Argos: the dog that up and died

[Ryro]

I purchased an iconic Roman Republic coin today. It merely shows Homer's Odysseus dressed as a bum trying not to acknowledge his only friend left in Ithaca, his dog; who is lying neglected on a pile of cow manure, infested with fleas, old and very tired. While Odysseus hides a tear:

C. MAMILIUS LIMETANUS. Serrate Denarius (82 BC). Rome.

Obv: Draped bust of Mercury right, wearing petasus; to left, control letter [N] above caduceus.

Rev: C MAMIL / LIMETAN.

Ulysses advancing right, holding staff and extending hand to his dog Argus.

Crawford 362/1.

Condition: Area of weakness, otherwise Very fine.

Weight: 3.66 g.

Diameter: 20 mm

Neglected and unacknowledged, the dog that waited twenty years to see his master again dies. 

 

 

 

Edited March 27, 2023 by Ryro

[Roman Collector]

Coingratulations on acquiring a long-coveted reverse type! That one is on my list of Republican reverse types I'd like to acquire soon. So, I don't have any coins to share, but I will share this classic from the Nitty Gritty Dirt Band, with the lyrics:

"His dog up and died
He up and died
After twenty years he still grieves"

 

 

[Ryro]

2 minutes ago, Roman Collector said:

Coingratulations on acquiring a long-coveted reverse type! That one is on my list of Republican reverse types I'd like to acquire soon. So, I don't have any coins to share, but I will share this classic from the Nitty Gritty Dirt Band, with the lyrics:

"His dog up and died
He up and died
After twenty years he still grieves"

 

 

Thanks, my man!

Kind of fitting that Bojangles still grieved after twenty years. That's the same amount of time Argos waited for Odysseus!

[Steve]

Saddest story "ever" ... man, I love dogs 

Horribly sad story, but fantastic and cool animal-coin (for the win!)

Cheers

Oh, and here are a few doggy-coins ... woof-woof, arf!!

 

Edited March 27, 2023 by Steve

[kirispupis]

That's a very cool obverse and it's one of those coins that tempts me to go after Roman Republicans. 

I only have one 'dog' coin.

Thrace, Madytos
Circa 350 BCE
AE 8.57g, 19mm, 11h
Bull butting to left; fish above
ΜΑΔY, dog seated to right; grain ear to left
SNG Copenhagen 923-924 var. (grapes above bull); CN Type 8144; HGC 3.2, 1507

 

It too has an interesting story. Hecuba was the mother of Paris, Hector, and Kassandra. After the Trojans lost the war, she was given to Odysseus as a slave. She, in turn, wasn't fond of this turn of events and made it very clear to Odysseus what she thought of him. There are various stories of what happened thereafter, but all were supposedly around Madytos, where her tomb was.

In the first story, she turned into a dog and managed to escape Odysseus' ship. That's the Disney version.

A different version has Odysseus stoning her to death, after which she turned into a dog.

Yet another one has Odysseus stoning her, then burying her and calling it "bitch's grave."

[Ryro]

9 minutes ago, Steve said:

Saddest story "ever" ... man, I love dogs 

Horribly sad story, but fantastic and cool animal-coin (for the win!)

Cheers

Oh, and here are a few doggy-coins ... woof-woof, arf!!

 

Bitchin' dog RR coins!

And yeah, leaves a lump in the throat every time I think about it. Those damn Greeks understood human emotions. 

Here are some more RR dogs of mine:

 

[kirispupis]

Just found another doggie.

Crete, Kydonia
Circa 4th century BCE
Æ 1.89g, 13mm, 9h
Young male head to left
Hound seated to right, [KY]ΔΩ around.
Svoronos, Numismatique 49; SNG Copenhagen 412

 

[Alegandron]

Great Denarius @Ryro! I got mine for my old Blue. She later passed 2years ago. 
Now, I have recently brought Indy into my life. Her pic is my avatar. Reckon I’ll have to get a coin for her! She is 14wks now, but she has really become my buddy!  

Blue was a Beagle-Basset-Australian Shepherd. Indy is a Corgi-Australian Shepherd (only see the Aussie in her pink and black mottled nose - otherwise, she is all Corgi).

Roman Republic C Mamilius 82 BCE AR Denarius Serrate Mercury winged petasos caduceus Ulysses Dog Argos Sear 282 Craw 362-1

[DonnaML]

Great coin, @Ryro! Here's my example:

Some other dog coins. I'm fond of dogs, but I'm way too lazy ever to want to own one. I'm more of a cat lady, even though I'm (sadly) catless at the moment.

 

DonnaML, Jul 8, 2021Report

 

[ambr0zie]

The C. Mamilius Limetanus denarius with Ulysses was on the top of my wish list for a long while. I managed to get a satisfactory example last December. For some reason there were LOTS of them available in the December auctions so I managed to get one without breaking the bank at all. It is slabbed - I was tempted to break the slab, but I will not, as in the end it offers extra protection. The coin is quite nice in hand, but I am not sure why did the owner decide grading is needed, as it's not a top example. 

 

C. Mamilius Limetanus, 82 BC. Serrate Denarius, Rome. 3,75 g.
Draped bust of Mercury to right, wearing winged petasus and with caduceus over his left shoulder; behind, S. Rev. C•MAMIL LIMET͡AN, Ulysses advancing right, holding walking stick in his left hand and extending his right towards his dog Argus, on the right, standing left.
Babelon (Mamilia) 6. Crawford 362/1. RBW 1370 var. (differing control-letter on the obverse). Sydenham 741. 

Interesting fact about the reason behind the reverse scene: the Mamilia gens derived its origin from Mamilia, the daughter of Telegonus, the reputed son of Ulysses and Circe, and thus C. Mamilius, as monetal triumvir, caused this subject to be adopted on his coins. 

The only other RR dog in my collection is another type I find iconic and struggled to find an example. 

A Provincial dog from Saitta, not very visible:

 

Edited March 27, 2023 by ambr0zie

[ominus1]

congrats Ryro!...a much admired coin amongst ancient collectors. ( i know i want one ^^)🙂....i DO have a doggo coin of the RR....from about 146BC...

Edited March 27, 2023 by ominus1

[Alegandron]

17 hours ago, DonnaML said:

Great coin, @Ryro! Here's my example:

Some other dog coins. I'm fond of dogs, but I'm way too lazy ever to want to own one. I'm more of a cat lady, even though I'm (sadly) catless at the moment.

 

DonnaML, Jul 8, 2021Report

 

Wow, Donna, I thought you had a couple cats. Sorry you are catless now…

I have always liked your dog Denarii, and your Argos version is a super example!

Maybe, this is one of the heavier of the dawgies here…

ROMAN Republic, 
Aes Grave Issue,
Æ Quadrans, 59.82g
269-242 BCE
Mint of Rome Anonymous issue
Obv: dog walking left, three pellets below
Rev six-spoked wheel, three pellets between
Ref: Cr 26/6a; Thurlow-Vecchi 34
Comments Dark green patina, fine.
Ex: from the David Sellwood Collection
Ex: Baldwin

Edited March 27, 2023 by Alegandron

[Alegandron]

3 hours ago, ominus1 said:

congrats Ryro!...a much admired coin amongst ancient collectors. ( i know i want one ^^)🙂....i DO have a doggo coin of the RR....from about 146BC...

Really like that dawg creepin behind ole Roma!

[Ryro]

19 hours ago, Alegandron said:

Great Denarius @Ryro! I got mine for my old Blue. She later passed 2years ago. 
Now, I have recently brought Indy into my life. Her pic is my avatar. Reckon I’ll have to get a coin for her! She is 14wks now, but she has really become my buddy!  

Blue was a Beagle-Basset-Australian Shepherd. Indy is a Corgi-Australian Shepherd (only see the Aussie in her pink and black mottled nose - otherwise, she is all Corgi).

Roman Republic C Mamilius 82 BCE AR Denarius Serrate Mercury winged petasos caduceus Ulysses Dog Argos Sear 282 Craw 362-1

My man! That is great to read. I remember when you lost Blue. I am glad that you have brought a new pup into your life.

I'm just waiting for my wife's bird to die so I can get a dog for the boys... and me😊

[kirispupis]

12 minutes ago, Ryro said:

My man! That is great to read. I remember when you lost Blue. I am glad that you have brought a new pup into your life.

I'm just waiting for my wife's bird to die so I can get a dog for the boys... and me😊

We had a dog, but he's a zombie now.

True story. Our neighbor stopped by one day and chewed out my wife for letting our dog in her yard, where she claimed it dug up some of her plants. My wife explained that the scenario was unlikely, given that our dog had died two years prior and was buried in our backyard. She then stated that this fact precluded his adventures in her backyard.

However, our neighbor wasn't happy with that response so she dragged my wife over to her yard to show the damage. My wife then replied that, if our neighbor's statement was correct, then we clearly had bigger issues.

Therefore, given my neighbor has stated there's absolutely no possibility she's incorrect and the damage she demonstrated could not have been perpetrated by a raccoon, our dog is now a zombie.

[DonnaML]

1 hour ago, Alegandron said:

Wow, Donna, I thought you had a couple cats. Sorry you are catless now…I

Thank you, @Alegandron. Sadly, my wonderful Ziggy passed away at home in late September -- the last day of summer -- after a long illness, at the age of 16 1/2. I still miss him so much, and I'm just not ready to adopt again yet.

Edited March 27, 2023 by DonnaML

[Alegandron]

17 minutes ago, DonnaML said:

Thank you, @Alegandron. Sadly, my wonderful Ziggy passed away at home in late September -- the last day of summer -- after a long illness, at the age of 16 1/2. I still miss him so much, and I'm just not ready to adopt again yet.

So hard. It took me 2yrs after Blue to find a good Soul.

[Edessa]

Celtic Tribes. Illyria, Dyrrhachion imitation. Circa 1st century BC. AR Drachm (17mm, 2.62g). Obv: Cow standing right with suckling calf; garbled legend above, hound running left below. Rev: Double stellate pattern; garbled legend around. Ref: Prototype cf. Hoover HGC 3.1, 40. Nice Fine, toned. 

[Alegandron]

DAWGIES

ROMAN REPUBLIC DENARII


RR Lucius Caesius 112-111 BCE AR Den Apollo dog Lares Praestites S 175 Craw 298-1



RR AR Den C Antestius Rome 146 BCE 3.97g 19.0mm Helm Roma R X C ANTESTI - Dioscuri gllpng R puppy-dog running ROMA Cr 219-1e

 

RR C Hosidius C F Geta 68 BCE Diana bow quiver Boar Hound spear Dog Sear 346 Craw 407-2

 

RR Anon AE Half-Litra 234-231 BCE Roma Phrygian Dog S 598 Cr 26-4

 

INDY

[Steve]

Hey Donna, I am sorry to hear that you are cat-less at the moment (hopefully, you'll allow additional cats to fill your life with love? TBD)

... man, I love cats as well, but dogs are my true spirit-animal ...

The first photo (below) is of my "late best-friends" => Buster (English Spaniel) and Larry (my baby-girl, wolf road-rescue)

... the 2nd & 3rd photos are of "Hector" => my 2 year-old English Spaniel (he has become my new best-friend)

DOGS ROCK!! (they are good for your soul)

Cheers to all of you pet-owners ... awkward ... I seem to like/get-along with animals better than I get-along with humans (just ask my  sweet wife)

; )

whatev ... have a great day, coiners (great animal-thread, Ryro ... keep that shit up!!)

Edited March 28, 2023 by Steve

[Alegandron]

1 hour ago, Steve said:

Hey Donna, I am sorry to hear that you are cat-less at the moment (hopefully, you'll allow additional cats to fill your life with love? TBD)

... man, I love cats as well, but dogs are my true spirit-animal ...

The first photo (below) is of my "late best-friends" => Buster (English Spaniel) and Larry (my baby-girl, wolf road-rescue)

... the 2nd & 3rd photos are of "Hector" => my 2 year-old English Spaniel (he has become my new best-friend)

DOGS ROCK!! (they are good for your soul)

Cheers to all of you pet-owners ... awkward ... I seem to like/get-along with animals better than I get-along with humans (just ask my  sweet wife)

; )

whatev ... have a great day, coiners (great animal-thread, Ryro ... keep that shit up!!)

Yeah, Dawgs are Soul-Buddies!

Indy is always with me, even in the office...

Edited March 28, 2023 by Alegandron

[AETHER]

 

Ryro's old Argo under Pegasus 

[NewStyleKing]

Didn't the Romans sacrifice dogs when reviewing troops? ( Iranians today sacrifice animals on reviewing troops)They also swore oaths over pig sacrifices  and the Sumerians bound oaths on the sacrifice of a foal of a donkey! Frenzied Greek females sacrificed piglets on a rare day out..the Thesmophoria?  Indeed animals got it in the neck and still do!

[Nerosmyfavorite68]

There was a Totalus Rankium story about one of the 9th century Byzantine emperors sticking dog um, parts, in his mouth to consummate a treaty with Bulgaria, allegedly a Bulgar treaty tradition.  I've listened to so many lately, it runs together who it was.  Almost certainly an invention by the historians - unless the Bulgars were pranksters.

[Sulla80]

Congrats @Ryro, a great RR denarius with the story of Odysseus' faithful companion.  Here's my favorite Roman coin with dog (Laconian hound or Vertragus? see video for more on ancient breeds):

 

Edited April 2, 2023 by Sulla80