Harry G Posted October 31, 2022 · Member Share Posted October 31, 2022 Hi all! I saw this posted on the r/AncientCoins subreddit, and thought I'd post it here for those of you that aren't on Reddit. There are two rather nice tetradrachms from Pamphylia, Side currently listed on Numismad and Bucephalus in their biddr auctions. However, the coins appear to be almost identical - the same trace amounts of deposits, flan shape, wear etc. The only difference I can see is a scratch on the Numismad coin that isn't on the Bucephalus coin (beneath ΔH at around 7 o clock on the reverse) Both auctions are currently live. Numismad: Bucephalus: https://www.biddr.com/auctions/numismad/browse?a=3030&l=3426070 https://www.biddr.com/auctions/bucephalusnumismatic/browse?a=3028&l=3423541 I won't pretend to be an expert in Greek coins, but this seems more than a little odd. They look genuine to my amateur eyes, and I can't see why any forger would work so hard to make the coins completely identical. It may be possible that somehow both auction houses "have" (or have permission to sell) this coin (even though they are based in Poland and Belgium), with the Bucephalus listing is modified to remove the scratch on the reverse. Any thoughts on this? Credit to the original Reddit post: https://www.reddit.com/r/AncientCoins/comments/yimyaj/same_coin_different_auctions/ Any thoughts on this? 5 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benefactor robinjojo Posted October 31, 2022 · Benefactor Benefactor Share Posted October 31, 2022 (edited) I don't see anything that would suggest the listed coins are fakes, so I'm thinking that somehow the same coin was listed by two simultaneous sales. There's no doubt in my mind that the coins are the same. I would go even further and venture a guess that the photos are the same. It is possible in an application such as Photoshop to manipulate the levels of lighting and contrast. Edited October 31, 2022 by robinjojo 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benefactor DonnaML Posted October 31, 2022 · Benefactor Benefactor Share Posted October 31, 2022 Definitely the same coin. Look at the other scratches directly below the top part of the wing in both photos. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benefactor Phil Davis Posted October 31, 2022 · Benefactor Benefactor Share Posted October 31, 2022 (edited) Same coin. Probably sold by two incarnations of the same dodgy firm. They'll take the best result and sadly apologize to the winner at the other site: "We regret that the coin in question cannot presently be located. We continue to diligently search for it and will promptly notify you if we are able to ascertain its whereabouts." (Translation: "It's yours!... if the winner in our other auction reneges.") Edited October 31, 2022 by Phil Davis 6 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ambr0zie Posted October 31, 2022 · Member Share Posted October 31, 2022 Clearly same coin. Pictures poorly altered (changing brightness and contrast). Conclusion - 2 auction houses to be avoided. I would recommend reporting this situation to Biddr. I did. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benefactor kirispupis Posted October 31, 2022 · Benefactor Benefactor Share Posted October 31, 2022 The scratches indicate this is the same coin. Perhaps the two auction houses are related and accidentally took photos of the same coin twice? It would seem a considerable effort to reproduce a coin even with the scratches intact. My guess is the coin is real, but somehow two auction houses posted it. I've never done business with Numismad, though I did buy a few coins from Bucephalus recently. My experience was positive with them, but I must admit that this makes me pause on future purchases. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimonW Posted November 1, 2022 · Member Share Posted November 1, 2022 Thank you for bringing this up @Harry G. We will look into it. @ambr0zie, did you send an email or contact us through the web form? We haven't received any message regarding this so far. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ambr0zie Posted November 1, 2022 · Member Share Posted November 1, 2022 I clicked Report error but I might have foolishly used the Close button after writing the comment, if you didn't receive the report. Apologies, it was after 1 AM here and I was more than half asleep. BTW @SimonW- really appreciate your quick intervention on the thread. This proves Biddr does not tolerate things like this. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimonW Posted November 1, 2022 · Member Share Posted November 1, 2022 (edited) Thank you, @ambr0zie, that explains it. I already started to search the trash and spam folders as I thought we may have missed your message 🙂 Please note that the "Report error" form will send your message to the auction house. If you would like to reach out to us, please use the contact form instead. 28 minutes ago, ambr0zie said: BTW @SimonW- really appreciate your quick intervention on the thread. This proves Biddr does not tolerate things like this. A responsible and trustworthy environment is of particular importance to us. We, thus, always try to resolve issues like this as quickly as possible. Edited November 1, 2022 by SimonW 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ambr0zie Posted November 1, 2022 · Member Share Posted November 1, 2022 Apologies, I am a technical person but I was sleepwalking ... or sleeptyping (I suffer from insomnia about 5 days a week and when I feel I'm sleepy this is quite a major event and I just crawl to bed). It's good to know that the Report error submits the comment to the auction house. I wanted to contact Biddr of course so I will know for future situation and use the Contact form in the main Biddr interface. I am curious (and I am sure other users are) - I think there are 2 possibilities here - the consignor wants to sell his coin in 2 places - but this means at least one of the houses does not have the coin physically - one of the houses is acting fishy. So I might be wrong in my first assumption (2 houses to be avoided) and one of the houses is honest and they have no idea about what happens in the background. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimonW Posted November 1, 2022 · Member Share Posted November 1, 2022 Both Numismad and Bucephalus have been very responsibly in the past. I am sure there's a simple explanation to it. I'll let you know as soon as I hear back from them. 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimonW Posted November 1, 2022 · Member Share Posted November 1, 2022 (edited) I was told that the coin was first with Bucephalus were a picture was taken and added to the next auction file. The consignor, however, then decided to consign it to Numismad and Bucephalus forgot to remove the coin from their auction file. They have now removed the coin. Edited November 1, 2022 by SimonW 8 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prieure de Sion Posted November 1, 2022 · Member Share Posted November 1, 2022 50 minutes ago, SimonW said: Both Numismad and Bucephalus have been very responsibly in the past. I am sure there's a simple explanation to it. I'll let you know as soon as I hear back from them. That’s correct - I have only good experience with Bucephalus. I think it was only a mistake - mistakes not fine - but mistake happens. It's good to raise the issue, but I don't think there's any intention behind it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ambr0zie Posted November 1, 2022 · Member Share Posted November 1, 2022 It's good this was spotted and rectified quickly. I wouldn't want to win a coin, especially if it's a major target, and then to be informed that in fact the coin cannot be shipped. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Conduitt Posted November 1, 2022 · Supporter Share Posted November 1, 2022 (edited) 7 minutes ago, ambr0zie said: It's good this was spotted and rectified quickly. I wouldn't want to win a coin, especially if it's a major target, and then to be informed that in fact the coin cannot be shipped. Especially if you could’ve bought it in another auction happening at the same time, but missed it because of your other ‘win’ 🤦♂️ Edited November 1, 2022 by John Conduitt 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ambr0zie Posted November 1, 2022 · Member Share Posted November 1, 2022 Or even worse - buy both. Think about the disappointment - oh look, I bough a double die match, how cool is that, and from different houses, what a coincidence! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prieure de Sion Posted November 1, 2022 · Member Share Posted November 1, 2022 ...I always wanted to bid against myself. Now the opportunity is here! 🥴 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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