Philip II Tetradrachm

[DimitriosL]

Greetings, excited to share my first win. I paid a little bit more than I was comfortable with but I just fell in love with this obverse. I also think marks that lower the price of a fine coin are a big plus!

[sand]

Congratulations @DimitriosL. That's a nice looking portrait of Philip II. I agree with your statement, about test cuts. 😉

[John Conduitt]

Beautiful coin. Nice to see it was used in trade.

[DimitriosL]

39 minutes ago, sand said:

Congratulations @DimitriosL. That's a nice looking portrait of Philip II. I agree with your statement, about test cuts. 😉

Thanks mate! They are a win win  since they provide historical context as well!

[DimitriosL]

23 minutes ago, John Conduitt said:

Beautiful coin. Nice to see it was used in trade.

Thank you! Makes it more intriguing for sure.

[NewStyleKing]

Tell us about these coins?  When produced, what are the pointers. Where was they used, what for.......  Eg. Posthumous , balkan celtic tribes,  the non- Attic weight......

Edited April 3, 2023 by NewStyleKing

[Fortuna Redux]

Congratulations and what a lovely portrait of Zeus! I've bid on another Philip II tet in the same auction and won it as well, luckily we didn't compete on the same coin😜

[DimitriosL]

55 minutes ago, NewStyleKing said:

Tell us about these coins?  When produced, what are the pointers. Where was they used, what for.......  Eg. Posthumous , balkan celtic tribes,  the non- Attic weight......

I'm gonna disappoint you but my knowledge on specifics such as mint marks etc is very limited. My criteria for choosing coins  are the aesthetic value and the people that are connected with them( don't excommunicate me). I know, however, that it is a Philip II of macedon Tetradrachm, probably posthumous from what I ve seen, minted in Amphipolis under the rule of Philip III, Alexander's lesser stepbro. There are very experienced veterans here whose input I would appreciate greatly.

[DimitriosL]

4 minutes ago, Fortuna Redux said:

Congratulations and what a lovely portrait of Zeus! I've bid on another Philip II tet in the same auction and won it as well, luckily we didn't compete on the same coin😜

We dodged a bullet there man! Congrats to you too then, there were all pretty nice coins in that auction.

[Fortuna Redux]

30 minutes ago, DimitriosL said:

We dodged a bullet there man! Congrats to you too then, there were all pretty nice coins in that auction.

Nice auction indeed, you don't always have 20 Philip II Tets in one auction (and with good quality!) so I sense a good opportunity to grab one.

I was interested in the Macedon Protectorate Tets as well but my pocket was empty after the win..... will fight another day

[NewStyleKing]

I am for knowledge over beauty!  To my knowledge, Phillip ll coins are found frequently in the Balkans..eg Bulgaria. There are lots of imitations that ,like the Thasos coins, degenerate in beauty!  Masses have been sold fairly recently.

This would premise that they became a coinage produced for mercenaries. The NewStyle did too, Aesillias coinage too!  I wish somebody could find a review of coins produced as payment for mercenaries  on behalf of the Roman state , ( and others!?).

 

Of, course this brings up the fact that theses specimens have been recently SMUGGLED, despite the many objectors to this plainly obvious fact! So there is a little of Richard Beale in all of us!

Edited April 3, 2023 by NewStyleKing

[DimitriosL]

1 minute ago, Fortuna Redux said:

Nice auction indeed, you don't always have 20 Philip II Tets in one auction (and with good quality!) so I sense a good opportunity to grab one.

I was interested in the Macedon Protectorate Tets as well but my pocket was empty after the win..... will fight another day

Beautiful as well but I couldn't keep up with their price. Cheers!

[Ryro]

Great coin of a great man!

Here's mine:

[DimitriosL]

24 minutes ago, Ryro said:

Great coin of a great man!

Here's mine:

Very nice friend, congrats!

[DimitriosL]

38 minutes ago, NewStyleKing said:

I am for knowledge over beauty!  To my knowledge, Phillip ll coins are found frequently in the Balkans..eg Bulgaria. There are lots of imitations that ,like the Thasos coins, degenerate in beauty!  Masses have been sold fairly recently.

This would premise that they became a coinage produced for mercenaries. The NewStyle did too, Aesillias coinage too!  I wish somebody could find a review of coins produced as payment for mercenaries  on behalf of the Roman state , ( and others!?).

 

Of, course this brings up the fact that theses specimens have been recently SMUGGLED, despite the many objectors to this plainly obvious fact! So there is a little of Richard Beale in all of us!

Interesting input mate, I appreciate it. I agree with the last part, although we can't be sure for the journey a coin had to reach us, it is a risk most collectors take. I can't be sure if this coin is an imitation or not, but I have seen many examples online and in museums and it seems pretty high end to be that case. 

[John Conduitt]

46 minutes ago, NewStyleKing said:

I am for knowledge over beauty!  To my knowledge, Phillip ll coins are found frequently in the Balkans..eg Bulgaria. There are lots of imitations that ,like the Thasos coins, degenerate in beauty!  Masses have been sold fairly recently.

This would premise that they became a coinage produced for mercenaries. The NewStyle did too, Aesillias coinage too!  I wish somebody could find a review of coins produced as payment for mercenaries  on behalf of the Roman state , ( and others!?).

 

Of, course this brings up the fact that theses specimens have been recently SMUGGLED, despite the many objectors to this plainly obvious fact! So there is a little of Richard Beale in all of us!

I agree if you like Greek coins, it must be all but impossible to be sure to avoid anything that crossed a border against the authority’s wishes.

That’s still not the same as being like Richard Beale, but it’s worth thinking about.

[NewStyleKing]

of, course I only meant a CONTEMPORARY imitation, some imitations are better than others. Often those imitations are so bad that it can only be the weight of silver that is important and the person who made and passed them!

 

There are peop[le out there, not me, who know this and are learned on it , but unlike me they keep such things close to their chest!  Beauty without knowledge is the acne of coin collecting.  Anyone like come over the parapet and admit when looking at coins...say, the 20 Phillips, they thought either someone had a boring collection of coins  or that this is a find!

There is very little to learn from a collection of 20 phillips...except where they were found, and what with........... but let's dream on!  I wonder if the wonder of metal detecting played a part!......   

I see a connection with R Beale, only some people are fanatical about provenance and will pay millions for a provenanced coin, and he knew that, we on lesser ans less famous coins cannot be bothered, just from a UK collection  will do fine...as in my collection.  The only case I know is a Andrew.... who started getting rid of his Roman republicans  and getting provenanced coins in their stead. But he moved in greater circles than I and obviously could afford to do so!  Admit it folks, coins are smuggled, illegally dug....BUT if I can learn anything of them I will look, speculate and publish..........many collectors only collect in a smug self satisfying pointless way, just like Museo Archaeolgica Chieti with it's portion of the Poggio Picenze Hoard IGCH 2056..what's the difference! If the NewStyles were in my hands, I would have done the work by now and published them....for free!  So it makes Chieti a partner in numismatical ignorance and crime!

Good ol Richard Beale, at least the Gold Eid Mar got published after lots of good research!  So is anyone going to try and chase the modern history of the Phillip ll tets?

[kapphnwn]

The coin posted by @DimitriosL is a Tetradrachm struck at Amphipolis 323-317 BC In the name and types of Philip II of Macedon. Thus nominally it is struck for Alexander IV/ Philip III however it was struck by Antipater. It is Le Rider pl 45 15-16 It would appear that Antipater decided to resume production of this coinage after something of a hiatus of 5 to 7 years. This is my roughly contemporary example

Tetradrachm in the name and types of Philip II Pella 323-315 BC Obv Head of Zeus right laureate Rv  Youth on prancing horese right Le Rider 524  14.35 grms 23 mm Photo by W. Hansen This series was continued by his son Kassander ending circa 305 BC, It is the coins that are minted during this period that there could be a debate as to which are official and which are contemporary copies. 

[DimitriosL]

1 hour ago, NewStyleKing said:

of, course I only meant a CONTEMPORARY imitation, some imitations are better than others. Often those imitations are so bad that it can only be the weight of silver that is important and the person who made and passed them!

 

There are peop[le out there, not me, who know this and are learned on it , but unlike me they keep such things close to their chest!  Beauty without knowledge is the acne of coin collecting.  Anyone like come over the parapet and admit when looking at coins...say, the 20 Phillips, they thought either someone had a boring collection of coins  or that this is a find!

There is very little to learn from a collection of 20 phillips...except where they were found, and what with........... but let's dream on!  I wonder if the wonder of metal detecting played a part!......   

I see a connection with R Beale, only some people are fanatical about provenance and will pay millions for a provenanced coin, and he knew that, we on lesser ans less famous coins cannot be bothered, just from a UK collection  will do fine...as in my collection.  The only case I know is a Andrew.... who started getting rid of his Roman republicans  and getting provenanced coins in their stead. But he moved in greater circles than I and obviously could afford to do so!  Admit it folks, coins are smuggled, illegally dug....BUT if I can learn anything of them I will look, speculate and publish..........many collectors only collect in a smug self satisfying pointless way, just like Museo Archaeolgica Chieti with it's portion of the Poggio Picenze Hoard IGCH 2056..what's the difference! If the NewStyles were in my hands, I would have done the work by now and published them....for free!  So it makes Chieti a partner in numismatical ignorance and crime!

Good ol Richard Beale, at least the Gold Eid Mar got published after lots of good research!  So is anyone going to try and chase the modern history of the Phillip ll tets?

Yes I see your point. I trust/hope that the auction house is legit. Do you see anything suspicious on my coin? What are some usual signs of forgery?

[DimitriosL]

3 minutes ago, kapphnwn said:

The coin posted by @DimitriosL is a Tetradrachm struck at Amphipolis 323-317 BC In the name and types of Philip II of Macedon. Thus nominally it is struck for Alexander IV/ Philip III however it was struck by Antipater. It is Le Rider pl 45 15-16 It would appear that Antipater decided to resume production of this coinage after something of a hiatus of 5 to 7 years. This is my roughly contemporary example

Tetradrachm in the name and types of Philip II Pella 323-315 BC Obv Head of Zeus right laureate Rv  Youth on prancing horese right Le Rider 524  14.35 grms 23 mm Photo by W. Hansen This series was continued by his son Kassander ending circa 305 BC, It is the coins that are minted during this period that there could be a debate as to which are official and which are contemporary copies. 

Thanks for the information mate! Amazing coin u got there! Yes I see. Numismatic naumann was the auction house. Have u had any dealings with them? Does this issue seem legit to u?

[NewStyleKing]

No problems! I have no doubt it's real. It maybe ( I don't really know, my expertise is the Athens NewStyle), maybe posthumous. But looks official to me!  Look up celtic, Danubian celts for the imitations produced by them of Phillip the ll coins!  Numismatik Neuman  I have bought from  with no problems...would do again!

[DimitriosL]

3 minutes ago, NewStyleKing said:

No problems! I have no doubt it's real. It maybe ( I don't really know, my expertise is the Athens NewStyle), maybe posthumous. But looks official to me!  Look up celtic, Danubian celts for the imitations produced by them of Phillip the ll coins!  Numismatik Neuman  I have bought from  with no problems...would do again!

Thank you friend, always important to get feedback for auction houses when you are new in the field. 

[Al Kowsky]

50 minutes ago, kapphnwn said:

The coin posted by @DimitriosL is a Tetradrachm struck at Amphipolis 323-317 BC In the name and types of Philip II of Macedon. Thus nominally it is struck for Alexander IV/ Philip III however it was struck by Antipater. It is Le Rider pl 45 15-16 It would appear that Antipater decided to resume production of this coinage after something of a hiatus of 5 to 7 years. This is my roughly contemporary example

Tetradrachm in the name and types of Philip II Pella 323-315 BC Obv Head of Zeus right laureate Rv  Youth on prancing horese right Le Rider 524  14.35 grms 23 mm Photo by W. Hansen This series was continued by his son Kassander ending circa 305 BC, It is the coins that are minted during this period that there could be a debate as to which are official and which are contemporary copies. 

Breath taking example 🤩!

[Sulla80]

The contemporary imitations can be pretty appealing: this one imitating Le Rider pl. 47, 23

Eastern Europe, imitating Philip II of Macedon, 3rd century BC, AR Tetradrachm, (25mm, 13.80g). Complete legend type. Struck in the central and lower Carpathian region (Modern Romania)

Obv: Laureate head of Zeus right

Rev: ΦIΛIΠΠ-OY, Nude youth on horseback left, holding rein and palm frond; Λ above torch below, monogram below raised foreleg.

 

[DimitriosL]

1 hour ago, Sulla80 said:

The contemporary imitations can be pretty appealing: this one imitating Le Rider pl. 47, 23

Eastern Europe, imitating Philip II of Macedon, 3rd century BC, AR Tetradrachm, (25mm, 13.80g). Complete legend type. Struck in the central and lower Carpathian region (Modern Romania)

Obv: Laureate head of Zeus right

Rev: ΦIΛIΠΠ-OY, Nude youth on horseback left, holding rein and palm frond; Λ above torch below, monogram below raised foreleg.

 

That's surprisingly close to the real stuff.