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Would you spot this forgery?


Romismatist

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Fellow Roman Republican enthusiasts,

I came across this coin being sold on EBay as a forgery and thought it worth posting here. I would likely have accepted this as genuine based on the style and patina. How many of you can honestly say that you would have picked this out as a forgery? Caveat emptor...

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For about 1 1/2 year, at least LANZ advertise them as « forgeries ». He sold dozens of them every month, and guess where they will end up at last ?

https://www.ebay.ca/sch/m.html?_ssn=numismatiklanz&_osacat=0&_trkparms=folent%3Anumismatiklanz|folenttp%3A1&_odkw=&_from=R40&_trksid=p2046732.m570.l1313&_nkw=forgery&_sacat=0
 

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At first glance, I would have been fooled. I don't know, if I were to study the photos more carefully, if I would have been fooled. Maybe. The coin has a lot of dirt or toning, or perhaps fake toning, which could be hiding signs of being a fake. Perhaps the edge has a casting seam. Or, perhaps the edge has file marks, which are designed to erase a casting seam. But, one can't usually see much of the edge, on photos of the obverse and reverse.

For myself, I would prefer, that people not sell fakes, even if they advertise the coin as being fake (for example Lanz, and  Frank Robinson). Someone may buy the fake, and then try to sell it, pretending that it's authentic. In my opinion, there are enough fakes out there, without someone trying to sell more of them.

Edited by sand
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6 hours ago, sand said:

For myself, I would prefer, that people not sell fakes, even if they advertise the coin as being fake (for example Lanz, and  Frank Robinson). Someone may buy the fake, and then try to sell it, pretending that it's authentic. In my opinion, there are enough fakes out there, without someone trying to sell more of them.

+100. I think any serious house/dealer should stop this nonsense. If one sells a forgery (described as "for study" or whatever) who stops the new owner to sell it as authentic? Just an example from a recent auction - I am considering if I want to buy from them in the future or not.

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I don't see a valid reason for manufacturing and selling these - except deceive. If this type of object is needed (although one can study a type based on quality pictures of genuine examples) I think these should be CLEARLY MARKED.

The OP coin -  I would have considered it perfectly genuine (and this indicates I have a problem with these).

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10 hours ago, Ocatarinetabellatchitchix said:

For about 1 1/2 year, at least LANZ advertise them as « forgeries ». He sold dozens of them every month, and guess where they will end up at last ?

https://www.ebay.ca/sch/m.html?_ssn=numismatiklanz&_osacat=0&_trkparms=folent%3Anumismatiklanz|folenttp%3A1&_odkw=&_from=R40&_trksid=p2046732.m570.l1313&_nkw=forgery&_sacat=0
 

That's a shocking amount of forgeries 😮! I wonder how man of those coins are now sitting in collections & considered genuine 🤔?

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Agree with all replies. I'm not comfortable with dealers or anyone else for that matter selling fakes... because they invariably end up being sold by someone unscrupulous down the road as the "real thing" and wind up in people's collections. If I see one fake in a seller's lot, I tend to avoid that seller completely... who's not to say that the other coins are fakes as well? I cringe when I see some of the cruder fakes being sold on EBay actually getting offers... for each one of those, someone is getting ripped off, sometimes to the tune of several hundred dollars. I do wish that EBay would take a stronger line on fakes - they used to, and I spent a lot of time in the past reporting fakes and actually getting communication in return from EBay, but currently it's more than a little overwhelming and I think that EBay has given up on this approach as well. Whether EBay sells a real or fake coin, they still make money in the end, and I guess that's all that matters to them. It just makes hunting for that bargain that much riskier these days, although I still believe that with some scrutiny, good deals on genuine coins are still around to be had.  

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  • 3 months later...
On 10/1/2022 at 9:30 PM, Romismatist said:

Agree with all replies. I'm not comfortable with dealers or anyone else for that matter selling fakes... because they invariably end up being sold by someone unscrupulous down the road as the "real thing" and wind up in people's collections. If I see one fake in a seller's lot, I tend to avoid that seller completely... who's not to say that the other coins are fakes as well? I cringe when I see some of the cruder fakes being sold on EBay actually getting offers... for each one of those, someone is getting ripped off, sometimes to the tune of several hundred dollars. I do wish that EBay would take a stronger line on fakes - they used to, and I spent a lot of time in the past reporting fakes and actually getting communication in return from EBay, but currently it's more than a little overwhelming and I think that EBay has given up on this approach as well. Whether EBay sells a real or fake coin, they still make money in the end, and I guess that's all that matters to them. It just makes hunting for that bargain that much riskier these days, although I still believe that with some scrutiny, good deals on genuine coins are still around to be had.  

  I totally agree. I believe if a coin is not stamped fake of forgery right on its flan, it has no place in a reputable dealer's inventory. A fake coin, even sold as such, will almost certainly appear one day on the open market minus the word "forgery". I don't really care if it is a Becker's forgery or a cheap junky one - a reputable dealer should take a hammer to it and make it a slug.

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What about these "gems"

image.png.54c6c0172788062aada6febfc1ca2ae7.png

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Noticed this in an upcoming auction in a "special" category if items i personally don't want to see - Replica. 

I would have no doubts about these - perhaps just the Trajan seems funny because of the letters style, but I noticed this only after I saw it as Replica. So I have a problem as these forgeries don't raise any red flags to me. Discouraging. 

After the house was notified that selling these is not a good practice, they removed the whole category - and deleted the pictures. I might be paranoid, but I think nothing stops anybody from selling the exact same objects later. I saved 3 pictures because I wanted to discuss with a specialist to explain me how can I detect those. The entire "replicas" album is now lost after removing them from the auction 

Another thing that made me very cautious, to the point that I will not buy anything from this house, was that some various coins listed as genuine in the same auction were also removed. Same method - removing the picture and the text. Funny thing - I saved 2 "genuine" coins in my watch list - I probably found them interesting and I intended to buy them, but now I have no idea what they actually were. Now I see this 

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There is always the possibility that a genuine coin was removed for various reasons, not mandatory for authenticity issues, but ...

I am not under the impression that the market is flooded with forgeries, but I am worried because I like coins in less than stellar condition and I buy them regularly. Seeing these "replicas" that are corroded/cleaned/with patina stripped makes me less eager to buy coins, generally speaking. 

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