New Tarentum book

[Deinomenid]

There'd been a few comments on 2 earlier books by these authors (earliest coins and diobols) so I thought I'd flag a new one which covers a big chunk of Tarentum's  output.

Fwiw, the other 2 were helpful,  clear,  well-illustrated etc so I'm  hoping the same for this. Plus  it's in English (and Italian) unlike the other major  Tarentum modern work which although excellent, is "only" in German. Apologies for the Anglocentric nature of this post!

 

Not cheap at 100 euros, but these rarely are, and they usually get more expensive over time too.

 

 

 

[Romismatist]

Thanks @Deinomenid, yes, this is Volume II and is currently in print. You beat me to it; my copies are being shipped to me currently, and I was going to post about this when they arrived. I'm just reviewing Volume III (the final volume), which is expected to go into print this summer.

The other work you're probably referring to is the one solely focused on the diobols of Tarentum. That one is incredible as it has pictures of pretty much every Tarentum diobol in public collections and recent auctions that are out there. It's a great resource if you're into die matching and comparisons for that fractional denomination.

Alberto has done a really fantastic job with these works and yes, I think it expands the readership to have the volume in both English and Italian. It's been really great working with Alberto on this. I would say that this series brings analysis of the coinage of Tarentum into the 21st century, expanding on Fischer-Bossert but building in recent developments as well as bronze and later coinage.

[Deinomenid]

Yep - the  other of the 2 was the first (I think) - coins from  the 6th century to 350 - again a really worthwhile buy.

[Phil Anthos]

Hello, this is my first post here so I'll try not to embarrass myself.

I collect Magna Graecia in general and Taras in particular, so I was hoping these books would fill a serious need. I have the first two volumes as well as Diobols, and they all get thumbs up so far. Of particular use is the coverage of fractional coinage which has been sadly neglected imo. 

The layout is pleasant and the plates excellent, and although I find navigation a bit awkward that might smooth out as I become more familiar.

~ Peter Hope 

Edited June 13, 2023 by Phil Anthos

[Deinomenid]

On 6/12/2023 at 8:44 PM, Phil Anthos said:

The layout is pleasant and the plates excellent, and although I find navigation a bit awkward that might smooth out as I become more familiar.

Welcome Peter.

Yes indeed, and the other issue is there are now at least 3  systems for classifying my coins chronologically!  Vlasto's  numbers,  FB's groups and numbers and  these authors' series and numbers!  Though I wish there were such a  problem/embarrassment  of choice with some other  mints  in the region.

Also  I only  just read the foreword, which says there are 2  more books in the series coming out soon,  one on the remaining  years of the mint and one more thematically -based.

 

Here's a recentish purchase (which I overegged the bidding on as it was a decent coin from Vlasto's  collection aka  I lacked the discipline so essential at CNG auctions.)

It is a Vlasto 516, a Bossert Group 48, 678c AND a  D'Andrea Series XXXIII 538. Oh my!

 

CALABRIA, Tarentum. Circa 344-340 BC. AR Nomos (20mm, 7.78 g, 7h). Warrior, nude but for crested helmet, holding spear and shield, standing facing, head right, behind horse standing right; |- to right / Phalanthos, nude, holding trident and shield, on dolphin left; below, A above waves. Fischer-Bossert Group 48, 678c (V259/R525) = Vlasto 516 (this coin); HN Italy 889; SNG ANS 963 (same dies). Deep old iridescent tone, small test cut on edge. VF.
Ex Michel Pandely Vlasto (†1936) Collection.
 

 

 

[Phil Anthos]

In 3 more months I will be fully retired and I plan on spending quite some time redoing my collection. Hopefully I can reconcile all these sources into a comprehensive system.

Deinomenid that is a beautiful coin, and one of my favorites which have yet to aquire. And what a provenance!

I have five or six Vlasto plate coins, but no didrachms so far. Congratulations!

~ Peter Hope 

 

 

Edited June 21, 2023 by Phil Anthos
grammar

[Phil Anthos]

So I've decided to go all in with D'Andrea and I've started a massive overhaul of my Taras collection. It's work, especially with these old eyes, but it has already proved rewarding as I have discovered I own a D'Andrea plate coin!  🙂

Taras, Calabria

385-380 BC AR 3/8 Obol (7mm, 0.15g, 7h) O: Head of nymph Satyra right, within dotted border. R: Kantharos; three pellets around. D'Andrea Series XXII, 410 (this coin); Vlasto ---- Rare ~ Peter

[Theodosius]

Welcome Peter!

Good luck on your recataloging efforts, that must be very satisfying.  I've been planning on doing something similar when I retire.

John

[Deinomenid]

10 hours ago, Phil Anthos said:

So I've decided to go all in with D'Andrea

It's 3 months since you said you were retiring  in 3 so congratulations there if all went to plan! I D'Andrea'd too (new verb) and the slight issue there is that though he defers to Fischer-Bossert a lot in general terms (rightly so in my  view) there are a lot of tweaks which become more exaggerated over the life of the mint so a collection might get quite reshuffled. That plus the  auction houses are usually fixated on Vlasto, then FB and rarely D'Andrea. I got myself in a bit of a pickle between Vlasto order, then  FB, then D'Andrea. But you are right, you've got to go all in with one! And then of course for  anything after 280BC or so there's no current D'andrea, as far as I know.

 

Here's a recent pickle example from  towards the end  of what I think is available - with the numberings getting more and more divergent over time.

D'Andrea Series XXXVIII 834 and Vlasto 658 and Fischer-Bossert, Group 75 ~947-972. 

Didrachm, c.302BC, naked youth crowning himself on horseback right, ΣA over Ionic capital below horse, rev. TARAS Palanthos riding dolphin left, holding coiled serpent in right hand, KON below, all within slight incuse.

 

That "incuse" nags at me too as  not quite right, and I am  hoping just an overstrike or somesuch.

 

 

[Phil Anthos]

Hi D,

I actually got fired about 3 weeks before I retired, lol. My heart wasn't in it and my work definitely suffered so I don't blame them and I don't really care. More time with my dog and my collection!  🙂

I've found at least one numbering typo so far, but I'm liking the way it's going to this point. I'm a bit obsessive about accuracy so it's going slowly.

I'm going D'Andrea, Vlasto and then F-B, with others afterwards. I placed F-B 3rd because of it's limitations (short length of history, no fractions). But giving up on the Vlasto dating, while obviously necessary, was difficult for me. That's an old friend!

I have 13 done so far, so 90 more to go.

~ Peter 

Edited September 13, 2023 by Phil Anthos

[Phil Anthos]

1 hour ago, Deinomenid said:

It's 3 months since you said you were retiring  in 3 so congratulations there if all went to plan! I D'Andrea'd too (new verb) and the slight issue there is that though he defers to Fischer-Bossert a lot in general terms (rightly so in my  view) there are a lot of tweaks which become more exaggerated over the life of the mint so a collection might get quite reshuffled. That plus the  auction houses are usually fixated on Vlasto, then FB and rarely D'Andrea. I got myself in a bit of a pickle between Vlasto order, then  FB, then D'Andrea. But you are right, you've got to go all in with one! And then of course for  anything after 280BC or so there's no current D'andrea, as far as I know.

 

Here's a recent pickle example from  towards the end  of what I think is available - with the numberings getting more and more divergent over time.

D'Andrea Series XXXVIII 834 and Vlasto 658 and Fischer-Bossert, Group 75 ~947-972. 

Didrachm, c.302BC, naked youth crowning himself on horseback right, ΣA over Ionic capital below horse, rev. TARAS Palanthos riding dolphin left, holding coiled serpent in right hand, KON below, all within slight incuse.

 

That "incuse" nags at me too as  not quite right, and I am  hoping just an overstrike or somesuch.

 

 

That certainly appears to be an overstrike as the ethnic should be right against the edge.

~ Peter 

[Deinomenid]

2 hours ago, Phil Anthos said:

13 done so far, so 90 more to go

You going for the full set? 😀

[Phil Anthos]

Oh yeah, if my eyes hold up!  😉

[Phil Anthos]

I've got 28 done so far, and just found that I have another D'Andrea plate coin, which is also a Vlasto plate coin!  😎

Taras, Calabria

375/70-370-65 BC AR Diobol (11.5mm, 1.15g, 2h) O: Head of Athena right, wearing crested Attic helmet decorated with hippocamp. R: Naked Herakles seated half-left on dead lion left, holding cup in right hand and club in left. D'Andrea XXIV, 450 (this coin); Vlasto 1235 (this coin); SNG Cop 968 (same dies); HGC I, 829; HN Italy 910 Extremely Rare From the AG Collection. ex Michel Pandely Vlasto Collection

~ Peter 

Edited September 15, 2023 by Phil Anthos

[Phil Anthos]

I just found out this one is a plate coin too, although from 'The Diobols ofTarentum'. This is still work but it's becoming much more fun!

Taras, Calabria

290-281 BC (Period VIII) AR Diobol (13mm, 0.87g) O: Head of Athena left, wearing crested Corinthian helmet. R: Herakles standing left, strangling the Nemean lion; club behind, TAPAN(?) to left. D'Andrea XL, 965; Vlasto 1416-19; HN Italy 1064 Very rare ~ Peter

Edited September 15, 2023 by Phil Anthos

[Phil Anthos]

Yep, absolutely brutal work!  😉

~ Peter 

[Phil Anthos]

It's slowing down quite a bit now that I've done most of the easy ones. But I am up to 7 plate coins so far. The problem now is I need that 3rd volume!

I've been to the Edizioni D'Andrea site and they show it available but for some reason I can't buy it. There are two other Italian sites which show it in stocks but no payment method I can use. 

They say patience is a virtue, but it's not one of mine.

~ Peter 

[Deinomenid]

I'd just email  him. He's usually very quick to reply. It's Alberto, the main author  whose publishing company  it  is (I think.) Alberto is the one  who usually replies anyway to this email -

info@edizionidandrea.it

 

 

 

 

[Phil Anthos]

Thank you.

I actually just emailed him. Their site lists it as avaible but there doesn't seem to be a way to click. 

I've seen it on two other Italian sites for €95 but the same issue.

~ Peter 

[Phil Anthos]

I heard back from Alberto and he informed me that there has been a delay and the third volume should be available in October. He graciously offered to ship me one directly as soon as it comes out.

Meanwhile I am reviewing what I have so far, fixing typos and scanning for more 'plate coins'. Up to 9 now.

I'm also starting to rearrange my online gallery to the new chronology, and that will require rewriting a lot of the historical information. What have I started?!

~ Peter 

[Phil Anthos]

Yesterday after some delays I finally received the 3rd volume of D'Andrea. I immediately dove right in and nearly finished my didrachms. Still a couple of problem attributions to resolve, but I have found two more plate coins.  🙂

~ Peter 

 

[hotwheelsearl]

On 9/13/2023 at 6:17 PM, Phil Anthos said:

Hi D,

I actually got fired about 3 weeks before I retired, lol. My heart wasn't in it and my work definitely suffered so I don't blame them and I don't really care. More time with my dog and my collection!  🙂

I've found at least one numbering typo so far, but I'm liking the way it's going to this point. I'm a bit obsessive about accuracy so it's going slowly.

I'm going D'Andrea, Vlasto and then F-B, with others afterwards. I placed F-B 3rd because of it's limitations (short length of history, no fractions). But giving up on the Vlasto dating, while obviously necessary, was difficult for me. That's an old friend!

I have 13 done so far, so 90 more to go.

~ Peter 

Not that it matters, but how does that impact any pension??

[Phil Anthos]

No pension involved, just SSI. 🙁

[Phil Anthos]

Well I'm within 10 coins of finishing the first stage of my project, adding to and correcting attributions, although these final fractional coins will be tough.

I have found a few errors so far... an incorrect symbol description, two descriptions transposed, and one case in which a plate coin is claimed to be from an auction in 2019 but has actually been in my collection since 2015!

The next phase will be rewriting the histories and descriptions since these books have really shaken up some of the dating.

Onward,

~ Peter