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Savoca New Styles Prices achieved


NewStyleKing
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The NewStyle types  can essentially be taken as a whole.  The purchases do not appear to be targeting anything special. There, to my eyes, appears nothing special about them...the 3 charities type is not rare.  The condition is generally OK  but nothing spectacular.  rather run of the mill!  No interesting internal variations.  There is no rare type . No ,just over priced.  Luckily my collection of c 60 coins I built up in the good ol' days!

 

Maybe look at my collection for EF to poor condition,  for the common to spectacular rarities, yes there can be differences but as a whole the Saxoca coins don't have it!  I am always ready for newstyle talk!

Below, EF  only example in private hands

Fine...Roma, common place

Poor  Horse  but new control

 

Trident, cost less than the savoca example!  10x better

2_PALMS_ROMA_March_2019-removebg-preview.png

40_Roma-removebg-preview.png

16_Horse-removebg-preview.png

TRIDENT_BOTH-removebg-preview.png

Edited by NewStyleKing
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@NewStyleKing, since prices are high right now and your collection (as you remind us often!) isn't making much progress, perhaps you should sell and use those funds to start building a collection in a different area that you can get enthusiastic about and build new knowledge in.  Just a thought!  Though perhaps you're too attached to your current coins to bring yourself to do that.

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It's absolutely insane how high prices have become considering how abundant these coins are. I'm reminded by a video Aaron over at HJB did a few years ago when he recieved a consignment of 110 new style tets (all slabbed!) from a collector who had passed:

image.png.0c6799ce30eba63af70b6e3c2a9d0b39.png

It's definitely a fun series to collect with the immense amount of variety between issues. At present however they don't feel very viable for the every man to pursue...

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8 hours ago, NewStyleKing said:

The NewStyle types  can essentially be taken as a whole.  The purchases do not appear to be targeting anything special. There, to my eyes, appears nothing special about them...the 3 charities type is not rare.  The condition is generally OK  but nothing spectacular.  rather run of the mill!  No interesting internal variations.  There is no rare type . No ,just over priced.  Luckily my collection of c 60 coins I built up in the good ol' days!

 

Maybe look at my collection for EF to poor condition,  for the common to spectacular rarities, yes there can be differences but as a whole the Saxoca coins don't have it!  I am always ready for newstyle talk!

Below, EF  only example in private hands

Fine...Roma, common place

Poor  Horse  but new control

 

Trident, cost less than the savoca example!  10x better

2_PALMS_ROMA_March_2019-removebg-preview.png

40_Roma-removebg-preview.png

16_Horse-removebg-preview.png

TRIDENT_BOTH-removebg-preview.png

1st one is great, the others- sub-par to Savoca’s imho, $200 coins tops

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Oh yes I remember it now!  I bought the Griffin from it at a very reasonable price, by today's standards!  It was a strange collection,  Did HJB remove them from the plastic?  Or maybe it is another collection?

 

John

Edited by NewStyleKing
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Personally, I found the prices pretty much in line with what this type is going for.

It's one of several types that have gone up considerably in value lately. You may find it ridiculous that a coin you paid - say $100 for - not that long ago is selling for a shade under $1000, but that's the market.

Are they overvalued? We'll have to see in time. Right now, though, if you were to put your $100 coin in an auction you'd receive a similar $1000 price realized, so it isn't technically correct to say that they're not worth that much.

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I think the old rule that quality is number one applies to new style owls, as well as other ancient coins, and modern coins for that matter.  I agree that prices for the more commonly seen new style owls, in so-so grade, have increased recently.  But quality has never been cheap. 

I would certainly pay more for a common type in high grade, an attractive coin that catches the eye on first glance.  The quality of the new style owls vary greatly, and as with the classical transitional owls of the 5th century BC, where care was taken in die preparation, flan preparation and striking, so it is for new style owls.  At least that is my assessment based on a few decades of collecting.  

Things have been a bit scrappy with the auctions and coins that I wouldn't pay more than $250 for attain hammer prices in multiples of that value.  Perhaps, as Ian Anderson of Jethro Tull fame would say, I'm living in the past.  Time for a reality check I guess. 

Isn't interesting, that the Athenians, who produced such minimalist coinage for hundreds of years go to the other extreme with the new style coinage and cram more information on the reverse, resembling the warming message on the back of a prescription bottle?  The later examples are so packed that it is almost a certainty that some information would be off the flan, to say nothing of the surrounding wreath.

Regarding the Savoca coins, I'd say that the first one has a well struck obverse, at least portrait-wise.  The flan is somewhat crude and the reverse is off center but with a nice owl. The reverse month on the amphora is missing.  Would I bid 750 euros? No.  The commission would bump the final price to over $900 US.

The second coin is very well centered and the obverse portrait is appealing, as is the owl.  1,300 euros?  No, not for me, but perhaps that price would be acceptable to a committed collector of new style owls, which I am definitely not, being all over the map numismatically speaking.

The third coin for me has little appeal.  The obverse is mushy (worn die?) and the reverse is off center to a significant degree, but the owl is decent.  I would not have placed a bid for that particular example. 

Edited by robinjojo
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On 11/21/2022 at 2:08 PM, zadie said:

It's absolutely insane how high prices have become considering how abundant these coins are. I'm reminded by a video Aaron over at HJB did a few years ago when he recieved a consignment of 110 new style tets (all slabbed!) from a collector who had passed:

image.png.0c6799ce30eba63af70b6e3c2a9d0b39.png

It's definitely a fun series to collect with the immense amount of variety between issues. At present however they don't feel very viable for the every man to pursue...

Can we see more detailed pictures of each coin? Thanks

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19 minutes ago, El Cazador said:

Can we see more detailed pictures of each coin? Thanks

Sorry! That I can't do. However, I've done the next best thing and uploaded the video in it's entirety here: 

 

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Is it HJB bid or but 208? 5th September 2019?

Then yes I did buy the Griffin from HJB.

It seemed a very strange collection  with no obvious rhyme or reason. And I cannot remember whose collection it was?  What happened to the plastic holders?  I cannot remember getting a plastic holder with the griffin.  Amazing I cannot remember anymore!

Ex CNG E249, 9 February 2011, lot 114.

 

 

Athens CNG GRIFFIN 2011.jpg

Edited by NewStyleKing
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3 hours ago, NewStyleKing said:

Is it HJB bid or but 208? 5th September 2019?

Then yes I did buy the Griffin from HJB.

It seemed a very strange collection  with no obvious rhyme or reason. And I cannot remember whose collection it was?  What happened to the plastic holders?  I cannot remember getting a plastic holder with the griffin.  Amazing I cannot remember anymore!

Ex CNG E249, 9 February 2011, lot 114.

 

 

Athens CNG GRIFFIN 2011.jpg

Seems reasonable yeah. Aaron uploaded the video in May of 2019 and HJB's turnaround time might be a bit longer than other firms. He mentioned that he'd remove them from the plastic holders so I can imagine they were just discarded afterwards.

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3 hours ago, NewStyleKing said:

It seemed a very strange collection  with no obvious rhyme or reason. And I cannot remember whose collection it was?  What happened to the plastic holders?  I cannot remember getting a plastic holder with the griffin.  Amazing I cannot remember anymore!

image.png.f69a91908f76c16cc8d72c70c6b80c07.png

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Oh yes!.  But did he ever write about them?  I see he had a few Nikogenes's  coins...Hermes/No sign. A fascinating coin type in the midst of the political turbulent Rome Pontic times  for Athens and the NewStyles.

Poor old Hermes seems to have been erased ( why?), in some ( he had an example, and totally missed off some dies  and then replaced with a   3rd magistrate!  This is still one of my target coins!

 

Failing to write about one's coins seems to be a common failing amongst coin collectors  and coin collecting/s is the right name for them...a magpie need to own not not discuss!

He also seemed to "collect" say, Headdress of Iset, and had Jorge Mullers example of an intercalary example, which jorge was going to use for a re-ordering of the NewStyle coinage based on intercalary dates.....It never appeared , so it probably was less feasible than appeared. BUT I like his re-dating of the Cistophoric coins of Ephesos very much!

 

Any ideas anyone?

 

Hermes 

Hermes erased

Hermes eliminated

Hermes NO symbo, 94 BC den of antiquity.jpg

Hermes erased die CNG.jpg

Pars Nikogenes Kallimachos NO SYMBOL 94 BC.jpg

Who thinks NewStyles are boring?  Lots and lots do I know.

Edited by NewStyleKing
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58 minutes ago, NewStyleKing said:

Failing to write about one's coins seems to be a common failing amongst coin collectors  and coin collecting/s is the right name for them...a magpie need to own not not discuss!

Not everyone has the time. To what level must one write about their coins anyhow? Do they need to publish in a journal or is it sufficient if they put to paper their stream of consciousness about a coin and upload it somewhere publicly available?

I wouldn't have thought it needs to be publicly available but you also don't want to be called out for not writing about your collection.

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Again what is coin collecting about then but just collecting. It's too shallow for me. What use is it?  Oh yes we have one of those...pointing to a gold Eid Mar in a box. Maybe i'll put a hole in it and put it around the cats neck?  Maybe uncle count von Hans won it at a fair sometime.........................Sold at Roma £2.5 MILLION pounds, proclaimed genuine and origin unknown! All it did was get the auctioneers to do more research on the silver types  and the very few other gold types ( some seen as iffy!)  and that is that. But without convincing research what is it? A curiosity in a vacuum. That's coin collecting for you!

What is time? We know not the hour nor the day.......

The level of research...curiosity is a good start.

Collecting is depriving knowledge...Museo Chieti Italy.

See what I did? I looked at his collection, noticed the Hermes coin(s) maybe noticed that he knew something(?) and expanded on it, and and if I could see this it was only I could see further standing on the shoulders of others!

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47 minutes ago, NewStyleKing said:

Again what is coin collecting about then but just collecting. It's too shallow for me. What use is it?  Oh yes we have one of those...pointing to a gold Eid Mar in a box. Maybe i'll put a hole in it and put it around the cats neck?  Maybe uncle count von Hans won it at a fair sometime.........................Sold at Roma £2.5 MILLION pounds, proclaimed genuine and origin unknown! All it did was get the auctioneers to do more research on the silver types  and the very few other gold types ( some seen as iffy!)  and that is that. But without convincing research what is it? A curiosity in a vacuum. That's coin collecting for you!

What is time? We know not the hour nor the day.......

The level of research...curiosity is a good start.

Collecting is depriving knowledge...Museo Chieti Italy.

See what I did? I looked at his collection, noticed the Hermes coin(s) maybe noticed that he knew something(?) and expanded on it, and and if I could see this it was only I could see further standing on the shoulders of others!

My point was that the lack of someone's publicly available writing on coins in their collection is not a reflection on what they have written about their coins.....some people don't like to make their writing public! It's also not a reflection of the research they may do on the coins in their collection (we all probably do a little bit of research but it varies).....so why do you make the assumption that if you can't find writing by someone about their collection that they only collect coins to put them in a little tray and hide them away from everyone? Not everyone has the time, energy, or desire to write genuinely interesting pieces about their coins that further the knowledge or understanding of those coins! Only so little time in a day, that's life! Not to mention that there's a lot of writing on coins out there that is not useful for anybody.....whether because it gets things wrong or because it's difficult to read and understand!

What is research? Is it some scribbled argument self-published online or a properly constructed and peer-reviewed original piece of work providing insight on a topic published in some reputable outlet?

What is curiosity? Is it the publicly available accounting of one's research, understanding, and insight of a coin, or can it be one's personal journey from purchasing a coin, to researching and attributing it, and beyond?

Ok, sarcasm over. I think I know who you really are thinking of when you share your frustrations about "collectors" who only collect. It's the Museo Chieti Italy types (apparently), the rich collectors who buy an important coin and forget about it in their safety deposit box, the types who have no interest in potentially helping other collectors because they're not really interested in numismatics, only old and shiny metal objects that are potentially worth a lot of money. The problem is you're frequently all over the place in your writing and (inadvertently?) make generalizations about a large portion of collectors in this hobby when you probably only mean to speak of the aforementioned "types" of collectors.

Perhaps you do mean to target everyone who hasn't setup their own academia.edu page when talking about the uncurious, shallow, and greedy collectors depriving others of knowledge. I honestly can't tell, just giving the benefit of the doubt.

Edited by Kaleun96
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