a Maximianus with an interesting bust

[Nerosmyfavorite68]

The Totalus Rankium episode of Maximianus inspired me to buy my first Maximianus since 2011 (and before that, the 1990's).

Trawling around vcoins I found this fairly interesting bust.  The coins is pretty true to the photograph; the surfaces are rusty beneath the silvering.

MAXIMIANUS AE silvered antoninianus. Lugdunum mint, first reign, 290-291 AD. IMP MAXIMIANVS AVG, radiate and cuirassed bust of Maximian to left, holding spear and shield. Rev. SALVS AVGG, C in exergue, Salus standing right, feeding serpent from patera. Bastien 413. Cohen 519. RIC 422. 23mm.  Ex: Incitatus Coins.

I had the choice of buying two excellent, but non-descript silvered Maximianus Ants, or the unusual one.  I went for the out of the ordinary one.

I also threw in this fairly decrepit coin as a stocking stuffer. What intrigued me about it was actually the verdigris.  There were a bunch of Maxentius-era folles, and most looked like they had been stuck together. Note the coin-shaped verdigris on the obverse.

Maximianus (306-308) - AE Follis - RIC 294b 26mm., 6.7g. Ticinum.

Even though I only have a small handful, the coins of Maxentius are my favorite of the tetrarchy era.  I need to get around to picking up a truly excellent Maxentius.

The Antoninianus bust hearkens back to the busts of Probus, albeit in a simplified form.  It looked like they were lazy about engraving the neck.

Question: why didn't more emperors have elaborate busts?

Isn't there also a consular Antoninianus of Maximianus?

Feel free to post non-typical busts of Maximianus or the tetrarchy.  I do remember a day during the 1990's when I was intending to buy an excellent silvered, helmeted tetrarchal follis from Jon Subak.  I think it was Maximinus Daia?  I'll have to dig around to see if I did purchase it.

Turnaround time from Incitatus coins was quite excellent. I'll have to ask him to ditch the Tuck tape (Canadian version of gorilla tape?).  After much bellowing, I managed to extricate the coins from the wretched red tape, having to leave the flips entombed.  I did, however, like the construction paper.  The heavy construction paper acted like those stick-together cardboard mailers, only it was easier to open.

This is the bust (from Wikipedia) which they attribute to Maximianus.  While better than the average bust of the Tetrarchy, they did rather mess up the nose (unless that was some war wound?).  The eyes also seem kind of crooked.

Maximianus also reminded me of the Gladiator soundtrack.  It had been years since I listened to it, and had quite a bit of trouble finding the tracks which I enjoyed ("The Battle", "The Might of Rome"), since I had conflated it with the Rome soundtrack. Hans Zimmer does masterfully convey the impression of an advancing Roman army. 

Edited February 10, 2023 by Nerosmyfavorite68

[thejewk]

Nice. I love the little ants from Lugdunum, but don't own any yet.  They had some great die engravers, and great busts.

[Ancient Coin Hunter]

1 hour ago, Nerosmyfavorite68 said:

The Totalus Rankium episode of Maximianus inspired me to buy my first Maximianus since 2011 (and before that, the 1990's).

Trawling around vcoins I found this fairly interesting bust.  The coins is pretty true to the photograph; the surfaces are rusty beneath the silvering.

MAXIMIANUS AE silvered antoninianus. Lugdunum mint, first reign, 290-291 AD. IMP MAXIMIANVS AVG, radiate and cuirassed bust of Maximian to left, holding spear and shield. Rev. SALVS AVGG, C in exergue, Salus standing right, feeding serpent from patera. Bastien 413. Cohen 519. RIC 422. 23mm.  Ex: Incitatus Coins.

I had the choice of buying two excellent, but non-descript silvered Maximianus Ants, or the unusual one.  I went for the out of the ordinary one.

I also threw in this fairly decrepit coin as a stocking stuffer. What intrigued me about it was actually the verdigris.  There were a bunch of Maxentius-era folles, and most looked like they had been stuck together. Note the coin-shaped verdigris on the obverse.

Maximianus (306-308) - AE Follis - RIC 294b 26mm., 6.7g. Ticinum.

Even though I only have a small handful, the coins of Maxentius are my favorite of the tetrarchy era.  I need to get around to picking up a truly excellent Maxentius.

The Antoninianus bust hearkens back to the busts of Probus, albeit in a simplified form.  It looked like they were lazy about engraving the neck.

Question: why didn't more emperors have elaborate busts?

Isn't there also a consular Antoninianus of Maximianus?

Feel free to post non-typical busts of Maximianus or the tetrarchy.  I do remember a day during the 1990's when I was intending to buy an excellent silvered, helmeted tetrarchal follis from Jon Subak.  I think it was Maximinus Daia?  I'll have to dig around to see if I did purchase it.

Turnaround time from Incitatus coins was quite excellent. I'll have to ask him to ditch the Tuck tape (Canadian version of gorilla tape?).  After much bellowing, I managed to extricate the coins from the wretched red tape, having to leave the flips entombed.  I did, however, like the construction paper.  The heavy construction paper acted like those stick-together cardboard mailers, only it was easier to open.

This is the bust (from Wikipedia) which they attribute to Maximianus.  While better than the average bust of the Tetrarchy, they did rather mess up the nose (unless that was some war wound?).  The eyes also seem kind of crooked.

Maximianus also reminded me of the Gladiator soundtrack.  It had been years since I listened to it, and had quite a bit of trouble finding the tracks which I enjoyed ("The Battle", "The Might of Rome"), since I had conflated it with the Rome soundtrack. Hans Zimmer does masterfully convey the impression of an advancing Roman army. 

Great soundtrack. I like the Wheat and also the devotional track when Maximus is remembering his ancestors.

[Ancient Coin Hunter]

Here are a couple of Maximianus coins:

 

The first is a very rare type of Alexandria, text within a laurel wreath, ex Leu Numismatik (August, 2021 auction)

 

 

And a follis of London I believe, ex The Jamesicus collection (James Pickering)

:

Edited February 10, 2023 by Ancient Coin Hunter

[Al Kowsky]

Pictured below is the first example of a Maximian coin I added to my collection on July 27, 2007, from a Freeman & Sear auction. It's a choice nummus struck at the Ticinum mint, circa AD 294-295, RIC 23b.

[Roman Collector]

I like the portrait on that antoninianus, @Nerosmyfavorite68. Here's one of mine with an interesting portrait. Bobble-headed abdication Maximian with a flan flaw:


Maximian, post-abdication, 305-306 CE.
Roman billon follis, 8.26 g, 25 mm, 1 h.
Antioch, 305-306 CE.
Obv: D N MAXIMIANO FELICISSIMO SEN AVG, laureate bust, right, wearing consular robes and holding branch and mappa.
Rev: PROVIDENTIA DEORVM QVIES AVGG, Providentia standing right, extending right hand to Quies standing left, holding down-facing branch and resting on scepter; I in field between them, ANT: in exergue.
Refs: RIC 77b, Cohen 489, RCV 13414.

[Ancient Coin Hunter]

22 hours ago, Roman Collector said:

I like the portrait on that antoninianus, @Nerosmyfavorite68. Here's one of mine with an interesting portrait. Bobble-headed abdication Maximian with a flan flaw:


Maximian, post-abdication, 305-306 CE.
Roman billon follis, 8.26 g, 25 mm, 1 h.
Antioch, 305-306 CE.
Obv: D N MAXIMIANO FELICISSIMO SEN AVG, laureate bust, right, wearing consular robes and holding branch and mappa.
Rev: PROVIDENTIA DEORVM QVIES AVGG, Providentia standing right, extending right hand to Quies standing left, holding down-facing branch and resting on scepter; I in field between them, ANT: in exergue.
Refs: RIC 77b, Cohen 489, RCV 13414.

Nice coin. I like the abdication folles of both the primary tetrarchs. Even though maximianus pretty much retired kicking and screaming.

[hotwheelsearl]

1 hour ago, Ancient Coin Hunter said:

Nice coin. I like the abdication folles of both the primary tetrarchs. Even though maximianus pretty much retired kicking and screaming.

Unlike D, who retired to farm cabbages. What a dude.

[Jims,Coins]

AE (post reform radiate fraction) (20 mm, 3.53 g., 6h) minted at Ticinum during MAXIMIANUS, first reign, in 299 A.D. Obv. IMP.C.M.A.MAXIMIANVSP.F.AVG. radiate, draped, & cuirassed bust right. Rev. VOT/XX, in two lines within wreath. Officina below legend. RCS #3640. RICVI #386 var. Dark green-brown patina. Good VF.

[Jims,Coins]

Bronze coin (AE Antoninianus) minted at Antioch during the reign of MAXIMIANUS in 285 A.D. Obv. IMP.C.M.AVR.VAL.MAXIMIANVS.P.F.AVG.: rad., dr. & cuir. bust r. Rev. IOVI.CONSERVATO-RI. AVGG.: Emperor standing r., holding sceptre and receiving Victory on globe from Jupiter stg. l., holding sceptre. RIC V pII #623 pg.294.

[Hrefn]

I am chagrined to admit I strayed from an area in which I am somewhat knowledgeable to assemble a few coins from the era of the Tetrarchy.  I already had a follis of Constantine the Great, and of his rival Maxentius, because their confrontation at the Milvian Bridge in AD 312 is a pivotal moment in world history.  Even a collector like myself who focuses on the Fall of the West and the rise of the Eastern Roman Empire, and what the French call the Haut Moyen Âge, can appreciate the destruction of the Tetrarchy and the ascendency of the House of Constantine as the foundation of all that subsequent history.  So here are Constantine I and Maxentius:

And I already had a follis of Constantine’s father Constantius I:

Obviously, I needed to add Diocletian, the originator of the Tetrarchy.  And did.

Next, I spotted this coin which appealed to me. Even though it is not an unreduced follis, it seemed like a logical addition.  So I purchased this Maximianus:

So here is where I have become confused.  Both Maximianus and Galerius used the name Maximianus.   Is this not Galerius?   I have a recollection that this has been discussed before but an admittedly cursory search for the discussion did not unveil it.  Let me add that I am not looking to contradict the dealer, nor to return the coin, which I really like.  I would just like to have a better understanding of what I have.  I know many of you here have much more experience and knowledge in this area, which I invite you to share.

 

[Steppenfool]

12 minutes ago, Hrefn said:

So here is where I have become confused.  Both Maximianus and Galerius used the name Maximianus.   Is this not Galerius?   I have a recollection that this has been discussed before but an admittedly cursory search for the discussion did not unveil it.  Let me add that I am not looking to contradict the dealer, nor to return the coin, which I really like.  I would just like to have a better understanding of what I have.  I know many of you here have much more experience and knowledge in this area, which I invite you to share.

 

Yes there are two clues. The GAL VAL in the obverse legend for Galerius Valerius, and the NOB CAES also in the obverse legend. Maximian was never Caesar he was immediately co-Augustus, so it can't be him!

[Roman Collector]

Warren Esty has a great page on how to distinguish between Galerius and Maximianus.

[Hrefn]

37 minutes ago, Roman Collector said:

Warren Esty has a great page on how to distinguish between Galerius and Maximianus.

Thank you, this is exactly what I was looking for.  And thanks to @Steppenfool as well.  

[Nerosmyfavorite68]

And I also think that's a post-reform radiate, not an Antoninianus.

[Ocatarinetabellatchitchix]

On 2/10/2023 at 12:20 PM, Nerosmyfavorite68 said:

Trawling around vcoins I found this fairly interesting bust. 

Did he copy it from old Victorinus or what ?

 

[Steppenfool]

I really enjoy the busts that show hands/chests/shoulders etc. that are actually in proportion. My impression is that the engravers often exaggerated the head and then squeezed in the rest the best they could. Yours is a lovely example of a well proportioned depiction! @Nerosmyfavorite68

[Hrefn]

1 hour ago, Nerosmyfavorite68 said:

And I also think that's a post-reform radiate, not an Antoninianus.

It certainly looks like copper or bronze.  In fact the beautiful color was one of the qualities which attracted me to it.     I gathered the post-reform radiates had no silver at all.  

[Hrefn]

Searching for an unreduced follis of Maximianus, I saw this coin advertised:  RÖMISCHE KAISERZEIT Thessalonika Follis 298-299 Maximianus. First reign, AD 286-305. EF.   Lo, and behold, it is another coin of Galerius Valerius Maximianus, otherwise known as 
Galerius.  Since it is a huge 10.5 grams and rather handsome, and having just the unreduced radiate of Galerius pictured above, I bought it for my nascent Tetrarchy sub collection.

If the coin does date from 298-299 it would coincide with Galerius’ triumph over the Persians, with the capture of Narses’ wife, harem, and treasury.  

[Qcumbor]

Very intersting bust on that antoninianus @Nerosmyfavorite68. I like very much the rustic rendering of the shield.

Speaking of unreduced follis, I have a few of Maximianus' from different mints, showing differences in style, but all with his characteristic turned-up nose

Antioch, 10,78 gr :

 

Aquilea, 10,35 gr :

 

Lyon, 8,15 gr :

 

Serdica (abdication follis), 10,70 gr

 

Q

[Hrefn]

The cornucopia on my coin of my coin of Thessaloniki is rendered so schematically, as is the cloak with trailing edge, that it is difficult to appreciate what is intended without seeing @Qcumbor’s more realistic versions.  On the other hand, the artist threw a lot of drama into the contrapposto positioning!

[hotwheelsearl]

I have several Max tetradrachms, but only a couple imperial issues.

I like this one because it is the same size as the old denarius, and even has the laureate crown.

[Heliodromus]

4 hours ago, hotwheelsearl said:

I have several Max tetradrachms, but only a couple imperial issues.

I like this one because it is the same size as the old denarius, and even has the laureate crown.

This is an interesting issue (two issues actually). There are four members of the tetrarchy appearing on these, as one might expect (2 augusti, 2 caesars), who per the legends are Constantius I as augustus, Severus II and Maximinus II as caesars, and the guy on your coin "IMP C M A MAXIMIANVS PF AVG"....

The first three members are clearly 2nd tetrarchy, so one would therefore expect Galerius (as augustus) to be included too, especially as it is his mint issuing them, but instead we appear to get no Galerius (GAL VAL MAXIMIANVS) and instead Maximianus (M. A. MAXIMIANVS) from the 1st tetrarchy! ... except the portrait is ambiguous at best and looks more like Galerius than the jowly upturned-nose Maximianus!

I think the best conclusion here is that this is in fact Galerius, not Maximianus, and the mint (confused with the recent change in tetrarchic line-up) messed up the legend!

 

Edited May 30, 2023 by Heliodromus

[hotwheelsearl]

1 hour ago, Heliodromus said:

This is an interesting issue (two issues actually). There are four members of the tetrarchy appearing on these, as one might expect (2 augusti, 2 caesars), who per the legends are Constantius I as augustus, Severus II and Maximinus II as caesars, and the guy on your coin "IMP C M A MAXIMIANVS PF AVG"....

The first three members are clearly 2nd tetrarchy, so one would therefore expect Galerius to be included too, especially as it is his mint issuing them, but instead we appear to get no Galerius (GAL VAL MAXIMIANVS) and instead Maximianus (M. A. MAXIMIANVS) from the 1st tetrarchy! ... except the portrait is ambiguous at best and looks more like Galerius than the jowly upturned-nose Maximianus!

I think the best conclusion here is that this is in fact Galerius, not Maximianus, and the mint (confused with the recent change in tetrarchic line-up) messed up the legend!

 

Now THAT is an interesting bit of numismatic history!