempt to sell them?

Regardless of what steps Leu has taken, I am now requesting a refund. I see no purpose in waiting any longer. . . ."

I was dumbfounded by the following response I received the next day, from a different person at Leu than the ones I had been dealing with:

"Dear Mrs. --------:

Thank you for your email. We have sent an investigation request to the Swiss Post on 17.08.2023. Please note that it can take several weeks for the Swiss Post to get back to us regarding your missing parcel. Thank you for your patience and we wish you a good day.

[Name omitted]

Administration

Leu Numismatik AG"

 

I have, so far, refrained from sending Leu the apopleptically angry response to this nonsensical email that I immediately contemplated. Is Leu genuinely this out of touch with reality, or is it simply being non-responsive and obfuscatory, and refusing to deal with any of the actual facts in this matter, in order to avoid refunding my money? Even apart from the fact that it's already been more than "several weeks" since Leu sent its investigation request to Swiss Post on August 17,  what does Swiss Post have to do with this, and what could it possibly do to find my package or "investigate" its loss that the US Post Office itself hasn't been able to do? My package passed out of Swiss Post's jurisdiction when my package was turned over to US Customs on August 8, and then came into US Post Office's possession on August 9 (according to the tracking history). Swiss Post certainly had nothing to do with the "delivery exception" arising from the USPS's failure to deliver my package on August 10. And there's nothing that Swiss Post can report to Leu beyond what the USPS tells Swiss Post about what happened. Does Leu really think that Swiss Post is planning to send an investigator to Washington Heights to interrogate the personnel at my local USPS branch and locate the package themselves? 

This is completely absurd, and I don't even know what to say at this point. Perhaps I should have offered, or should now offer, that if Leu refunds my money, I'll be happy to edit my missing mail request with the US Post Office to ask that if the package is ever found, it should be returned to Leu rather than forwarded to me, so there won't be any risk that I end up with both the coins and the money? 

It's too bad in a way that I tried to save money by paying with Wise rather than by credit card, so that I have no practical recourse other than depending on Leu to behave ethically.

All suggestions on what to do are welcome. @Julius Germanicus, you've dealt with people at Leu, including the "higher ups." Is there anything you can think of that I could do, or anyone else I could contact, to get Leu to give me a real, human response instead of playing these disrespectful games with me and acting as if they were stereotypical Swiss bankers who only know the word "no"? 

I am so disgusted by all this that I not only haven't made any new coin purchases since July, but am on the verge, even if I do eventually get my money back, of vowing never to buy any ever again, or at least for a long time, except perhaps in person. And certainly never again from Leu!

Many thanks.

Sorry to hear about this situation @Donna, I sympathize, but This is exactly the reason I NEVER use Wise….

Edited September 13, 2023 by El Cazador

[Brennos]

I had the same problem with CNG for a shipment to France : Coin "lost" in transit between Paris customs and my home. 

It took almost four months before I was refunded...

 

[filolif]

I have a sense Leu may just be going through a protocol no matter how nonsensical it may be in this particular situation. As slow as these auction houses are to fulfil our purchases, it doesn't surprise me that they're even slower to refund our money when we are owed it. Even in your case where you've done as much as you can do from your end to try to receive the coins.

Hopefully they will get you your money back when Swiss Post inevitably tells them the package was lost and there's nothing to be done. Keep us updated! Best of luck.

Edited September 13, 2023 by filolif

[ajax]

12 hours ago, DonnaML said:

On Monday, August 10, I finally wrote to Leu in Switzerland (with a copy to its US representative) to request a refund. Here is an excerpt from my email:

"Dear Ms. ----- and Mr. -----

It is now exactly one month since my package containing the three coins I won in your Web Auction 26 vanished on 10 August 2023 while it was "out for delivery," supposedly being transported from the local U.S. post office branch for zip code xxxxx to my apartment building -- a distance of 0.7 miles, or just over 1 kilometer! It has been almost that long since I filed a "missing mail" claim with the US Post Office, with no success whatsoever to date. As I have repeatedly emphasized, this is NOT a case of a package being stuck in U.S. Customs, or lost while making its way across the United States or even across New York City. Nor is this a case of the Post Office claiming that the package was delivered to me; instead, there has been a "delivery exception" noted since August 10. 

If my package hasn't been found yet, it is impossible for me to believe that it will ever be found. Beyond searching in the post office branch building and in the delivery truck, which I'm sure was done long ago, where exactly is the US Post Office supposed to look for my package after a month has passed?  Either it "fell off the truck," or never was put on the truck, or  someone working for the post office stole it. Whatever happened, it hasn't arrived and is extraordinarily unlikely to arrive. Nor can anyone expect the Post Office to issue an official declaration that the package is "lost" and cannot be found. The case will simply float in limbo indefinitely. . . .

Has Leu at least put out some sort of alert to coin dealers and the numismatic press to watch out for the three coins I purchased, in case someone stole or "found" them, and should attempt to sell them?

Regardless of what steps Leu has taken, I am now requesting a refund. I see no purpose in waiting any longer. . . ."

I was dumbfounded by the following response I received the next day, from a different person at Leu than the ones I had been dealing with:

"Dear Mrs. --------:

Thank you for your email. We have sent an investigation request to the Swiss Post on 17.08.2023. Please note that it can take several weeks for the Swiss Post to get back to us regarding your missing parcel. Thank you for your patience and we wish you a good day.

[Name omitted]

Administration

Leu Numismatik AG"

 

I have, so far, refrained from sending Leu the apopleptically angry response to this nonsensical email that I immediately contemplated. Is Leu genuinely this out of touch with reality, or is it simply being non-responsive and obfuscatory, and refusing to deal with any of the actual facts in this matter, in order to avoid refunding my money? Even apart from the fact that it's already been more than "several weeks" since Leu sent its investigation request to Swiss Post on August 17,  what does Swiss Post have to do with this, and what could it possibly do to find my package or "investigate" its loss that the US Post Office itself hasn't been able to do? My package passed out of Swiss Post's jurisdiction when my package was turned over to US Customs on August 8, and then came into US Post Office's possession on August 9 (according to the tracking history). Swiss Post certainly had nothing to do with the "delivery exception" arising from the USPS's failure to deliver my package on August 10. And there's nothing that Swiss Post can report to Leu beyond what the USPS tells Swiss Post about what happened. Does Leu really think that Swiss Post is planning to send an investigator to Washington Heights to interrogate the personnel at my local USPS branch and locate the package themselves? 

This is completely absurd, and I don't even know what to say at this point. Perhaps I should have offered, or should now offer, that if Leu refunds my money, I'll be happy to edit my missing mail request with the US Post Office to ask that if the package is ever found, it should be returned to Leu rather than forwarded to me, so there won't be any risk that I end up with both the coins and the money? 

It's too bad in a way that I tried to save money by paying with Wise rather than by credit card, so that I have no practical recourse other than depending on Leu to behave ethically.

All suggestions on what to do are welcome. @Julius Germanicus, you've dealt with people at Leu, including the "higher ups." Is there anything you can think of that I could do, or anyone else I could contact, to get Leu to give me a real, human response instead of playing these disrespectful games with me and acting as if they were stereotypical Swiss bankers who only know the word "no"? 

I am so disgusted by all this that I not only haven't made any new coin purchases since July, but am on the verge, even if I do eventually get my money back, of vowing never to buy any ever again, or at least for a long time, except perhaps in person. And certainly never again from Leu!

Many thanks.

I would say do not worry, you will get a refund but it will take time. They sent the package and paid Swiss post so it is normal that they file a claim with swiss post who will in turn request information from USPS. On top maybe this is the procedure to be followed in the sla with their insurance (if such an insurance actually exists). Of course with their advertised millions of profits they could spare you the waiting time. But if you are not one of their major clients they wouldn't bother.

Edited September 13, 2023 by ajax

[DonnaML]

@Julius Germanicus was kind enough to contact Leu on my behalf after reading my post yesterday, and was told -- much as @ajax has surmised -- that filing a claim with Swiss Post, and receiving a report confirming that the package has been lost, is a prerequisite to Leu's being able to file a claim with its insurer; Leu expected to receive such a report within the next couple of weeks.

By a remarkable coincidence, I didn't have to wait two weeks: I received an email from Leu this morning stating that they had just received the necessary notification from Swiss Post, and, accordingly, had issued a credit to me in the amount I paid:  

"Today we have received the confirmation of SwissPost that unfortunately your parcel was lost, and right away we have issued the credit note. You received it this afternoon with separate email.

The confirmation of SwissPost was necessary in order to have the loss covered by our insurance. We hope you agree that we take full responsibility and comprehend that there are necessary steps to follow that may require some time and patience.

Thank you for your understanding and kind regards," etc.

A statement crediting me with the sum I paid was attached.

While it may simply be a language issue, a "credit note" doesn't sound exactly like a refund to me. I wrote back thanking Leu but making clear that a credit alone wouldn't presently benefit me given that I don't know when or even if I'll be making any purchases from Leu in the future, and repeating my request for an actual refund (whether via paypal or a bank transfer). I also explained that after I receive the refund, I will edit my "missing mail" search form with the US Post Office to provide that in the (very unlikely) event that the package is found, it should be returned to Leu rather than delivered to me.

We shall see what happens.

In any event, I am somewhat relieved (conditionally at least!). I'm glad that I refrained from sending Leu an angry response to the email I received on Tuesday, and decided to vent here instead!

 

Edited September 14, 2023 by DonnaML

[El Cazador]

17 hours ago, filolif said:

I have a sense Leu may just be going through a protocol no matter how nonsensical it may be in this particular situation. As slow as these auction houses are to fulfil our purchases, it doesn't surprise me that they're even slower to refund our money when we are owed it. Even in your case where you've done as much as you can do from your end to try to receive the coins.

Hopefully they will get you your money back when Swiss Post inevitably tells them the package was lost and there's nothing to be done. Keep us updated! Best of luck.

Why are you confused by my post, can I help you clarify things? Seems like you are confused pretty easily… just want to be helpful here..

[DonnaML]

5 minutes ago, El Cazador said:

Why are you confused by my post, can I help you clarify things? Seems like you are confused pretty easily… just want to be helpful here..

Just a wild guess, but perhaps the reason @filolif used the "confused" emoji for your post responding to my account of what happened was simply that a comment saying "I sympathize, but . . . ," isn't usually a good look? I highly doubt that @filofif didn't understand what you meant, given that I had just made the point in my post that Wise doesn't cancel a transfer if things don't work out with a purchase. Any more than a bank would.
 

[El Cazador]

31 minutes ago, DonnaML said:

Just a wild guess, but perhaps the reason @filolif used the "confused" emoji for your post responding to my account of what happened was simply that a comment saying "I sympathize, but . . . ," isn't usually a good look? I highly doubt that @filofif didn't understand what you meant, given that I had just made the point in my post that Wise doesn't cancel a transfer if things don't work out with a purchase. Any more than a bank would.
 

Why not a good look, just speaking the truth and how i feel, but using Wise - you take a risk and we all know the mantra around risk/roi - otherwise nobody would be using PP or CC - at the end, unfortunately- you get what you pay for and I recognize it might be unpleasant to hear…. Hence I sympathize, but…

Edited September 14, 2023 by El Cazador

[John Conduitt]

18 hours ago, El Cazador said:

Why not a good look, just speaking the truth and how i feel, but using Wise - you take a risk and we all know the mantra around risk/roi - otherwise nobody would be using PP or CC - at the end, unfortunately- you get what you pay for and I recognize it might be unpleasant to hear…. Hence I sympathize, but…

Never using Wise is probably a false economy. If you buy through Leu, a credit card costs 3% more than Wise, usually plus a worse exchange rate. If that's typical, paying by card means you expect the package to be lost once every 33 times or more and not to be compensated. For major auction houses, or even minor ones, that's very unlikely. I doubt even one in 33 packages is lost, and almost all that are lost are compensated (eventually). Leu even charge you for insurance, so you are going to get your money back buying through them.

Even paying by card it isn't guaranteed to get your money back - the seller can dispute your claim and you have to provide proof.

Edited September 14, 2023 by John Conduitt

[kirispupis]

FWIW, I always pay Leu through wire. I'm not about to give them 3% or 5% more. I've purchased from them six times before (and won three coins at their latest auction) and have yet to have an issue. For FedEx delivery, I always choose a FedEx location about a mile from my house where I pick up the package.

Leu is one of three auction houses where I'll pay via wire because I've done enough business with them that I trust that - in the rare chance something happens - they'll reimburse me.

I'm honestly not sure how many numismatic packages I've received over the last three years, but it's probably 150-200. Most of those were from Europe. To date (knocking some wood as I type) only one of those packages was lost and it was USPS sent without tracking. I've never not received an international package, nor have I not received a package with tracking. I've had a number of close calls, but eventually it's gotten here...