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Identical Coins in Different Auctions?


Harry G
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Hi all!

I saw this posted on the r/AncientCoins subreddit, and thought I'd post it here for those of you that aren't on Reddit.

There are two rather nice tetradrachms from Pamphylia, Side currently listed on Numismad and Bucephalus in their biddr auctions. However, the coins appear to be almost identical - the same trace amounts of deposits, flan shape, wear etc. The only difference I can see is a scratch on the Numismad coin that isn't on the Bucephalus coin (beneath ΔH at around 7 o clock on the reverse)

Both auctions are currently live.

Numismad:

3426070_1666880639.jpg

Bucephalus:

3423541_1666855361.jpg

https://www.biddr.com/auctions/numismad/browse?a=3030&l=3426070

https://www.biddr.com/auctions/bucephalusnumismatic/browse?a=3028&l=3423541

 

I won't pretend to be an expert in Greek coins, but this seems more than a little odd. They look genuine to my amateur eyes, and I can't see why any forger would work so hard to make the coins completely identical. It may be possible that somehow both auction houses "have" (or have permission to sell) this coin (even though they are based in Poland and Belgium), with the Bucephalus listing is modified to remove the scratch on the reverse.

Any thoughts on this?

Credit to the original Reddit post:

https://www.reddit.com/r/AncientCoins/comments/yimyaj/same_coin_different_auctions/

Any thoughts on this?

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I don't see anything that would suggest the listed coins are fakes, so I'm thinking that somehow the same coin was listed by two simultaneous sales. 

There's no doubt in my mind that the coins are the same. 

I would go even further and venture a guess that the photos are the same.  It is possible in an application such as Photoshop to manipulate the levels of lighting and contrast.  

Edited by robinjojo
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Same coin. Probably sold by two incarnations of the same dodgy firm. They'll take the best result and sadly apologize to the winner at the other site: "We regret that the coin in question cannot presently be located. We continue to diligently search for it and will promptly notify you if we are able to ascertain its whereabouts." (Translation: "It's yours!... if the winner in our other auction reneges.")

Edited by Phil Davis
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The scratches indicate this is the same coin.

Perhaps the two auction houses are related and accidentally took photos of the same coin twice? It would seem a considerable effort to reproduce a coin even with the scratches intact. My guess is the coin is real, but somehow two auction houses posted it.

I've never done business with Numismad, though I did buy a few coins from Bucephalus recently. My experience was positive with them, but I must admit that this makes me pause on future purchases.

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I clicked Report error but I might have foolishly used the Close button after writing the comment, if you didn't receive the report. Apologies, it was after 1 AM here and I was more than half asleep.

BTW @SimonW- really appreciate your quick intervention on the thread. This proves Biddr does not tolerate things like this.

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Thank you, @ambr0zie, that explains it. I already started to search the trash and spam folders as I thought we may have missed your message 🙂

Please note that the "Report error" form will send your message to the auction house. If you would like to reach out to us, please use the contact form instead.

 

28 minutes ago, ambr0zie said:

BTW @SimonW- really appreciate your quick intervention on the thread. This proves Biddr does not tolerate things like this.

A responsible and trustworthy environment is of particular importance to us. We, thus, always try to resolve issues like this as quickly as possible.

Edited by SimonW
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Apologies, I am a technical person but I was sleepwalking ... or sleeptyping (I suffer from insomnia about 5 days a week and when I feel I'm sleepy this is quite a major event and I just crawl to bed).

It's good to know that the Report error submits the comment to the auction house. I wanted to contact Biddr of course so I will know for future situation and use the Contact form in the main Biddr interface.

I am curious (and I am sure other users are) - I think there are 2 possibilities here

- the consignor wants to sell his coin in 2 places - but this means at least one of the houses does not have the coin physically

- one of the houses is acting fishy.

So I might be wrong in my first assumption (2 houses to be avoided) and one of the houses is honest and they have no idea about what happens in the background.

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I was told that the coin was first with Bucephalus were a picture was taken and added to the next auction file. The consignor, however, then decided to consign it to Numismad and Bucephalus forgot to remove the coin from their auction file. They have now removed the coin.

Edited by SimonW
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50 minutes ago, SimonW said:

Both Numismad and Bucephalus have been very responsibly in the past. I am sure there's a simple explanation to it. I'll let you know as soon as I hear back from them.

That’s correct - I have only good experience with Bucephalus. I think it was only a mistake - mistakes not fine - but mistake happens. It's good to raise the issue, but I don't think there's any intention behind it.

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7 minutes ago, ambr0zie said:

It's good this was spotted and rectified quickly.

I wouldn't want to win a coin, especially if it's a major target, and then to be informed that in fact the coin cannot be shipped.

Especially if you could’ve bought it in another auction happening at the same time, but missed it because of your other ‘win’ 🤦‍♂️

Edited by John Conduitt
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